World of Wong Kar Wai

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pistolwink
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Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1076 Post by pistolwink » Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:34 pm

Who Ever Thought [x] Would Be a Good Idea: The Later Work of Wong Kar-Wai

(I liked The Grandmaster a lot)

FilmSnob
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:36 pm

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1077 Post by FilmSnob » Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:47 am

I'm working my way through right now. Have seen both In the Mood for Love and 2046 previously, two of my favorite films.

As Tears Go By
Not exactly a great movie but decent enough for a debut I think.

Chungking Express
Wonderful. Really glad I watched this after ITML and 2046 because it's kinda like a happy ending.

I watched the original (now "alternate") version first, then tried to watch Wong's "new and improved" version a few days later; but after a few color blunders, i skipped ahead to the ending and something as simple as the altered credit sequence made me immediately turn off the movie and vow never again!

Days of Being Wild
Fallen Angels

Absolutely hated these films and reserve for them my lowest arthouse rating.

Still looking forward to The Grandmaster but I guess that's an individual release on its own.

shiftyeyes
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:51 pm

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1078 Post by shiftyeyes » Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:36 pm

I love Days of Being Wild, one of my favorites of Wong's films. It has a very evocative (if not reckless) desire for love and belonging that I find rather moving. Leslie Cheung's character is a cad, but I've grown to find him more and more sympathetic. I recommend pairing it with Ashes of Time, which is sort of Wong's period martial arts remix with much of the same cast.

I also dislike Fallen Angels though (but it has its moments).

RIP Film
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:53 pm

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1079 Post by RIP Film » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:01 pm

Has the ending of Days of Being Wild been discussed, specifically the final shot? I watched the restoration after not having seen it for a decade, and my feeling on the ending remains the same. That Tony Leung’s character represents a subsumption of Yuddy and Tide, that the struggles of these two characters find closure metaphysically in Leung.

The film is still beautiful as ever, and I even find the lucky charms color grading fitting— though obviously more nuance like on the Mega-Star release would have been preferred. The heavy greens definitely mute the pale blues and reds that gave it its 60s setting, it exists more out of time on the Criterion release.

Nw_jahrles
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Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1080 Post by Nw_jahrles » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:35 pm

RIP Film wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:01 pm
Has the ending of Days of Being Wild been discussed, specifically the final shot? I watched the restoration after not having seen it for a decade, and my feeling on the ending remains the same. That Tony Leung’s character represents a subsumption of Yuddy and Tide, that the struggles of these two characters find closure metaphysically in Leung.

The film is still beautiful as ever, and I even find the lucky charms color grading fitting— though obviously more nuance like on the Mega-Star release would have been preferred. The heavy greens definitely mute the pale blues and reds that gave it its 60s setting, it exists more out of time on the Criterion release.
Here is a blog post David Bordwell wrote on the film, including discussing various possibilities for the ending. I think the thing to keep in mind is that Wong is constantly editing his movies (and not just the box-set). The Grandmaster had alternate cuts for different territories for example.

http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/2008/ ... g-obscure/

Hope it helps!

FilmSnob
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Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1081 Post by FilmSnob » Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:39 pm

shiftyeyes wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:36 pm
I also dislike Fallen Angels though (but it has its moments).
It had exactly one moment for me: Michelle Ries having sex with a jukebox and orgasming on screen.
Everything else was pretentious. Did it serve as inspiration for The Matrix? (which is a good flick btw)

I know Fallen Angels is rated in the top 250 on Letterboxd but I just don't get it.

shiftyeyes
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:51 pm

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1082 Post by shiftyeyes » Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:13 pm

RIP Film wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:01 pm
Has the ending of Days of Being Wild been discussed, specifically the final shot? I watched the restoration after not having seen it for a decade, and my feeling on the ending remains the same. That Tony Leung’s character represents a subsumption of Yuddy and Tide, that the struggles of these two characters find closure metaphysically in Leung.
I'm interested to know if Wong has ever confirmed if Leung at the end of Days of Being Wild is supposed to be Mr. Chow in In the Mood for Love and 2046. It'd be easy to retcon him into Mr. Chow but I haven't seen anything that suggests that's Wong's intent. Mostly I've just seen Doyle comment that he was meant to be a different character that would've been used in a cancelled sequel, and I believe the packaging reiterates this.

