57 / BD 54 Larks on a String

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MichaelB
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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#51 Post by MichaelB » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:13 am

domino harvey wrote:I thought Friedkin taught us all to stop using "Director Approved" to end an argument
Ah, but this is director and cinematographer approved, which Friedkin's revamp of The French Connection most definitely wasn't!

In fact, Menzel insisted that Jaromír Šofr watch it with him before he'd give it his final endorsement - and Šofr then contributed an original essay to the booklet explaining why some parts of the film look less great than others (the Communist authorities censored the original negative, and the cut sequences had to be reinstated from a workprint).

On a more general note, if you're at all interested in exploring central and eastern European cinema outside the tiny number of well-known titles, less than wonderful transfers will be the rule rather than the exception. There are all sorts of reasons for this, mostly financial (the sudden withdrawal of state subsidy in the early 1990s meant that film preservation and high-quality remastering of old Communist-era titles wasn't exactly a top priority), but the upshot is that because these films only appeal to niche audiences internationally, there's no financial justification for giving them state-of-the-art HD scans outside their native countries.

Thankfully, Poland and the Czech Republic have both embarked on large-scale digitisation initiatives that should change the situation quite dramatically over the next few years, provided ambitions are fulfilled - but I certainly wouldn't use this "jam tomorrow" promise as an excuse to skip Second Run's releases today. Not least because they're so ridiculously cheap for what you get.

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Bikey
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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#52 Post by Bikey » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:51 am

Reviewed in the current Sight & Sound

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Bikey
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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#53 Post by Bikey » Sun May 08, 2011 2:11 pm


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MichaelB
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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#54 Post by MichaelB » Tue May 24, 2011 10:32 am

Just to put an end to the controversy on the previous page, I hear on the grapevine that Menzel was delighted with the finished Second Run DVD.

Which is excellent news, as it opens up the possibility of more Menzel-approved releases in the future.

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knives
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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#55 Post by knives » Fri May 27, 2011 12:22 am

Just finished this and it reached my expectations of quality while destroying the ones for content.I was expecting something along the lines of , maybe considering all descriptions, a better sustained version of what the William Klein movies gave. Instead we got a movie that has nothing in common with that previous one except the level of talent displayed. Even the look of the film is entirely different being more conventional if just as good ultimately. Just because of my general preoccupations this one didn't get me as hard, but hot damned is it still a titan.

Naturally the most shocking part is the politics. That the script getting legally passed alone speaks to the freedoms they had during that small period. This is an absolutely charming and disarming aspect of the film that probably allows me to be more forgiving of any preachiness it has, but in movies (I can think up a few literature examples) I don't believe I've witnessed such a direct and brutal lashing out against it's subject. I suppose it can be easy to go crazy against reeducation/ concentration camps like this, but usually there is a face or something to soften the blow for these sort of settings. That at best the larger community is the enemy makes the films points come across more violently. This film will not allow words to mince and I'm thankful that, yikes.

That said on first watching my favorite aspect is the pacing. It has the nice slowness that's usually found in European films while at the same time it doesn't seem to stick to any one tempo with individual scenes being rather jarring even when in context they shouldn't. This helped put a strangle hold on my attention with me not looking away once. Even these lovely sketches of characters just had me completely absorbed.

Of course the comedy helped too (the wedding scene and the conversation on who has influenced the world more had me in tears). I probably can't overstate how the presentation of comedy here is an other aspect that seems at least on surface level entirely different from my previous experience. At it's heart they have this Python-esque thing going on, but presentation is totally different where the comedy takes a more inactive role here coming from dialogue and what happens next sort of stuff. Either way though I've got stitches.


Finally I really want to thank Second Run for putting together such a lovely package. I haven't gotten to the extra yet, but the quality of the transfer here is enormous. Of the classic colour films I don't think they've done it better yet. It really looks more like a film from when it was released than when it was made so I'm intensely grateful for that. Here's to many more great releases.

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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#56 Post by Nothing » Sat May 28, 2011 7:02 am

MichaelB wrote:
domino harvey wrote:I thought Friedkin taught us all to stop using "Director Approved" to end an argument
Ah, but this is director and cinematographer approved, which Friedkin's revamp of The French Connection most definitely wasn't!
Mmm, but how old are Menzel and Sofr now, do they still have their vision? Do they have any idea what even a good SD transfer looks like? It's a horrible transfer, you've got to admit. Unlike The French Connection, which I find quite interesting - or at least, it has points good (loads of lovely nice sharp grain) and bad (blown highlights).

