Kino Lorber Studio Classics

Vinegar Syndrome, Deaf Crocodile, Imprint, Cinema Guild, and more.
Post Reply
Message
Author
Glowingwabbit
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 1:27 pm

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2451 Post by Glowingwabbit » Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:04 pm

So wait, Kat Ellinger (British and female) is not suited to do a commentary for a British film featuring with Oscar-winning performance by the lead actress?
I dont know what this was all about as I was clearly using Easy Living as my example which is neither British nor did it win Jean Arthur an Oscar.

Ive never seen Room at the Top so I have no opinion on that and my initial comment was only sparked my seeing her name pop up on what seems like every other release and having been disappointed with her on Easy Living (again I like Kat Ellinger when she talks about films shes more passionate about).

But it's probably just as well Kl insider is banned as they clearly couldnt handle any level of criticism without flyong off the handle.

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2452 Post by MichaelB » Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:17 pm

Randall Maysin wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:45 am
How do this forum's rules define the difference in decorum between calling someone clueless in the rudest (and most presumptuous) way possible, and calling someone stupid in the rudest (and most presumptuous) way possible? The finer points elude me.
My rule of thumb is that you can call an individual post stupid (since there's clear supporting evidence), but not extend that to a blanket statement about its author (much more contentious).

User avatar
Finch
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2453 Post by Finch » Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:26 pm

I wasn't singling out Kat Ellinger either and was talking in general terms since Pinkerton's Robbery track came in for criticism too.

Robin Davies
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:00 am

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2454 Post by Robin Davies » Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:30 pm

Randall Maysin wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:45 am
How do this forum's rules define the difference in decorum between calling someone clueless in the rudest (and most presumptuous) way possible, and calling someone stupid in the rudest (and most presumptuous) way possible? The finer points elude me.
I don't see the distinction either. Is Kino Insider seriously being banned for this? My doubts about the way this forum is run are multiplying...

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2455 Post by domino harvey » Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:42 pm

If the banning of a label rep who solely used this forum to hawk the wares of his employer makes you feel there is a chasm of insight now missing, you can always enjoy his posts on the Blu-ray.com forum. Though if you think the moderation here is bad, best of luck to ya over there!

User avatar
Cremildo
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:19 pm
Location: Brazil
Contact:

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2456 Post by Cremildo » Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:49 pm

I wish the Blu-ray.com forum moderators would ban the KLI there as well, but there's clearly a considerable contingent of users who are masochistic and genuinely appreciate the Insider's rudeness, so there's that.

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2457 Post by MichaelB » Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:51 pm

Cremildo wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:49 pm
I wish the Blu-ray.com forum moderators would ban the KLI there as well, but there's clearly a considerable contingent of users who are masochistic and genuinely appreciate the Insider's rudeness, so there's that.
Whereas here, you can even slag off these forums on Blu-ray.com and get away with it, because we believe in freedom of speech.

Seriously, it is actually pretty hard to get banned from here - it's rarely a first-offence situation.

User avatar
cdnchris
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:45 pm
Location: Washington
Contact:

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2458 Post by cdnchris » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:03 pm

You really have to go out of your way to get banned here, you're more likely to get a temporary ban at worst. Although if it's someone who only posts here to advertise their stuff, gets hotheaded because of a suggestion or a criticism of their product, and then starts calling someone names because of it, then yeah, that's pushing it.

Robin Davies
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:00 am

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2459 Post by Robin Davies » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:20 pm

cdnchris wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:03 pm
You really have to go out of your way to get banned here, you're more likely to get a temporary ban at worst. Although if it's someone who only posts here to advertise their stuff, gets hotheaded because of a suggestion or a criticism of their product, and then starts calling someone names because of it, then yeah, that's pushing it.
I don't see how calling someone "stupid" in direct response to being called "clueless" is "going out of their way to get banned".

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2460 Post by domino harvey » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:22 pm

Mod note here: We do see how at first glance this may seem like double-standards, but looking at one post does not always give the full picture of recurrent issues held with a poster. There have been long-standing problems with the posting tenor and treatment of other users from Kino Lorber Insider, and this infraction may have had different results with other supporting evidence. As Chris says above, there are other things under consideration when making a decision like this, and this was merely the proverbial needle for KLI.

User avatar
tenia
Ask Me About My Bassoon
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2461 Post by tenia » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:32 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Cremildo wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:49 pm
I wish the Blu-ray.com forum moderators would ban the KLI there as well, but there's clearly a considerable contingent of users who are masochistic and genuinely appreciate the Insider's rudeness, so there's that.
Whereas here, you can even slag off these forums on Blu-ray.com and get away with it, because we believe in freedom of speech.

Seriously, it is actually pretty hard to get banned from here - it's rarely a first-offence situation.
So many memories coming back from there reading back about my then-recent ban there.

Without flattery, we already discussed the tone this forum can have, but it's obvious the mod here is way more casual but on the other hand, it can also be way more on-point when there is a real need for mod. It's clear many exchanges that happened on blu-ray.com would have never passed mod here while many quiet cleanings there wouldn't have either, which is ironic considering it's the people over there who complains about the mod here.

