800 The Graduate

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Donald Brown
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Re: 800 The Graduate

#101 Post by Donald Brown » Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:20 am

The music wasn't recorded in 5.1, was never meant to be heard in 5.1. Listen to it the way Paul Simon intended.

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manicsounds
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Re: 800 The Graduate

#102 Post by manicsounds » Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:58 am

barnyard078 wrote:I haven't picked up my copy of this yet, but, for what it's worth, the packaging says that the 5.1 mix was "approved by director Mike Nichols." Just putting it out there. Discuss.
I believe the 40th anniversary restoration Sony did which included a new DTS 5.1 track was approved or supervised by Nichols. One of the better 5.1 upgrades out there.

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Re: 800 The Graduate

#103 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:50 am

So is the music just panned out stereo (or mono) as opposed to true 5.1?

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manicsounds
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Re: 800 The Graduate

#104 Post by manicsounds » Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:12 pm

The songs were recorded in stereo and have been remastered from the original elements rather than a remastering and spreading of the mono soundtrack.

Just check the opening walkway credits, the "Sound of Silence" song is effectively spread through the speakers, with the music having much more depth than the mono track. The airport announcements are directionally panned, coming from the left speaker, the direction Ben is facing.

phelings
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Re: 800 The Graduate

#105 Post by phelings » Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:37 pm

Donald Brown wrote:The music wasn't recorded in 5.1, was never meant to be heard in 5.1. Listen to it the way Paul Simon intended.
I would guess the way it was presented at the time of release was more down to the limitations of the technology than how Paul Simon wanted it.
The 5.1 mix sounds great and is one of the good remixes. Granted , some remixes are dreadful but this one isn't.

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swo17
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Re: 800 The Graduate

#106 Post by swo17 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:42 pm

How could Paul Simon have wanted the soundtrack to be heard in a form that was nowhere near existing yet?

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Re: 800 The Graduate

#107 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:48 pm

The rest of the movie is in 5.1 surround, which didn't exist for movies then either. There is lots of music from that era that's been remixed into 5.1. Pet Sounds is one that is coming out soon.

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Manny Karp
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Re: 800 The Graduate

#108 Post by Manny Karp » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:20 am

flyonthewall2983 wrote:The rest of the movie is in 5.1 surround, which didn't exist for movies then either. There is lots of music from that era that's been remixed into 5.1. Pet Sounds is one that is coming out soon.
"Soon"? Pet Sounds has had a 5.1 mix for at least ten years. I haven't heard it, but the stereo mix sucked ass. You know Brian Wilson is deaf in one ear, right?

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tenia
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Re: 800 The Graduate

#109 Post by tenia » Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:41 am

swo17 wrote:How could Paul Simon have wanted the soundtrack to be heard in a form that was nowhere near existing yet?
In a way, you could say that 5.1 is simply the current standard reproduction of rear speakers activity, which something that existed well before The Graduate was shot (Yojimbo for instance is from 1961).

In anyway though, having samples both tracks before watching the movie with the Criterion BD, I chose the 5.1 remix. My issue with the mono track has both to do with how tinny and muffled the dialog were in mono and how the music (and the overall track) has much more depth in 5.1.

As phelings wrote, some remixes are awful, but I too didn't find this one bad at all.

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MichaelB
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Re: 800 The Graduate

#110 Post by MichaelB » Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:28 am

I deliberately omitted the 5.1 remix of The Manchurian Candidate from the Arrow edition because it was just a travesty of the original - but I'm always prepared to listen to these things with an open mind. Jaws was surprisingly effective in 5.1, and The Conversation had the major advantage of its remix being personally overseen by Walter Murch - and I suspect this really was a case where he'd have much preferred to use multichannel sound back in 1974, if the film's budget had permitted it.

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Re: 800 The Graduate

#111 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:54 pm

Manny Karp wrote:
flyonthewall2983 wrote:The rest of the movie is in 5.1 surround, which didn't exist for movies then either. There is lots of music from that era that's been remixed into 5.1. Pet Sounds is one that is coming out soon.
"Soon"? Pet Sounds has had a 5.1 mix for at least ten years. I haven't heard it, but the stereo mix sucked ass. You know Brian Wilson is deaf in one ear, right?
A Blu-ray is coming out soon, probably should have specified that.

I like mono tracks for old movies a lot. The one for Badlands is great, and I couldn't see any need to upgrade it.

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Roger Ryan
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Re: 800 The Graduate

#112 Post by Roger Ryan » Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:29 pm

MichaelB wrote:...Jaws was surprisingly effective in 5.1...
The Jaws 5.1 mix is one of most reviled ones out there! Still, it does wonders for Williams' score even if the sound effects track is lacking. I have no problem with discs presenting newly-created 5.1 mixes as long as the original theatrical mix is represented; I agree that one for The Graduate is done well.

By the way, I find the Pet Sounds stereo remix to be a beautiful thing that reveals layers of instrumental nuance lost in the mush of the mono mix. The 5.1 mix is much more superfluous.

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hearthesilence
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Re: 800 The Graduate

#113 Post by hearthesilence » Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:05 pm

That video should be seen by anyone who asks for a remix of vintage films. Exhibit A as to why the original mix should always be preserved on any release.

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MichaelB
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Re: 800 The Graduate

#114 Post by MichaelB » Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:24 pm

My copy of Jaws contains the original mono track as well, so I'm happy. I normally insist on the original cinema version, although I was happy to make an exception for Koyaanisqatsi where it's pretty clear that they'd gladly have used 5.1 if only it had been viable back then.