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MichaelB
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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#57 Post by MichaelB » Sat May 28, 2011 7:30 am

I don't think it's "horrible" at all - it's exactly what I'd realistically expect from a Czech film that was crudely censored, suppressed for twenty years, reassembled from damaged materials and not given any restoration since then because the likely market would be too tiny to justify the expense.

To me, a "horrible" transfer is one that actively interferes with your viewing pleasure, which clearly isn't the case here.

Don't get me wrong: I'd love to see a pristine transfer of this, and I'm sure Menzel and Šofr would be even keener. But they don't have the money for a full photochemical or 2K digital restoration, neither does Second Run, and I can't see anyone else stepping up to the plate without a generous subsidy from the Czech Ministry of Culture. Which may not be a complete pipe-dream in this case - the film's number 141 on this extraordinarily ambitious list of HD restorations intended to be completed by 2015 - but it's only a statement of intent at the moment: most of these masters don't exist yet. (Do any?)

(Oh, and Menzel's only 73, and I can confirm from meeting him a couple of years ago that if he really is as half-blind and senile as your impression suggests, he does a superb job of hiding it. In fact, he comes across as a lot younger than he actually is, as anyone who's watched his delightful self-created extra will confirm.)

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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#58 Post by Nothing » Sun May 29, 2011 12:22 am

The problem is with the telecine, not the materials - soft with edge enhancement and a thin, ugly short spectrum of colours. This looks like it was taken from a 1980s D1 - and probably was...

Whilst 2K mastering and restoration might perhaps not be profitable for a title like this or Red Psalm (although still not as bank breaking as you make out, at perhaps <£10k a film), the fact is that a realtime SD telecine on a decent machine really wouldn't cost much of anything, perhaps a few hundred quid, and should be well within the budget of either the Czech licensor and/or Second Run (or, in the case of this film, just wait for the HD master since it's going to be available within five years).

Basically, if Second Run were to release half as many titles as they do at present, making sure only to license titles whether either a/ a good master is available or b/ they have access to the original film elements, then spent a few hundred pounds extra to make sure they have a decent telecine to work from (+ license out to others), upping the price point of their discs to compensate, they'd very quickly raise their reputation into the MoC arena, doing the films in their catalogue justice - and profits would likely follow. Instead, they've had this haphazard "release as much as we possibly can in whatever condition we find it" attitude from the very beginning, which has only marginally improved over the last few years.

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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#59 Post by MichaelB » Sun May 29, 2011 5:23 am

Nothing wrote:The problem is with the telecine, not the materials - soft with edge enhancement and a thin, ugly short spectrum of colours. This looks like it was taken from a 1980s D1 - and probably was...
Probably not a 1980s D1, given that the film didn't receive its world premiere until 1990! But yes, there's every chance that the master was created in the 1990s for a Czech TV screening: I suspect most of my Czech-label DVDs came from a similar source. Adelheid, for instance, hails from the same production year and has similarly pasty colours and clear onscreen evidence of an analogue video source.
Whilst 2K mastering and restoration might perhaps not be profitable for a title like this or Red Psalm (although still not as bank breaking as you make out, at perhaps <£10k a film)
Sorry, but £10K (or anything close to that) is bank-breaking on a release like this. Can you convincingly argue that if they'd spent that money, they'd make it back in increased sales of Larks on a String? I certainly couldn't.
(or, in the case of this film, just wait for the HD master since it's going to be available within five years).
It might be available within five years, if current targets are met, though in my experience of similar large-scale initiatives they very rarely are. But Second Run didn't know about this project until after Larks on a String had been put to bed - and it's worth noting that they've delayed other releases because of similar initiatives elsewhere, but such delays have their own problems attached.

