800 The Graduate
- Donald Brown
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:21 pm
- Location: a long the riverrun
Re: 800 The Graduate
The music wasn't recorded in 5.1, was never meant to be heard in 5.1. Listen to it the way Paul Simon intended.
- manicsounds
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:58 pm
- Location: Tokyo, Japan
Re: 800 The Graduate
I believe the 40th anniversary restoration Sony did which included a new DTS 5.1 track was approved or supervised by Nichols. One of the better 5.1 upgrades out there.barnyard078 wrote:I haven't picked up my copy of this yet, but, for what it's worth, the packaging says that the 5.1 mix was "approved by director Mike Nichols." Just putting it out there. Discuss.
- flyonthewall2983
- Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:31 pm
- Location: Indiana
- Contact:
Re: 800 The Graduate
So is the music just panned out stereo (or mono) as opposed to true 5.1?
- manicsounds
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:58 pm
- Location: Tokyo, Japan
Re: 800 The Graduate
The songs were recorded in stereo and have been remastered from the original elements rather than a remastering and spreading of the mono soundtrack.
Just check the opening walkway credits, the "Sound of Silence" song is effectively spread through the speakers, with the music having much more depth than the mono track. The airport announcements are directionally panned, coming from the left speaker, the direction Ben is facing.
Just check the opening walkway credits, the "Sound of Silence" song is effectively spread through the speakers, with the music having much more depth than the mono track. The airport announcements are directionally panned, coming from the left speaker, the direction Ben is facing.
-
- Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:47 pm
Re: 800 The Graduate
I would guess the way it was presented at the time of release was more down to the limitations of the technology than how Paul Simon wanted it.Donald Brown wrote:The music wasn't recorded in 5.1, was never meant to be heard in 5.1. Listen to it the way Paul Simon intended.
The 5.1 mix sounds great and is one of the good remixes. Granted , some remixes are dreadful but this one isn't.
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
- Location: SLC, UT
Re: 800 The Graduate
How could Paul Simon have wanted the soundtrack to be heard in a form that was nowhere near existing yet?
- flyonthewall2983
- Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:31 pm
- Location: Indiana
- Contact:
Re: 800 The Graduate
The rest of the movie is in 5.1 surround, which didn't exist for movies then either. There is lots of music from that era that's been remixed into 5.1. Pet Sounds is one that is coming out soon.
- Manny Karp
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 5:22 am
Re: 800 The Graduate
"Soon"? Pet Sounds has had a 5.1 mix for at least ten years. I haven't heard it, but the stereo mix sucked ass. You know Brian Wilson is deaf in one ear, right?flyonthewall2983 wrote:The rest of the movie is in 5.1 surround, which didn't exist for movies then either. There is lots of music from that era that's been remixed into 5.1. Pet Sounds is one that is coming out soon.
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: 800 The Graduate
In a way, you could say that 5.1 is simply the current standard reproduction of rear speakers activity, which something that existed well before The Graduate was shot (Yojimbo for instance is from 1961).swo17 wrote:How could Paul Simon have wanted the soundtrack to be heard in a form that was nowhere near existing yet?
In anyway though, having samples both tracks before watching the movie with the Criterion BD, I chose the 5.1 remix. My issue with the mono track has both to do with how tinny and muffled the dialog were in mono and how the music (and the overall track) has much more depth in 5.1.
As phelings wrote, some remixes are awful, but I too didn't find this one bad at all.
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
- Contact:
Re: 800 The Graduate
I deliberately omitted the 5.1 remix of The Manchurian Candidate from the Arrow edition because it was just a travesty of the original - but I'm always prepared to listen to these things with an open mind. Jaws was surprisingly effective in 5.1, and The Conversation had the major advantage of its remix being personally overseen by Walter Murch - and I suspect this really was a case where he'd have much preferred to use multichannel sound back in 1974, if the film's budget had permitted it.
- flyonthewall2983
- Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:31 pm
- Location: Indiana
- Contact:
Re: 800 The Graduate
A Blu-ray is coming out soon, probably should have specified that.Manny Karp wrote:"Soon"? Pet Sounds has had a 5.1 mix for at least ten years. I haven't heard it, but the stereo mix sucked ass. You know Brian Wilson is deaf in one ear, right?flyonthewall2983 wrote:The rest of the movie is in 5.1 surround, which didn't exist for movies then either. There is lots of music from that era that's been remixed into 5.1. Pet Sounds is one that is coming out soon.
I like mono tracks for old movies a lot. The one for Badlands is great, and I couldn't see any need to upgrade it.
- Roger Ryan
- Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:04 pm
- Location: A Midland town spread and darkened into a city
Re: 800 The Graduate
The Jaws 5.1 mix is one of most reviled ones out there! Still, it does wonders for Williams' score even if the sound effects track is lacking. I have no problem with discs presenting newly-created 5.1 mixes as long as the original theatrical mix is represented; I agree that one for The Graduate is done well.MichaelB wrote:...Jaws was surprisingly effective in 5.1...
By the way, I find the Pet Sounds stereo remix to be a beautiful thing that reveals layers of instrumental nuance lost in the mush of the mono mix. The 5.1 mix is much more superfluous.
- hearthesilence
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
- Location: NYC
Re: 800 The Graduate
That video should be seen by anyone who asks for a remix of vintage films. Exhibit A as to why the original mix should always be preserved on any release.
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
- Contact:
Re: 800 The Graduate
My copy of Jaws contains the original mono track as well, so I'm happy. I normally insist on the original cinema version, although I was happy to make an exception for Koyaanisqatsi where it's pretty clear that they'd gladly have used 5.1 if only it had been viable back then.