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zedz
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Re: 800 The Graduate

#115 Post by zedz » Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:23 pm

I watched this film for the first time last week (and enjoyed it), and have gradually made my way through the extras. The old featurettes range from standard to embarrassing (is there anything more 2007 than the assumption that the directors of Little Miss Sunshine are Major American Filmmakers?), but the Nichols / Soderbergh commentary is sensational, and the new Hoffman and Henry / Turman interviews are excellent. I couldn't make it through more than 20 minutes of the Suber commentary, however. I know it's been highly praised earlier in this thread, but I found its combination of banal insight and suffocatingly self-amused delivery ("Benjamin whimpers because he's a wimp!") unbearable.

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ando
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Re: 800 The Graduate

#116 Post by ando » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:49 pm

Loved the extras, too - except the commentaries; far more insight on the separate interviews. Not crazy about The Graduates (or something to that effect), consisting of random folks in the biz gushing over the film. The Hoffman/Turman interviews and, surprisingly, The Barbara Walters Interview with Nichols were most intriguing. Funny that Bancroft, either through interviews or consideration gets no extended play. Hers is one of the most alluringly venal performances I've seen on film. I miss her.

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rohmerin
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Re: 800 The Graduate

#117 Post by rohmerin » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:02 pm

I watched my old (1st edition) Studio Canal Blu and I found the film extremely - envejecido mal- not well aged, got old. And it's all blame of Nichols' mise en scene. With a slight (or strong) allure of European cinema and editing, I found all the 1st act pretty repetitive and slooooow. Hoffman plays a kind of Antonioni bored and isolated anti hero. All the scenes in the swimming pool, and specially those in Hotel with his shyness and clumsy-ness when he tries to get a room are horrible. Hoffman was (still is) one of the best, and when He says He's 20, I belive that. With a gaze, with his talent, we know he's inexpert. All is repetitive.

And I found the movie quite out of fashion too. I mean, Harold and Maude is fresh and modern, Midnight Cowboy too. Nichol's direction and cutting is more similar in style (zoom, subjective camera. etc) to the awful and unbearable Norman Jewison who made, sorry, who destroyed the good stories of Thomas Crown and In the Heat of the Night.

MOD EDIT: Removed questionable language.

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swo17
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Re: 800 The Graduate

#118 Post by swo17 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:01 pm

rohmerin, some of your intent is probably lost in translation, but you're striking a nerve with your references to Judaism. Please just don't go anywhere near the topic anymore.

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B....
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Re: 800 The Graduate

#119 Post by B.... » Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:19 pm

Just purchased this title & can't seem to locate the English SDH subtitles that have been indicated on a review. They are on the original Studio Canal BD. I prefer the uncompressed monaural audio here which provides exemplary dialogue that precludes the SDH for me regardless. I'm assuming that they are in fact not included here, is this correct? I have read that some "older" Criterion titles have no subtitles. Is there a definitive way of confirming subtitles on a Criterion disc prior to purchase? Thanks in advance.

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dwk
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Re: 800 The Graduate

#120 Post by dwk » Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:51 pm

For English language films the SDH subs should be accessible via the subtitle button on the remote.

Criterion's FAQ page has a list of the few itles that do not have SDH subs.
All features and supplements in languages other than English include optional English subtitles. With a few exceptions English-language features include optional English subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing (SDH).

English subtitles and English SDH can be turned on/off while viewing the film by pressing the “subtitle” button on your player’s remote. If your remote does not have a “subtitle” button, subtitles and SDH are accessible in other ways—there may be a button for “audio,” “display,” or “subs,” or a menu option.

*These English-language features do not include English SDH:
By Brakhage
Festival
Fishing with John
Gimme Shelter
Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence (the Japanese is subtitled but the English is not)
Monterey Pop
Summertime

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B....
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Re: 800 The Graduate

#121 Post by B.... » Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:19 pm

dwk wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:51 pm
For English language films the SDH subs should be accessible via the subtitle button on the remote.

Criterion's FAQ page has a list of the few titles that do not have SDH subs.
All features and supplements in languages other than English include optional English subtitles. With a few exceptions English-language features include optional English subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing (SDH).

English subtitles and English SDH can be turned on/off while viewing the film by pressing the “subtitle” button on your player’s remote. If your remote does not have a “subtitle” button, subtitles and SDH are accessible in other ways—there may be a button for “audio,” “display,” or “subs,” or a menu option.

*These English-language features do not include English SDH:
By Brakhage
Festival
Fishing with John
Gimme Shelter
Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence (the Japanese is subtitled but the English is not)
Monterey Pop
Summertime
Thank you for your assistance. Much appreciated, dwk. I have never bothered with accessing SDH via remote button as my experience has been that they are normally optioned in the disc menu. On this Criterion title there is no such option. My other Criterion titles do have menu option. I still can't understand why that is the case here considering the original Studio Canal BD does have it.

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dwk
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Re: 800 The Graduate

#122 Post by dwk » Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:55 pm

No problem. It is odd that they do not have SDH subs as a menu option.

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B....
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Re: 800 The Graduate

#123 Post by B.... » Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:17 pm

dwk wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:55 pm
No problem. It is odd that they do not have SDH subs as a menu option.
I am relatively new to the Criterion Collection & this forum, so it'll take some acclimating.
Thanks again for taking time to help.
BTW, I'd love to see Criterion do a treatment of "Save The Tiger" from 1973.

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