For instance, Andrzej Munk's Eroica got as far as a confirmed release date, only to be postponed indefinitely after the possibility was raised of a full-scale restoration being undertaken. Unfortunately, this new master still hasn't been made available, and since Second Run signed the contract some time ago, they now have less time to recoup their investment if the release ever goes ahead, as these contracts almost always come with a cut-off date after which the rights revert back to the rightsholder. Which is of course another factor that always has to be borne in mind - a five-year wait for better materials simply isn't a realistic prospect in most third-party distribution situations given that the meter will have been ticking for that long.
Basically, if Second Run were to release half as many titles as they do at present, making sure only to license titles whether either a/ a good master is available or b/ they have access to the original film elements, then spent a few hundred pounds extra to make sure they have a decent telecine to work from (+ license out to others), upping the price point of their discs to compensate, they'd very quickly raise their reputation into the MoC arena, doing the films in their catalogue justice - and profits would likely follow. Instead, they've had this haphazard "release as much as we possibly can in whatever condition we find it" attitude from the very beginning, which has only marginally improved over the last few years.
Well, for starters, they've been in business almost as long as MoC and have released only half as many titles - roughly eight or nine in a typical year, by my reckoning. That's hardly prolific.

Secondly, calling for them to raise prices misses the key point that Second Run's business model relies on people blind-buying - probably far more than with most other labels. Although the RRP is usually £12.99, in practice you should never have to pay more than a tenner - and that makes a big psychological difference when deciding to take a chance on, say, The Lighthouse, the only film from a completely unknown Armenian director that never opened theatrically so has no real critical momentum behind it. Same with a film by someone like František Vláčil, who has a huge domestic reputation but whose films were never released in Britain. Or Zoltán Huszárik - I've just finished the booklet essay for the upcoming Szindbád, so I could hardly be more aware right now of how much Huszárik and his films have been ignored by English-speaking critics!

Thirdly, if you specialise in titles from places like eastern Europe and India, dodgy masters of decades-old back catalogue entries are the rule rather than the exception - and commissioning new telecines either involves relying on local facilities or importing the materials at your expense (not to mention researching the materials in the first place, which can be a major task in itself), so this "few hundred pounds" can quickly escalate. And that's even assuming that you're allowed access to film materials at all, which often isn't the case - I was told by a Czech rightsholder that a short that I was offering to telecine to higher standards than the letterboxed Digibeta they sent me was "too fragile" to access again in 35mm form - which I suspect translated as "you're not paying us enough money to make it worth our while".

So while you could notionally draw comparisons between, say, MoC's Pialat releases and Second Run's Jancsó discs (given that both filmmakers, while undoubtedly hugely important, are hardly prominent names even in British art-cinema-friendly households), MoC had a massive advantage in that superb masters and extras had already been created in France. Same with their Murnau titles, their Japanese titles and indeed a pretty hefty chunk of their catalogue across the board. But the whole nature of Second Run's operation is that they specialise in neglected and marginalised films - which as often as not means films that have been neglected and marginalised by their rightsholders, usually because they don't think there's any money to be made out of them to make it worth striking a new master to current technical standards.

In other words, while undoubtedly well-meaning, your advice that they should "mak[e] sure only to license titles whether either a/ a good master is available or b/ they have access to the original film elements" reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of the label's entire ethos. They're not trying to compete with the BFI, MoC or Criterion, they're trying to release the titles that the BFI, MoC, Criterion and the films' own rightsholders, for whatever reason, have ignored. And indeed titles that have been ignored by the critical establishment for far too long, assuming that they picked up on them first time round.

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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#60 Post by Nothing » Sun May 29, 2011 7:38 am