- zedz
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm
Re: 800 The Graduate
I watched this film for the first time last week (and enjoyed it), and have gradually made my way through the extras. The old featurettes range from standard to embarrassing (is there anything more 2007 than the assumption that the directors of Little Miss Sunshine are Major American Filmmakers?), but the Nichols / Soderbergh commentary is sensational, and the new Hoffman and Henry / Turman interviews are excellent. I couldn't make it through more than 20 minutes of the Suber commentary, however. I know it's been highly praised earlier in this thread, but I found its combination of banal insight and suffocatingly self-amused delivery ("Benjamin whimpers because he's a wimp!") unbearable.
- ando
- Bringing Out El Duende
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:53 pm
- Location: New York City
Re: 800 The Graduate
Loved the extras, too - except the commentaries; far more insight on the separate interviews. Not crazy about The Graduates (or something to that effect), consisting of random folks in the biz gushing over the film. The Hoffman/Turman interviews and, surprisingly, The Barbara Walters Interview with Nichols were most intriguing. Funny that Bancroft, either through interviews or consideration gets no extended play. Hers is one of the most alluringly venal performances I've seen on film. I miss her.
- rohmerin
- Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:36 am
- Location: Spain
Re: 800 The Graduate
I watched my old (1st edition) Studio Canal Blu and I found the film extremely - envejecido mal- not well aged, got old. And it's all blame of Nichols' mise en scene. With a slight (or strong) allure of European cinema and editing, I found all the 1st act pretty repetitive and slooooow. Hoffman plays a kind of Antonioni bored and isolated anti hero. All the scenes in the swimming pool, and specially those in Hotel with his shyness and clumsy-ness when he tries to get a room are horrible. Hoffman was (still is) one of the best, and when He says He's 20, I belive that. With a gaze, with his talent, we know he's inexpert. All is repetitive.
And I found the movie quite out of fashion too. I mean, Harold and Maude is fresh and modern, Midnight Cowboy too. Nichol's direction and cutting is more similar in style (zoom, subjective camera. etc) to the awful and unbearable Norman Jewison who made, sorry, who destroyed the good stories of Thomas Crown and In the Heat of the Night.
MOD EDIT: Removed questionable language.
And I found the movie quite out of fashion too. I mean, Harold and Maude is fresh and modern, Midnight Cowboy too. Nichol's direction and cutting is more similar in style (zoom, subjective camera. etc) to the awful and unbearable Norman Jewison who made, sorry, who destroyed the good stories of Thomas Crown and In the Heat of the Night.
MOD EDIT: Removed questionable language.
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
- Location: SLC, UT
Re: 800 The Graduate
rohmerin, some of your intent is probably lost in translation, but you're striking a nerve with your references to Judaism. Please just don't go anywhere near the topic anymore.
- B....
- Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:08 pm
Re: 800 The Graduate
Just purchased this title & can't seem to locate the English SDH subtitles that have been indicated on a review. They are on the original Studio Canal BD. I prefer the uncompressed monaural audio here which provides exemplary dialogue that precludes the SDH for me regardless. I'm assuming that they are in fact not included here, is this correct? I have read that some "older" Criterion titles have no subtitles. Is there a definitive way of confirming subtitles on a Criterion disc prior to purchase? Thanks in advance.
- dwk
- Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm
Re: 800 The Graduate
For English language films the SDH subs should be accessible via the subtitle button on the remote.
Criterion's FAQ page has a list of the few itles that do not have SDH subs.
Criterion's FAQ page has a list of the few itles that do not have SDH subs.
All features and supplements in languages other than English include optional English subtitles. With a few exceptions English-language features include optional English subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing (SDH).
English subtitles and English SDH can be turned on/off while viewing the film by pressing the “subtitle” button on your player’s remote. If your remote does not have a “subtitle” button, subtitles and SDH are accessible in other ways—there may be a button for “audio,” “display,” or “subs,” or a menu option.
*These English-language features do not include English SDH:
By Brakhage
Festival
Fishing with John
Gimme Shelter
Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence (the Japanese is subtitled but the English is not)
Monterey Pop
Summertime
- B....
- Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:08 pm
Re: 800 The Graduate
Thank you for your assistance. Much appreciated, dwk. I have never bothered with accessing SDH via remote button as my experience has been that they are normally optioned in the disc menu. On this Criterion title there is no such option. My other Criterion titles do have menu option. I still can't understand why that is the case here considering the original Studio Canal BD does have it.dwk wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:51 pmFor English language films the SDH subs should be accessible via the subtitle button on the remote.
Criterion's FAQ page has a list of the few titles that do not have SDH subs.All features and supplements in languages other than English include optional English subtitles. With a few exceptions English-language features include optional English subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing (SDH).
English subtitles and English SDH can be turned on/off while viewing the film by pressing the “subtitle” button on your player’s remote. If your remote does not have a “subtitle” button, subtitles and SDH are accessible in other ways—there may be a button for “audio,” “display,” or “subs,” or a menu option.
*These English-language features do not include English SDH:
By Brakhage
Festival
Fishing with John
Gimme Shelter
Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence (the Japanese is subtitled but the English is not)
Monterey Pop
Summertime
- dwk
- Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm
Re: 800 The Graduate
No problem. It is odd that they do not have SDH subs as a menu option.
- B....
- Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:08 pm
Re: 800 The Graduate
I am relatively new to the Criterion Collection & this forum, so it'll take some acclimating.
Thanks again for taking time to help.
BTW, I'd love to see Criterion do a treatment of "Save The Tiger" from 1973.