1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

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Mr Sausage
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#51 Post by Mr Sausage » Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:36 pm

justeleblanc wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:38 pm
I haven't seen any of the OUATIC series, but I was wondering why OUATIC&A was treated much like an afterthought, that is it is included as a special feature and not as its own featured film. Is it an inferior film? Is it very different from the other films? Just curious. Thanks in advance, and my apologies if this has already been answered somewhere else on the forum.
It's a pretty bad film, yeah, made by different people and unrelated to the setting and themes of the first three, at least. Tho' it's still weird to me to treat a full-on sequel, shitty quality or not, as an extra in a box set devoted to a series.

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dwk
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#52 Post by dwk » Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:42 pm

The Eureka box also treated it as an extra. So there could be some contractual reason.

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swo17
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#53 Post by swo17 » Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:04 am

It's more of a western than a martial arts film, like the rest of the series

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yoloswegmaster
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#54 Post by yoloswegmaster » Sun Nov 07, 2021 1:29 pm

It's strange that OUATIC&A is from a 2K master when a 4K version with Dolby Vision appears on iTunes.

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Torrente
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#55 Post by Torrente » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:38 am

Do we know yet if the boxset is a big book with the discs slipped inside or if it's a more "regular" set with plastic trays + a book on the side?

Thanks for your help!

Glowingwabbit
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#56 Post by Glowingwabbit » Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:52 am

Torrente wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:38 am
Do we know yet if the boxset is a big book with the discs slipped inside or if it's a more "regular" set with plastic trays + a book on the side?

Thanks for your help!
Based on the picture on their site it looks like it might be identical to the Bruce Lee set.where you get a foldout with two disc plastic trays on each.

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Torrente
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#57 Post by Torrente » Sat Nov 13, 2021 2:54 pm

Glowingwabbit wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:52 am
Based on the picture on their site it looks like it might be identical to the Bruce Lee set.where you get a foldout with two disc plastic trays on each.
That would be great. Thank you for your answer.

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cdnchris
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#58 Post by cdnchris » Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:34 pm

Torrente wrote:
Glowingwabbit wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:52 am
Based on the picture on their site it looks like it might be identical to the Bruce Lee set.where you get a foldout with two disc plastic trays on each.
That would be great. Thank you for your answer.
Yes, it's identical to the Lee set. I'll be putting pictures up later today.


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FrauBlucher
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#60 Post by FrauBlucher » Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:45 pm


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willoneill
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#61 Post by willoneill » Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:52 am

I'm interested in picking up one of these sets, so a question for the experts/aficionados on these films, how invaluable are parts IV and V? And to put it in context, are they worth doubling the price I pay, seeing as how I can get the Eureka set for ~$40 CDN, and the Criterion will cost ~$80 CDN at sale prices.

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dwk
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#62 Post by dwk » Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:13 pm

I haven't seen 4 and 5 yet, so I can't comment on them, but the Criterion release enabled irongod2112 to fix various errors on the Eureka set (missing mattes, missing day for night, better audio for parts 1 and 3.)

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The Elegant Dandy Fop
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#63 Post by The Elegant Dandy Fop » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:56 am

willoneill wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:52 am
I'm interested in picking up one of these sets, so a question for the experts/aficionados on these films, how invaluable are parts IV and V?
Part IV is the weakest of the entire series. It’s a direct sequel to part III and continues the lion dancing theme. I frankly was a bit exhausted by the lion dancing by the end of part III and getting more felt like it was lazily planned. They manage to mix it up a little by feature more abstract, fantasy dragons to fight that have no functional basis in reality, as though the Wong Fei Hung movies suddenly become a kaiju battle. Vincent Zhao is actually a stellar replacement for Jet Li, but Rosamund Kwan suddenly disappearing in this part and being replace by another westernized sister strikes me as very lazy. There’s also a nice apperance by Billy Chow of Robotrix fame, but this time fully dressed. The humor with Wong’s cronies doesn’t always land either. It’s worth noting its the first film in the series not to be directed by Tsui Hark.

But as Feihong said earlier in this thread, part V is as good as the best films in the series. It’s certainly Tsui at his most over-the-top and sort of a hint of what he would do with his American features a few years later. The staging of each scene (action and non-action alike) is incredible as he’s constantly cutting between multiple details of a scene, as brilliantly demonstrated in a scene where Rosamund Kwan is failing at baking a cake while having her heart being broken at the same time. And the addition of gun play into the series made me a little nervous, but it’s incorporated into the action so brilliantly. It’s also certainly the funniest film in the series as they really play into the slapstick, giving Max Mok a lot of his best moments in the entire series. I am glad I picked up this set despite owning the Eureka set for this film alone and the very good additional features Criterion adds.