MichaelB wrote:Can you convincingly argue that if they'd spent that money, they'd make it back in increased sales of Larks on a String? I certainly couldn't.
No, agreed. But then if I was going to get involved in distributing this kind of film I'd set up in the States where the MGs are similar but the market much larger.
MichaelB wrote:a five-year wait for better materials simply isn't a realistic prospect in most third-party distribution situations given that the meter will have been ticking for that long.
Sure. But then we return to idea of not licensing something unless you know you're going to be able to get your hands on a decent master (the reason, presumably, that you've encountered so much resistance to Jancso acquisitions from other parties). Given the heavy focus on ex-Soviet Eastern European states, however, one gets the impression that Second Run picked up all of these films in some kind of huge job-lot - which is one way to go about things I suppose, and I'll concede that it does at least get these films in front of an audience, but it does also mean that every title has to be whacked out onto the market for the absolute bottom line, which isn't the way I'd choose to operate personally, but hey.
MichaelB wrote:Secondly, calling for them to raise prices misses the key point that Second Run's business model relies on people blind-buying - probably far more than with most other labels...
Yes, point taken (but see above). Going the Criterion/MoC route, however, the thing would be to build up some credibility with a small hadful of better-known titles/directors and then, once the label itself has a following and a reputation for quality, you can start slipping in the Zoltán Huszáriks and František Vláčils of the world and people will buy it for the spine number alone.
MichaelB wrote:commissioning new telecines either involves relying on local facilities or importing the materials at your expense (not to mention researching the materials in the first place
Well, on this point, given that such a huge portion of Second Run's catalogue comes from Eastern Europe, I would suggest they look into establishing a relationship and an account with one of the more reputable post-production facilities (eg. Poland's The Chimney Pot) then planning an extended holiday once a year, renting a car and driving the elements about themselves, getting a whole year's masters in the can at one time, in NTSC standard. They could then recoup a good deal of the costs by lending their brand new anamorphic digis on to other distributors. Just trying to be constructive here! :-"

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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#61 Post by MichaelB » Sun May 29, 2011 8:36 am

Nothing wrote:Sure. But then we return to idea of not licensing something unless you know you're going to be able to get your hands on a decent master (the reason, presumably, that you've encountered so much resistance to Jancso acquisitions from other parties).
Believe me, that's not the only reason! Even if a brand new 2K master was available of, say, The Round-Up, it would still be a commercial risk that most other distributors would baulk at. A couple of years ago, the Curzon Mayfair staged a 35mm screening, with Jancsó himself in attendance, and I don't remember the auditorium being any more than half full, and it may not even have done that well. In fact, I've rarely been to a supposedly public screening where I knew so many people in the audience personally!

It's a very, very small world, and always has been - in fact, if it wasn't for the happy coincidence that the old Academy Cinema was run by Hungarians, would Jancsó have achieved any especial prominence in Britain even at the height of his international fame? In fact, has he ever had much of a reputation in the US? (I honestly don't know).
Given the heavy focus on ex-Soviet Eastern European states, however, one gets the impression that Second Run picked up all of these films in some kind of huge job-lot - which is one way to go about things I suppose, and I'll concede that it does at least get these films in front of an audience, but it does also mean that every title has to be whacked out onto the market for the absolute bottom line, which isn't the way I'd choose to operate personally, but hey.
No, it's not like that at all - titles are chased individually for the most part, with a few multi-title deals such as the recent five-film Hungarian one (Szindbád, Apa, Red Psalm and two others yet to be announced - one of them a Jancsó that will be making its English-subtitled DVD debut), though these were all pre-selected by Second Run as titles they wanted to release individually.

It's also not entirely fair to say that "every title has to be whacked out onto the market for the absolute bottom line", because that implies that they're absolutely barebones, whereas Second Run will usually stretch to at least one video extra (often self-generated) and invariably a high-quality booklet, and they're also very conscientious indeed when it comes to the subtitles.

But you're right that each release is assembled on a comparatively low budget which they try not to exceed - because that's the only way they can stay in business given the kind of titles they specialise in, and the low price points that are essential to encourage blind-buying.
Yes, point taken (but see above). Going the Criterion/MoC route, however, the thing would be to build up some credibility with a small hadful of better-known titles/directors and then, once the label itself has a following and a reputation for quality, you can start slipping in the Zoltán Huszáriks and František Vláčils of the world and people will buy it for the spine number alone.
But the label already has a following and a reputation for quality, and people already buy their titles for the spine number alone. The difference being, of course, is that the reputation is for the quality of programming, not technical polish - but I've already argued that that's unavoidable when dealing with ultra-niche titles whose rightsholders don't even recognise their value. In any case, a great many of their discs have superb transfers.
Well, on this point, given that such a huge portion of Second Run's catalogue comes from Eastern Europe, I would suggest they look into establishing a relationship and an account with one of the more reputable post-production facilities (eg. Poland's The Chimney Pot) then planning an extended holiday once a year, renting a car and driving the elements about themselves, getting a whole year's masters in the can at one time, in NTSC standard. They could then recoup a good deal of the costs by lending their brand new anamorphic digis on to other distributors. Just trying to be constructive here! :-"
And it's appreciated. But who are these other distributors? After all, a pretty huge chunk of Second Run's catalogue remains unique to that label, even in cases where the transfer is excellent.