That's why I prefer the better transparency here and certainly don't regret blu-ray.com in this regard.

User avatar
Cremildo
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:19 pm
Location: Brazil
Contact:

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2462 Post by Cremildo » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:39 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:51 pm
Whereas here, you can even slag off these forums on Blu-ray.com and get away with it, because we believe in freedom of speech.
I'm sure you think that's some sort of gotcha! moment, but it'd have been more apropos had you come up with more recent examples of me directly slandering these boards to prove whatever petty point you're trying to make. I've been accessing these forums and participating in it more frequently in the last one or two years, despite having been registered for longer than that, and it goes without saying that I have no need or desire to criticize it anymore as that temporary ban is a thing of the past and I haven't given mods here reason to repeat it. I often use these boards as a source for news and other assorted info on Blu-ray.com and give them due credit.

Ironically, I've seen you slag me off behind my back in one of the Infighting and Navel Gazing threads for the very same reason, and I let it slide then because it was so bizarre having a user whom I never talked to harbor such an animosity motivated by a two-year-old off-site comment.

So, kindly lay off my back.

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2463 Post by MichaelB » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:54 pm

Cremildo wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:39 pm
I'm sure you think that's some sort of gotcha! moment
No, not at all. I know this sounds wildly unbelievable, but it's entirely true - I was going to bring up this example anyway, and had drafted most of a post when you obligingly popped up.

And there's no animosity at all - I'm just amused by the way that it paints a portrait of these forums that's so clearly at variance with the reality, while being posted in another forum that really does ban people for looking at the mods in a funny way. Perhaps if you stopped regarding it as some kind of personal attack you might be able to appreciate the irony.

User avatar
cdnchris
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:45 pm
Location: Washington
Contact:

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2464 Post by cdnchris » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:08 pm

Robin Davies wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:20 pm
cdnchris wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:03 pm
You really have to go out of your way to get banned here, you're more likely to get a temporary ban at worst. Although if it's someone who only posts here to advertise their stuff, gets hotheaded because of a suggestion or a criticism of their product, and then starts calling someone names because of it, then yeah, that's pushing it.
I don't see how calling someone "stupid" in direct response to being called "clueless" is "going out of their way to get banned".
As domino points out it's not just this post, and it goes back even further to other "representatives" for the label (I think misterlime was the other) acting out in the same manner. And it's especially ridiculous when we're letting them post about their releases when we actually have rules that don't allow users to advertise.

User avatar
Feego
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:30 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2465 Post by Feego » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:45 pm

The basic difference between domino's "clueless" remark and Kino Insider's "stupid" remark is that domino was calling out the absurdity of KI's one-sentence defense that a commentator is suited to discuss a British film with a female lead by virtue of being British and female. KI then accused domino of being stupid for ... accurately comprehending KI's words? If you're going to accuse people of being stupid for believing what you post, then why post at all?

User avatar
tenia
Ask Me About My Bassoon
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2466 Post by tenia » Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:27 pm

I guess the bottom line of this is : stick to your good resolutions, folks !

User avatar
Finch
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2467 Post by Finch » Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:29 pm

I'm grateful that Kino exist and what films they release, but the sheer quantity of what they release can (and does, if not every single time) lead to releases that often feel fairly good but not like true labours of love in the way that Indicator's do. Now, not every company needs to be Indicator (though it'd be nice!) but as the Lost Highway bonus features + PR fiasco and the report of some underwhelming audio commentaries and issues with aspect ratios on Blackmail demonstrate, Kino don't put in the extra care that makes a release truly essential. You clearly can't fault them for taste but for real effort, their releases mostly rate a B or C+ grade, and their public relations guys really need to develop some thicker skin and take constructive feedback on the chin. They don't seem to realise most people actually want their releases to be really great. They might want to consider slowing down and really knock a bunch of titles out of the park.

User avatar
tenia
Ask Me About My Bassoon
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2468 Post by tenia » Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:04 am

They've already explained multiple times that the sheer quantity of releases meant overloading their small team and that issues were bound to happen.

It's clear to me they've chosen quantity over quality, but it can be OK as long as when the worst happen, consumers can expect a fair reaction to the detected issues. I mean : mistakes happen, the important thing is to treat them as such. But Kino has often be lacking here, treating most issues as non-existing AND talking down to people pointing the mistakes (that Kino should have detected in the first place, so not only consumers are doing the QC, but they're talked down by the ones who didn't), which definitely isn't doing any favor to the trust they HAVE TO build with consumers to help overlooking the higher likelihood of mistakes.

They absolutely should release less titles (which would be the case even by still releasing 15 per month) if they can't handle more in a professional way.

User avatar
Roscoe
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:40 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2469 Post by Roscoe » Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:20 am

tenia wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:04 am
But Kino has often be lacking here, treating most issues as non-existing AND talking down to people pointing the mistakes (that Kino should have detected in the first place, so not only consumers are doing the QC, but they're talked down by the ones who didn't), which definitely isn't doing any favor to the trust they HAVE TO build with consumers to help overlooking the higher likelihood of mistakes.
This. My respect for Kino took a massive hit with the SPIES/WOMAN IN THE MOON Aspect Ratio Fiasco -- I haven't been made a single Kino purchase since without carefully checking reviews and getting the heaviest possible discounts.