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cdnchris
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#64 Post by cdnchris » Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:43 pm

The Elegant Dandy Fop wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:56 am
It’s certainly Tsui at his most over-the-top and sort of a hint of what he would do with his American features a few years later.
SpoilerShow
The villain's demise at the end of the fifth film was probably one of the funniest over-the-top moments for me in the series. Just the quick cuts and suddenness of it had me leap forward in my seat.
I thought the fourth was pretty terrible, so wasn't holding out much hope for the fifth, but it is on par with the others. Mixing guns into some of the fight scenes was well done as you said, and the plot felt fresher and I like the amped up absurdity to it. Though the stories didn't branch out much, it was ridiculous that the fourth basically just rehashed the same general plots of the previous films and blended them, even taking the lion dance plot from the third film and make it an international thing instead.

I assumed Kwan wasn't able to appear in the fourth film, so instead or recasting they just made a new character that was pretty much the same. But then Kwan comes back for the fifth alongside 14th, so I thought maybe they brought the character in for another reason, though, if I recall correctly, 14th Aunt just kinda disappears from the film.

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willoneill
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#65 Post by willoneill » Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:23 pm

Thanks for all the input. There seems to be a strong consensus that the more complete set is worth it. Also, while the Eureka set has commentaries, they're with Mike Leeder, who I feel like he might be full of shit sometimes.

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feihong
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#66 Post by feihong » Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:04 pm

I had the Eureka set and I got the Criterion one, and I think the investment in the Criterion one was really worth it. i haven't tried to do any kind of comparison between the two sets, but my impression was that the Criterion set presented the films in the finest quality I've ever seen them. I saw the original Once Upon a Time in China at the New Beverly Cinema, and the the 35mm print didn't look as good as this disc does. The first film in the series has never looked too great on home video before. I remember being impressed by the visual treatment of the first film on the Eureka set, but I was blown away by how rich it looked on the Criterion set. #2 looks good on the Criterion set, and #3 looks heartbreakingly good––Andrew Lau never gets enough credit as a cinematographer, I feel. Arthur Wong, who shot some of the first film and all of the 2nd, usually gets the lion's share of praise for these movies––or at least, that's my impression––but Lau's cinematography is full of gorgeous, saturated color, which makes #3 look great. Basically, I think the treatment of #1 on the Criterion set looks better to my eyes than on the Eureka set, but I don't have screenshots to know for sure. Watching it on the Criterion disc, I was constantly discovering elements of the image I had never seen before. I thought the set was worth it just for that, but luckily there are three more good films, 1 okay one, and only one outright bad film left in the set.

As people have said, #4 is not too good––I think #6 is far, far, faaaaarrr worse, but the repetition of the lion dance is a disappointment, Zhao Wen Zhuo has not quite settled into playing Wong Fei Hong yet (he is much more natural in #5, and I wish there were more OUATIC movies with him as Wong), and the direction by Yuen Bun is just not as good, ass around. Bun favors these really extreme low-angle and dutch-tilt shots which seem to obscure more than they reveal in the movie. I think you also get a sense of the series being at its' lowest ebb in terms of how excited the people were to be in it––besides Jean Wang there is not a lot of energetic acting on display. But Tsui Hark returns to direct #5, and I think he brings the verve for the series back with him––and his skill at directing is just way beyond Yuen Bun. And I have to say, even though #4 isn't a good story, the martial arts are still pretty awesome. Zhao Wen Zhuo hasn't got the feel for the character yet in #4, but he moves like a maniac. Even just his martial arts performance in the opening credits is amazing to watch. Jet Li injured his back on the first film in the series, and he is frequently doubled in the later half of that film and in all the later movies, virtually whenever his character leaves the ground. Zhao Wen Zhuo is doubled far, far less in his entries, and he has this rhythm all his own when he's fighting on screen. This is an unpopular opinion, as I know people love Jet Li in these movies, but I think Zhao's fight scenes are often more remarkable than Jet's in these movies. And if you're a fan of later Tsui Hark, like The Blade, I think #5 leans heavily into where Tsui would go with The Blade. The look is somewhat similar, especially the colors in the cinematography, and there is a sequence where the pirates lay siege to the rice stores which is very reminiscent to me of what Tsui would do later with the siege on the sword manufacturer in The Blade.

A word on the commentaries, as well––I considered keeping the Eureka set for them, but thinking about the quality of the commentary, I decided I'm not going to do it. These commentaries are not exceptional in any way––no new historical information, no new insights into the films. A lot of actor filmographies, if I recall right, and a lot of re-tread from the Bey Logan commentaries on the Hong Kong Legends discs. They even mention Bey Logan at one point as "he who will not be named." That took me down a grisly stream of articles about Logan. But because they didn't explain why they were referring to him that way, I ended up pausing the film to do the research. I don't know. It was very jarring in the middle of the commentary, really took me out of it for a while. I don't think we'll ever have an even passable commentary track for #1––though in the Eureka set they do sort of apologize for the HK Legends commentary track with Bey Logan and the guy who plays the British commander in the movie (Mark King, I think?), who seems to hate life and movies. I listened through all 3 of the new commentary tracks and they made almost no impression.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#67 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:01 pm