The fundamental problem is that all the evidence suggests that the majority of their DVDs are never going to sell in large numbers even if the transfer is absolutely flawless, and that hardly any other distributors are interested in these titles because of this - which of course is why Second Run took them on in the first place.

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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#62 Post by Nothing » Sun May 29, 2011 9:17 am

MichaelB wrote:Believe me, that's not the only reason! Even if a brand new 2K master was available of, say, The Round-Up, it would still be a commercial risk that most other distributors would baulk at.
I'm sure that both Criterion and MoC would be interested in The Round-Up if a new HD-SR master (and the rights) were available...
MichaelB wrote:the label already has a following and a reputation for quality, and people already buy their titles for the spine number alone.
Hmm. Would be interesting to see how many units they shift in comparison to MoC and Criterion (and also considering the lower price point). Personally, I've learned the hard way never to purchase a Second Run title until screencaps are up on Beaver. Szerelem and Marketa Lazarova are examples of titles I'm fairly happy with, but wouldn't go near the Larks on a Spring transfer, sorry.
who are these other distributors? After all, a pretty huge chunk of Second Run's catalogue remains unique to that label, even in cases where the transfer is excellent.
True... Although it's easy to blame the filmmakers. I don't see anyone else leaping to release Brakhage boxsets either, but they've been quite a big seller for Criterion apparently (hence the BD). It might be worth doing regardless if it allows them to impose a consistent level of quality across their catalogue. Or how about distributing Stateside themselves, using a single NTSC pressing of the disc (unlike MoC, there's less of a conflict with their catalogue, as you point out). A little bit of ambition can go a long way!

Talking of the bottom line, the fact is that DVD sales are tailing off and they're going to have to find a way to move into BD (and digital downloads) in the next few years to stay afloat I would imagine. The low price point is probably the only reason they're still able to operate a DVD-only policy at this moment in time.

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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#63 Post by MichaelB » Sun May 29, 2011 10:19 am

Nothing wrote:I'm sure that both Criterion and MoC would be interested in The Round-Up if a new HD-SR master (and the rights) were available...
There's nothing stopping Criterion - I don't think anyone currently has the US rights. Similarly, there's nothing stopping Criterion or any other US label from picking up Red Psalm.
Hmm. Would be interesting to see how many units they shift in comparison to MoC and Criterion (and also considering the lower price point).
You can't sensibly compare a UK arthouse label with a US one - Criterion will shift many, many times more titles simply because they have a much bigger market and much greater marketing muscle. And MoC has a parent company with an existing distribution infrastructure, which Second Run doesn't have.
Personally, I've learned the hard way never to purchase a Second Run title until screencaps are up on Beaver. Szerelem and Marketa Lazarova are examples of titles I'm fairly happy with, but wouldn't go near the Larks on a Spring transfer, sorry...
Oh right - you haven't even seen it. I should have guessed.
Depends how you define excellent - I've yet to see a Second Run transfer that would pass Criterion QC.

I define "excellent" as something that would pass muster with everyone but the most anal-retentive nitpicker. Blood, Daisies, Diary for My Children and The Lighthouse all spring to mind - and the director of The Unpolished says that the Second Run DVD better reflects her intentions than the festival print.

Mind you, it's mad to compare Second Run with Criterion as a general principle - Criterion spend far more on production and often do their own transfers and restorations. One of the key planks of their brand image is their technical excellence, and people willingly pay through the nose for it (arguably too much in quite a few instances). Of course, the downside of that is that they have to maintain this level of quality or see their reputation suffer, which is presumably why they haven't taken many (or often any) risks with eastern European, African, Indian or central/south-east Asian cinema, instead favouring western European, American and Japanese titles, and familiar ones at that. (Quite often over the last couple of years, I've found their Eclipse line rather more interesting than their main one.)

