Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

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The Fanciful Norwegian
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Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#76 Post by The Fanciful Norwegian » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:30 pm

Tenia once mentioned a theory that Ritrovata thought the yellow tint reflected how films would've looked when projected "back then." But I don't think that rationale (if it has any validity at all) would hold up for a film released in 2000, which isn't exactly "back then" considering the vintage of the films Ritrovata normally handles.

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Saturnome
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Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#77 Post by Saturnome » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:37 pm

Why don't we have an official answer from Ritrovata regarding this? It's been going on for years and we're still simply enduring this, wondering if they're even aware of what they are doing, as if they were gods and not people that someone in the know could contact.

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tenia
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Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#78 Post by tenia » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:54 pm

The Fanciful Norwegian wrote:Tenia once mentioned a theory that Ritrovata thought the yellow tint reflected how films would've looked when projected "back then." But I don't think that rationale (if it has any validity at all) would hold up for a film released in 2000, which isn't exactly "back then" considering the vintage of the films Ritrovata normally handles.
I've visited Ritrovata's lab in Paris since and confirm they consider this LUT to properly reflect how older film-shot movies were projected in the past. To sum up, they have some kind of cursor for applying this "vintage" LUT and balance things out between direct appliance and a much lighter touch, which equals for them having a 100% vintage look or a 100% modern look (for instance their Paramount's gradings).

They also said 2 things :
- some reference prints they used ARE that yellow and when Ritrovata performed A/B comparisons between their gradings and the prints, they found it to be quite accurate. This concerns notably the 4 Bruce Lee movies but also the Leone movies.
- they however told me that if they were to go back to some restorations, they would dial back on how intensely they applied this LUT. They told me they were actually already tone down their use of the LUT or the intensity of its use. For instance, on Corbucci's Le Spécialiste, you can spot their grading on a couple of shots but it's otherwise extremely light. Same goes for Cyrano de Bergerac.
Saturnome wrote:Why don't we have an official answer from Ritrovata regarding this? It's been going on for years and we're still simply enduring this, wondering if they're even aware of what they are doing, as if they were gods and not people that someone in the know could contact.
It's very weird. In one hand, the industry is quite hush hush about this kind of things but on the other hand, I've been able to spend 3-4 hrs in Ritrovata's lab and chat for about 2hrs with their CEO, and I'm just an educated amateur.

But they're very aware that they're leaving a color signature (including on their B&W movies), which led to a fascinating discussion about the different signatures of various labs, including how the seeming lack of signatures of some labs might be a signature in some way. And this hypothetical question : when Grover Crips and his colorist will retire, will we see the difference on Sony's catalogue ?


My biggest and fundamental issue with all these questions is that I'm quite young and discovering all these movies for the first time, and it's hard to know at times if what I'm discovering is artistically conveying the feeling it's supposed to when Eclair is doing everything blue, Ritrovata everything yellow, Paramount everything creamy brown, etc etc. The most symptomatic exemple to me is Autumn Sonata, which I've discovered in a surprisingly warm color grading through Criterion's BD release and which is now very cold in the Bergman set. So which is it ? Surprisingly warm or more predicatably cold ?

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Roger Ryan
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Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#79 Post by Roger Ryan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:23 pm

tenia wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:54 pm
... My biggest and fundamental issue with all these questions is that I'm quite young and discovering all these movies for the first time, and it's hard to know at times if what I'm discovering is artistically conveying the feeling it's supposed to...
I know this is purely anecdotal, but I saw a lot of movies in American cinemas in the early 70s (late 60s as well) all the way through the first part of this year, and I never recall them looking as piss yellow as some of those Ritrovata color gradings. I appreciate the effort you've made in getting answers, but I just don't think it explains how unnatural the results can be. Aside from cases where the projection bulb was clearly dimming, most films I saw in the 70s had neutral whites and natural blue skies as far as I can remember. If they all looked as weird as some of the Blu-ray representations, I would have noticed.

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tenia
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Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#80 Post by tenia » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:49 pm

Oh I don't think it explains anything either. I've recently seen movies shown in 35mm from vintage copies stored at my local cinematheque. I've seen La classe operaia va in paradiso especially, and it was quite yellow but not at all the kind of blanket tint you can find on Ritrovata's gradings. You can still find pure whites and pure whites and only some elements of the frame are yellow.
I've also seen Mimic and yeah, it didn't look at all like the DVD or the BD gradings, the print being much more nuanced and dynamic in its grading especially regarding blues.

hadyn
Joined: Mon May 11, 2020 2:37 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#81 Post by hadyn » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:03 am

Is this an old web page? Noticed it on one of the news sites covering the new 4k ITMFL trailer. Very thankful to see 2046 listed as one of the 4k restorations:

https://www.block2distribution.com/col ... -kar-wai-1

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dadaistnun
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:31 am

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#82 Post by dadaistnun » Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:06 am

The 4K restoration of ITMFL is screening at the New York Film Festival, which, due to COVID, is making most of their screenings available online as well. Virtual tickets and screening windows are limited for most titles, though there's no indication of what those limits are for this yet.

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