I'm not a Cantonese speaker, but is there anything in the dialogue in ITMFL that confirms that Maggie Cheung's character is supposed be the same character from Days? The subtitles just refer to her by her married name, and yet people are rather definitive about them being the same character even if I think the timeline is a bit off and they're played very differently. Of course there's 2046 which seems to state some of the connections to Days and ITMFL rather clearly, but I'm sure people already knew they were the same character before 2046 was released. And yet over never seen anything official that suggests that's Mr. Chow in Days of Being Wild.

shiftyeyes
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Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1083 Post by shiftyeyes » Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:19 pm

FilmSnob wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:39 pm
shiftyeyes wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:36 pm
I also dislike Fallen Angels though (but it has its moments).
It had exactly one moment for me: Michelle Ries having sex with a jukebox and orgasming on screen.
Everything else was pretentious. Did it serve as inspiration for The Matrix? (which is a good flick btw)

I know Fallen Angels is rated in the top 250 on Letterboxd but I just don't get it.
I certainly don't mind Ms. Reis, but my favorite parts are probably the stuff with Takeshi Kineshiro's dad which is quite moving and the ending with the a capella version of "Only You". Everything else is a manic mess that's trying too hard to be cool and edgy (especially Leon Lai). Kaneshiro is basically the male version of Faye Wong from Chungking Express, but far less charming. He's the manic psychotic dreamboy. Also playing the weird mirror version of his character from Chungking? What's up with that?

RIP Film
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Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1084 Post by RIP Film » Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:52 pm

shiftyeyes wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:13 pm
I'm interested to know if Wong has ever confirmed if Leung at the end of Days of Being Wild is supposed to be Mr. Chow in In the Mood for Love and 2046. It'd be easy to retcon him into Mr. Chow but I haven't seen anything that suggests that's Wong's intent. Mostly I've just seen Doyle comment that he was meant to be a different character that would've been used in a cancelled sequel, and I believe the packaging reiterates this.
I understand the question but for me directorial intent is too much of a slippery affair with WKW, a guy who edits his films a hundred times and is still tinkering with them thirty years later. That amorphous quality that makes his work so enigmatic is also seemingly what drives him to never finish them. Identity is such a loose concept between his films as it is, I just find his work to open up more when allowed to be viewed on its terms (apart from the meaningful connection between In the Mood for Love and 2046.)

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The Fanciful Norwegian
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Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1085 Post by The Fanciful Norwegian » Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:49 pm

shiftyeyes wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:13 pm
I'm not a Cantonese speaker, but is there anything in the dialogue in ITMFL that confirms that Maggie Cheung's character is supposed be the same character from Days? The subtitles just refer to her by her married name, and yet people are rather definitive about them being the same character even if I think the timeline is a bit off and they're played very differently. Of course there's 2046 which seems to state some of the connections to Days and ITMFL rather clearly, but I'm sure people already knew they were the same character before 2046 was released. And yet over never seen anything official that suggests that's Mr. Chow in Days of Being Wild.
In the original dialogue there are two instances where Cheung's character is referred to by the surname "Su," both of them when she's making phone calls on behalf of her boss and introduces herself as "Secretary Su" (Sou beisyu). Her given name is never used.