It's also well worth noting that Criterion's 1960s eastern European titles really haven't been that impressive. In fact, in the one instance where you can compare the two directly, I'd argue that Second Run's A Blonde in Love (RRP £12.99) offers better value than Criterion's Loves of a Blonde (RRP £18 plus) - and that's one of Criterion's "cheap" releases!
Or how about distributing Stateside themselves, using a single NTSC pressing of the disc (unlike MoC, there's less of a conflict with their catalogue, as you point out). Just a little bit of ambition can go a long way!
It's not really "a little bit of ambition" to start up a US distribution arm, though - in fact, how many other small British distributors have even tried it, let alone pulled it off? I can think of one which had vague plans in that direction, but the fact that they remain unrealised several years after they first floated the possibility is revealing enough in itself.

And in Second Run's case such a project would be hamstrung by the fact that many of their higher-profile Eastern European titles are already represented by US labels such as Facets, Kino and even Criterion. And would there really be much of a US market for, say, Marc Isaacs, Kim Longinotto or Ron Peck?
Talking of the bottom line, the fact is that DVD sales are tailing off and they're going to have to get into BD (and digital downloads) in the next few years to stay afloat I would imagine.
They almost certainly will, but this is the sort of decision that's best taken very carefully indeed. Getting into Blu-ray now, for instance, will inevitably mean higher production budgets and smaller sales, so a much bigger gamble on titles that are risky enough to begin with. Blu-ray sales really aren't that great in the UK, as the significant increase in the number of dual-format packages makes all too clear - as does MoC's recent U-turn on its BD-only releasing policy.

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knives
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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#64 Post by knives » Sun May 29, 2011 12:30 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Personally, I've learned the hard way never to purchase a Second Run title until screencaps are up on Beaver. Szerelem and Marketa Lazarova are examples of titles I'm fairly happy with, but wouldn't go near the Larks on a Spring transfer, sorry...
Oh right - you haven't even seen it. I should have guessed.
I'd like to take this moment of an ignorant Nothing to reiterate that I found the transfer of Larks on a String to be one of the best in the whole Second Run catalog with me being entirely unable to tell the film's age nor history from the print. If the beaver stills are as bad as you suggest than it may have to do with what the film looks like in motion vs. those individual frames.

As an aside considering that Facets is basically taking up the go America suggestion Nothing has done and is consistently presenting worse transfers than them that point he is making looses a lot of traction (as does several other points). Also since it's clear as in the case of a larger label like MOC they can't afford to make their own masters many of the titles in their catalog would still be unreleased had they taken the wait and see approach suggested by Nothing who has to remember that Criterion is the exception, not the rule.

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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#65 Post by Nothing » Sun May 29, 2011 11:40 pm

knives wrote:If the beaver stills are as bad as you suggest than it may have to do with what the film looks like in motion vs. those individual frames.
Um... Michael has already admitted that it comes from an early D1 telecine (probably 90-91), as I correctly divined. Just check out the edge enhancement, milky blacks, lack of contrast and weak colours.'Seeing it in motion' isn't going to impact these flaws in any way.

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knives
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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#66 Post by knives » Mon May 30, 2011 12:19 am

I was speaking from my own experience, experience which you do not have. I did not say it was a life saving transfer milked from the heavens, but that by Second Run's standards it is extremely high and should be complimented as such. Only from the absolute newest titles in their catalog have I seen a better looking transfer from them. Hence in motion it appears drastically better than within a still which can still be true under those conditions. For example in motion my DVD of The Hitcher, which likewise is from a '90s source, looks perfectly fine in motion even if room for improvement is obvious, but even just pausing the thing turns the film into a load of pixelated junk far worse than those Beaver stills. This is the same situation.

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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#67 Post by Nothing » Mon May 30, 2011 1:33 am

There are a number of films of similar or older vintage in the Second Run catalogue with massively superior transfers, eg. Szerelem or Diary for My Children and O Sangue (cited by Michael above).

If the transfer looks fine to you, I'd have to question what kind of display you are using (upscaled and front projected, or...?)

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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#68 Post by Gregory » Mon May 30, 2011 1:37 am

(nevermind)
Last edited by Gregory on Mon May 30, 2011 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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knives
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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#69 Post by knives » Mon May 30, 2011 2:04 am

I'd say that this transfer is better than the one used for Diary for My Children. Though what authority are you daring to speak with as you haven't even seen the disc. Also all of your examples are decades younger than Larks on a String let alone having to deal with the stuff it has. To suggest otherwise makes it appear like you're speaking with no knowledge on the subject.