User avatar
FrauBlucher
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:28 pm
Location: Greenwich Village

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2470 Post by FrauBlucher » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:55 am

tenia wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:04 am
They've already explained multiple times that the sheer quantity of releases meant overloading their small team and that issues were bound to happen.

It's clear to me they've chosen quantity over quality, but it can be OK as long as when the worst happen, consumers can expect a fair reaction to the detected issues. I mean : mistakes happen, the important thing is to treat them as such. But Kino has often be lacking here, treating most issues as non-existing AND talking down to people pointing the mistakes (that Kino should have detected in the first place, so not only consumers are doing the QC, but they're talked down by the ones who didn't), which definitely isn't doing any favor to the trust they HAVE TO build with consumers to help overlooking the higher likelihood of mistakes.

They absolutely should release less titles (which would be the case even by still releasing 15 per month) if they can't handle more in a professional way.
The irony in all this is the Insider on several occasions has taken a shot at Criterion for releasing only 5 to 6 titles a month.

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2471 Post by MichaelB » Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:02 pm

Indicator releases four or five titles a month, and that's honestly the team's realistic limit without corners having to be cut - it averages out at about one per week, which sounds about right in terms of what's needed. Although of course the size of the team is a key factor here.

User avatar
Florinaldo
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:38 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2472 Post by Florinaldo » Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:19 pm

Finch wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:57 pm
Well, like some actors appearing in a dreadful film just so they can pay their kids' college fees or pay off their mortgage, some scholars will also take money to record a commentary for a film they don't care about.
Some frequent audio commentators (and interview subjects) can be uneven when they stray out of their area of specialisation. There are a very few apparent polymaths out there like Adrian Martin or Kat Ellinger who manage to defy the odds and provide consistently interesting contributions over a wide spectrum of films. But even someone like Kim Newman, who is also knowledgeable in the Western genre for example as he demonstrated on the Indicator Boetticher set, usually sticks to his core area of SF/supernatural fiction and film and provides consistenly interesting facts and opinions. Others might do well to consider following his example.

There's also the option of using an audio only lengthy radio or public interview with the director or another cast/crew member and running it over the movie on one of the audio tracks (a public panel is another possibility). It's what Criterion did on on their release of de Palma's Sisters which I watched recently and Indicator has also used that practice. It avoids a frantic search for someone, anyone, to do a commentary they might not be a good candidate for (of course, it deprives the label of the marketing opportunity to tout it as a "NEW commentary!").
Last edited by Florinaldo on Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
TwoTecs
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:26 pm

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2473 Post by TwoTecs » Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:02 pm

Watched Kundun over the weekend. It is a good looking transfer but the level of detail and color saturation vary throughout. There are some shots that really standout and almost look like they were taken from a new master. Overall the master merely hints at the brilliance of the cinematography. The complexity and volume of color and the detail that is present in the best of film transfers is just not there. I would still recommend buying it just to own a copy of this film considering Disney's relationship with China and Iger's recent feud with Scorsese. Hopefully someday the film will get its due with a master that does justice to Deakins' work.

It was funny reading Rosenbaum's review of Kundun after watching it and finding him surprised that Scorsese made such a great film about the subject. He praises Scorsese for taking us inside Dalai Lama's life and conveying what he saw and heard and felt. That really has been Scorsese's mode since his first feature and the essence of his style. He chides Scorsese for making "commercial films" with stars while ignoring that those films are what allowed Scorsese the freedom to take on more esoteric subjects. Also made me sad to think that at one point Casino was considered a commercial film and now Scorsese can't get studios to fund something like The Irishman.

Tangentially related: Watched like half of the Goodfellas UHD right after this. That disc was unfairly maligned upon its release. Yes, the brightness and the blacks could be better but the way some people trashed the disc makes no sense. The increase in detail and the more faithful reproduction of color is just amazing. I have seen the remastered BD quite a few times and it is a great disc but the UHD just blows it right out of the water. The film has this amazing look that is reminiscent of some American modernist color photography. The improved contrast does wonders and the image just seems much more alive. Screencaps don't convey the full benefits of UHD in a general sense. The improved detail, color, and contrast accumulate with each frame and transform the experience of viewing a film.

I just hope non-mainstream films will get the benefits of UHD as the costs of producing these discs come down and more people get the ability to play them as UHD players and 4K TVs get cheaper.

User avatar
FrauBlucher
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:28 pm
Location: Greenwich Village

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2474 Post by FrauBlucher » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:30 pm

TwoTecs, did you get around to watching the supplements. It certainly looks like a stacked package.

User avatar
tenia
Ask Me About My Bassoon
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am

Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2475 Post by tenia » Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:33 pm

IIRC, the main technical guess indeed is that the issue with Goodfellas was how HDR was used.

Post Reply