As for Leung's character(s), he has no name in Days of Being Wild, and if Wong already intended them to be the same character while he was making In the Mood for Love, he forgot to tell Leung (who said at the time that he didn't think there was any relationship). But 2046 is so frequent and direct with its references to Days of Being Wild—bringing back Carina Lau as a woman named Lulu/Mimi who was once in love with a deceased Chinese Filipino man, reprising the "bird without feet" story, giving Chow the gambling and combing habits of the man at the end of Days—that I imagine Wong decided at some point to make the link explicit and take it further than a single recycled name. (There is the deleted scene from In the Mood for Love set in the 1970s where Chow has a wife/girlfriend named "Lulu" played by Carina Lau, but that doesn't make clear whether Wong had already decided Chow was also a carryover from Days.)

But I agree with RIP Film that Wong's treatment of this sort of thing is too fluid to pin down—as shiftyeyes alluded above, Kaneshiro's character in Fallen Angels inherits multiple traits from Cop 223 in Chungking Express, including his name, even though they can't possibly be the same character given that in Fallen Angels he's been mute since age five. And while I love 2046, the Days of Being Wild links are the least interesting thing about it to me.

shiftyeyes
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:51 pm

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1086 Post by shiftyeyes » Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:01 am

Thanks for the information! The connection between Days of Being Wild and In the Mood for Love always seemed a bit tenuous to me. But 2046 is definitely a sequel to both. I still enjoy watching them as something of a trilogy though.

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feihong
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Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1087 Post by feihong » Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:41 am

At the time of release Wong was usually very tenuous talking about these relationships in most interviews. He certainly wasn't trying to build a "cinematic universe" with these characters, connecting them by plot from one film to another, but rather, he seemed to have a postmodern approach to the writing of his stories, where characters echoed and sometimes inverted characters from previous films. So the idea of one film building narrative upon on another rarely entered the conversation about the films. I always got the impression when he did talk about it he was referring to the inspiration for characters, rather than plot connections between the different movies. Like he was basing a character upon a kind of inverted idea of a character from a previous film––as in Takeshi's kind of inverted cop/outlaw roles between Chungking Express and Fallen Angels.

shiftyeyes
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Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1088 Post by shiftyeyes » Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:52 am

I think those are good ways to look at it. And seems to fit the "informal trilogy" line that gets used to describe those three films. Also helps those who were disappointed with Mr. Chow's character turn from ITMFL to 2046. Less the same person and more a character that shares the same name and a similar backstory.

trobrianders
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Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1089 Post by trobrianders » Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:36 am

Does anyone have any thoughts on the huge price discrepancy between the UK and and US editions currenly at amazon uk?
uk edition £150
US edition £85

Also wondering if the UK edition has its artwork spoiled by intrusive age recommendation symbols.

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tenia
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Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1090 Post by tenia » Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:30 pm

Their UK non-standard releases are almost always more expensive than the US equivalent. See for instance any digipack, sold at the usual price in the US but a specific higher price in the UK (usually £24.99 instead of £17.99).

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yoloswegmaster
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Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1091 Post by yoloswegmaster » Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:57 pm

Koch will be releasing 'As Tears Go By' and 'Days of Being Wild' on 4K, though I doubt there will be English subs.

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omegadirective
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Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1092 Post by omegadirective » Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:46 pm

This is a pretty long thread to go through... but did anyone have any issues with their discs in this set?
I just got this set and popped in In the Mood For Love, and it freezes on two different blu ray players at two different times, and the first section of deleted scenes wont play on both players either.

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willoneill
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Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1093 Post by willoneill » Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:12 pm

omegadirective wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:46 pm
This is a pretty long thread to go through... but did anyone have any issues with their discs in this set?
I just got this set and popped in In the Mood For Love, and it freezes on two different blu ray players at two different times, and the first section of deleted scenes wont play on both players either.
Yes Days of Being Wild and another disc I can't recall froze up from my set. I had no issues with special features though.

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omegadirective
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Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1094 Post by omegadirective » Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:33 pm

willoneill wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:12 pm
omegadirective wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:46 pm
This is a pretty long thread to go through... but did anyone have any issues with their discs in this set?
I just got this set and popped in In the Mood For Love, and it freezes on two different blu ray players at two different times, and the first section of deleted scenes wont play on both players either.
Yes Days of Being Wild and another disc I can't recall froze up from my set. I had no issues with special features though.
Did you get replacement discs from criterion?