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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#70 Post by Nothing » Mon May 30, 2011 3:01 am

If you think the transfer is better than Diary for My Children (which has only one serious problem: blown highlights) then my guess is you're watching on an interlaced SD display, in which case you're the one without 'authority' (whatever that means). The age of the original elements is irrelevent (see MoC's City Girl BD for an example of what a good telecine can do for a much older film).

milky blacks = incorrect black levels. Look at the grabs on Beaver and see how there is no detail or contrast in the faces - combined with excessive edge enhancement this is a giveaway sign of an 80s / early 90s telecine. The lack of analogue noise would suggest D1 rather than BetaSP.

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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#71 Post by knives » Mon May 30, 2011 3:07 am

You're the one who brought up age with the comment on vintage and by the way I also brought up the condition the film was handled with. Given all of that history it's amazing the movie even exists let alone looks this good. Also I'm not watching from an SD display let alone an interlaced one. I'm watching from my laptop with this one and my HD teevee for Diary.

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MichaelB
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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#72 Post by MichaelB » Mon May 30, 2011 3:58 am

Nothing wrote:Um... Michael has already admitted that it comes from an early D1 telecine (probably 90-91), as I correctly divined.
Actually, I made no such emphatic statement - I said that it was a possibility. I wasn't involved with this release at any stage, so I have no idea what the source was.

I also think Knives is significantly exaggerating how good the transfer is - I'd say it's middling as far as Second Run's 1960s Czech films go, and clearly inferior to the likes of Daisies or Valley of the Bees (and Diary for My Children), and it's undoubtedly true that it could be made to look better, though this would need backing from someone other than a small UK label releasing a title of ultra-niche interest. That said, it's still highly watchable and in no way does it detract from enjoyment of the film - which is primarily a satirical comedy, after all.

Obviously, I still strongly take issue with Nothing's original claim that it's a "horrible" transfer, but now that I know that he hasn't actually seen it in motion, I know exactly how much value to place on his assessment - while shaking my head in wonderment at the chutzpah of making such a sweeping statement while at the same time suggesting that the film's director is incapable of judging his own work thanks to his (allegedly) advanced age!

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knives
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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#73 Post by knives » Mon May 30, 2011 4:09 am

To clarify my exaggeration I was primarily thinking of the colour features and I wouldn't say it looks better than Valley of the Bees and it's probably me less than flattering impression of Diary that makes me enjoy the transfer of this one better. If you add the caveat of it regarding colour films than I feel my comment stands though.

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NABOB OF NOWHERE
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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#74 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Mon May 30, 2011 8:54 am

MichaelB wrote: - while shaking my head in wonderment at the chutzpah of making such a sweeping statement while at the same time suggesting that the film's director is incapable of judging his own work thanks to his (allegedly) advanced age!
In a mild attempt at pouring oil on troubled waters with a little anecdotal relief this reminded me of a story about another eastern european director's judgement. A mate who had assisted on a Konchalovsky shoot told me how our Andrei was getting more and more apoplectic about ruined takes because he seemed oblivious to the fact that he had sent Cameras A and B into action diametrically opposed to one another across 180 degrees and no-one had the temerity to explain the mistake to him. After the umpteenth roasting of the operators a word was had in the ear of each to take a new initiative whilst my mate the assistant tried to appease Konchalovsky . 'It's alright Andrei,' he soothed, "I have had a word and it won't happen again. Sorry that guy, knows fuck all".
To which Konchalovsky's wrath found new heights. "Fuck all!! Fuck all??. I director. I know fuck all. He? He know fuck nothing!"

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MichaelB
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Re: 57 Larks on a String

#75 Post by MichaelB » Mon May 30, 2011 9:05 am

He obviously took English lessons from Michael Curtiz, who made exactly the same linguistic slip-up when shooting The Charge of the Light Brigade - at least according to David Niven, who named the second volume of his memoirs 'Bring on the Empty Horses' after the Curtiz instruction that triggered led directly to the "fuck nothing/fuck all" outburst.

By contrast, Menzel's recent Q&A appearances in London were through an interpreter, though I'm pretty sure he speaks (or at least understands) more English than he lets on.

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