Aside from a few exciting setpieces and lavish technical prowess/art direction making them stylistically magnificent, I wasn't a huge fan of the first two installments. I can appreciate how some folks want more story and thematic density and got those out of the first film -which certainly piqued my interest to some degree, though I have little to add to Sausage's writeup in that respect- but ultimately I craved more unhinged action and less grounded story, the latter of which I felt dragged the former down too much. However, I do want to comment on the final 'flick' of the metal ball that magically replicates a gun's effectiveness and left me laughing in how it called into question whether all the gravitas brought to this conflict of old v new ways could be undone with a fantastical bit of wish fulfillment. I'm sure I'm misinterpreting the act's purpose, but it so clearly undermined the authority of realistic circumstances beyond artificially reversing powerlessness on a nationalist level. The mechanics of martial arts were previously all relatively sound- sure some flying wuxia stuff occurred, but gravity and other scientific principles of familiar cause/effect applied for the most part, and so to create a manmade gun with ones finger-muscles (I can't help but wonder if this is where the idea from Everything Everywhere All at Once stemmed from) annihilates the sincerity of the film's ethos as I understood it and lifts the film into self-mockery. Perhaps there could be a reading of quiet sadness as it can play for some like the ending of Tarantino's OUAT film, but I didn't get a self-aware impression on any larger scale than "this would be cool so I'll include it" which felt out of step from the rest of the film that preceded it, even if totally in step with a piece of Tsui Hark's id taking control over his work.

This all leads to why I found a later entry the best, but first: The third was a drag with a couple of cool scenes, the fourth was atrocious, and the sixth American add-on was awful outside of some funny cartoonish violence in the finale. What I did not expect though was to find the fifth chapter to be my favorite.. It's not as gorgeously designed or narratively complex as the first two, nor are the action scenes choreographed with particularly impressive martial arts comparatively. And still, it's Tsui Hark just doing what he does best: baldfaced, audaciously creative action that forsakes mindfulness whilst still being controlled and intentional. Here is a film that's essentially just Wong and his friends taking on a gang of pirates, and Tsui Hark has an absolute blast with the gunplay and fights divorced from any investment in story -after a consciously silly first act involving a love triangle with Wong's two aunts and the limp development of a local crime prevention unit to protect against the pirates, though this piece still works under the established tone of a carefree programmatic skeleton. What a reversal after the last slug of a film, with an endless array of fluid setpieces (and imaginative weaponry) that never got boring- a kind of low-beat comfort-food pirate adventure movie that we all need in our lives. Awesome stuff.

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movielocke
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#68 Post by movielocke » Thu May 12, 2022 12:27 pm

Is there a misprint in the booklet? It opens with four pages for each of the first five films, but skips the sixth film. The pagination is continuous though.

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knives
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#69 Post by knives » Thu May 12, 2022 12:28 pm

That’s treated like an extra and not a real member.

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Mr Sausage
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#70 Post by Mr Sausage » Thu May 12, 2022 12:44 pm

knives wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 12:28 pm
That’s treated like an extra and not a real member.
That's still such a bizarre decision. Like, the movie sucks, sure, but it's a real entry in the series and even has 95% of the cast from the first three installments, something untrue of 4 and 5. I get that Hong Kong would turn unconnected movies into a series ex post facto (see: In the Line of Duty) or make sequels totally unrelated to each other. But this is not that. There is explicit continuity in character and theme.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#71 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu May 12, 2022 12:50 pm

It's not even the worst one, though IV sets the bar below sea level

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movielocke
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#72 Post by movielocke » Thu May 12, 2022 2:01 pm

weird.

It’s presented on the disc same as the other five, and is a better movie than iv . I guess the lack of Leung Foon was the deciding factor? 🤭

I guess it’s not “in China” is one rationale. Or another, as the producer said on one extra, ‘always make something you can be proud of later,’ so perhaps they’re not proud of the western entry?

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therewillbeblus
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#73 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu May 12, 2022 2:07 pm

Well, the fourth film has more of a connective tissue in that it leads to five (sorta) and picks up from three (I think), so you can’t make that one an extra no matter how bad it is. The sixth is an extension of the series, so it can acceptably be on a bonus disc, though from a selling point I’d think more people would be inclined to rationalize spending money on six advertised films than five..

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movielocke
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#74 Post by movielocke » Thu May 12, 2022 2:21 pm

I have to agree with the above that v is quite impressive, and deliriously fun for the group to take on pirates. A shame that iv and v have merely hundreds of views on letterboxd while the others have thousands—jet li star power I suspect—but folks are missing out if they skip v.

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Finch
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Re: 1103 Once Upon a Time in China: The Complete Films

#75 Post by Finch » Thu May 12, 2022 2:40 pm

IV caused me to fall asleep for stretches of it but I thought it had the best cinematography (very stylised, made me think of Italian giallos) out of the first four. I've not seen V and VI yet. So far, the first is still my favorite.

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