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willoneill
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Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1095 Post by willoneill » Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:04 pm

Honestly, I haven't even written to them. I guess I should. Probably also should have taken notes about which discs they were.

Are they offering replacement discs?

trobrianders
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:18 pm

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1096 Post by trobrianders » Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:43 pm

tenia wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:30 pm
Their UK non-standard releases are almost always more expensive than the US equivalent. See for instance any digipack, sold at the usual price in the US but a specific higher price in the UK (usually £24.99 instead of £17.99).
Actually it's the UK standard releases that are considerably cheaper than their US counterparts. Their non-standard releases are normally closer in price to their US counterparts. But I take your point. Still in the case of WKW it's a pretty huge gap. I'll be getting the US edition in any case though the UK price will probably drop hugely at the next round of sales.

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omegadirective
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Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1097 Post by omegadirective » Wed Feb 02, 2022 12:55 pm

I got an email response from criterion:


2) We’ve recently confirmed that select Region A (for US/Canada) copies of WORLD OF WONG KAR WAI include discs with manufacturing defects that result in some of the discs freezing and pixelating between 1 hour to 1 hour 20 minutes into the films.

We'd be happy to send you replacement discs free of charge. The discs have been tested extensively and are error-free, so even if your playback issues were limited to a select player or gaming console, the replacements should now work for you.

To minimize the need for multiple shipments, by default we will send you the following 6 replacement discs:

DAYS OF BEING WILD

CHUNGKING EXPRESS

FALLEN ANGELS

HAPPY TOGETHER

IN THE MOOD FOR LOVE

2046



If you also need a replacement for AS TEARS GO BY (a disc that has not been faulty for most) please let us know and we will send it as well. These will be provided on a case by case basis.



Here's what we need from you to ship out your replacements:

Confirmation of your name and a US or Canadian mailing address that will be valid for at least the next 1-4 weeks

If the discs need to be sent internationally, please send $10 to store@criterion.com via PayPal to offset some of our shipping costs

Confirm whether your copy of AS TEARS GO BY has displayed playback issues and needs to be replaced

A photo of the six or seven defective discs with your name and date written on the front/art side (using a sharpie or paint marker - you can write this info on the lighter portion of the disc, and take a photo against a light source so your name and date are visible). All the discs can be included in a single photo. You do not need to mail in the defective discs in order to receive replacements at this time.


Replacements will be processed on an ongoing basis and tracking details will be emailed to you when they're available, typically within 2-4 weeks of us receiving the required details regarding the defective discs.

trobrianders
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Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1098 Post by trobrianders » Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:18 pm

It would also be useful to know if US editions currently on sale at amazon uk contain corrected discs or not. I'm soon buying a US edition through amazon uk so I guess I'll have to pop Criterion an email. Thanks for the heads up on this.

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omegadirective
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Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1099 Post by omegadirective » Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:19 pm

trobrianders wrote:
Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:18 pm
It would also be useful to know if US editions currently on sale at amazon uk contain corrected discs or not. I'm soon buying a US edition through amazon uk so I guess I'll have to pop Criterion an email. Thanks for the heads up on this.
I am in Canada, and we just purchased our set in December from Amazon.

trobrianders
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:18 pm

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#1100 Post by trobrianders » Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:00 pm

omegadirective wrote:
Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:19 pm
trobrianders wrote:
Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:18 pm
It would also be useful to know if US editions currently on sale at amazon uk contain corrected discs or not. I'm soon buying a US edition through amazon uk so I guess I'll have to pop Criterion an email. Thanks for the heads up on this.
I am in Canada, and we just purchased our set in December from Amazon.
Criterion replied, "only a small portion of the discs have had playback issues, the different pressings of the set are not demarcated in any specific way."

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