Criterion and UHD

[yoloswegmaster]

Geekgab, who yoloswegmaster previously mentioned as a reliable source, said on twitter that it's Citizen Kane. The tweet is now deleted and Geekgab claims it was at Warner's request. But then it would not match yoloswegmaster's description of the film saying it was from the last 30 years.

I never actually said that he was a reliable source. I had said that he was "apparently a reliable source," as I wasn't sure at the time if he was a legit source or not.

[jedgeco]

Once again, it cannot be Mulholland Drive as that movie is not licensed by Criterion, they own it.

The back of the box says "Under exclusive license from Universal Studios." Do you mean that Criterion did the actual transfer that it owns exclusively?

[Ribs]

That was true at the time, but Janus subsequently acquired the film.

[chucktatum]

Could it be Pulp Fiction? Criterion released the laserdisc, it's an evergreen title that would sell super well, and it may be easier/cheaper to license now that Miramax isn't Disney.

[movielocke]

Also, there are likely less than a dozen spine numbers that will never benefit from 4K transfers due to being shot on tape or done digitally in <4K resolution.

it will be controversial, but there will probably be new 'restoration' or upsampling technology that could wind up changing how we think about the limited resolution of early digital and even video-tape sources. Of course any upsampling would be heavily affected as to how good it can be based on the source image (digital native files or image harvest from a tape or film), but never say never.

On the other hand, you're right, it's unlikely to be used for Fishin' with John, but for early Digital Cinema or even tape based productions like Hoop Dreams there will probabbly be technological improvements that could make them 'upgradeable'.

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

Could it be Pulp Fiction? Criterion released the laserdisc, it's an evergreen title that would sell super well, and it may be easier/cheaper to license now that Miramax isn't Disney.

It hasn't been a Disney title for over a decade, and its new owner (Paramount) has already reclaimed some of the higher-profile films they've licensed to Criterion. If Paramount now thinks Days of Heaven is worth keeping in-house they aren't likely to license out Pulp Fiction.

[Blutarsky]

It hasn't been a Disney title for over a decade, and its new owner (Paramount) has already reclaimed some of the higher-profile films they've licensed to Criterion. If Paramount now thinks Days of Heaven is worth keeping in-house they aren't likely to license out Pulp Fiction.

Is Reservoir Dogs also a Paramount property? Since it was produced through another company and Miramax only released, could it potentially avoid Paramount’s clutches. It could benefit from a newer release with the blu ray close to being 15 years old if I am correct.

[Ribs]

It hasn't been a Disney title for over a decade, and its new owner (Paramount) has already reclaimed some of the higher-profile films they've licensed to Criterion. If Paramount now thinks Days of Heaven is worth keeping in-house they aren't likely to license out Pulp Fiction.

Is Reservoir Dogs also a Paramount property? Since it was produced through another company and Miramax only released, could it potentially avoid Paramount’s clutches. It could benefit from a newer release with the blu ray close to being 15 years old if I am correct.

I am not entirely sure why, but that movie is owned entirely by Lionsgate, it wasn’t put out through Miramax on Blu-ray. Again, it is my belief based on the channel and Amores Perros Criterion does have a relationship with them but that seems like a wildly big title for them to give up for a new partner.

[Yaanu]

If/when Criterion releases a UHD title, I'd imagine that they may have no choice but to release it in a Dual Format 4K/BD release. The space requirements for a 4K-resolution film would likely take up the entire disc, and any supplements wouldn't have any room unless Criterion wanted to sacrifice image/audio quality somewhere in there.

I can't say if it's the case for their release of TAMMY AND THE T-REX or other UHD releases, but that's how it works with Vinegar Syndrome's UHD release of RAD. One UHD disc that's just the movie, one BD that includes the movie and its supplements. I'm fairly confident that this is the case for other mainstream UHD releases as well.

I wonder who will be the first to call the BD a coaster. Or have we evolved past the need to preserve shelf space? Yes, I AM still salty about the original Dual Format controversy.

[Ribs]

Arrow does it with everything on one disc - but they also have Fidelity in Motion doing all their 4K discs so there’s always plenty of room to make sure nothing gets visually compromised by it. I don’t necessarily have the same faith in Criterion’s encoders.

[black&huge]

Maybe just maybe Criterion will get FIM to do their UHD's at least. Didn't David M actually initially offer to encode for Criterion at some point but they turned him down?

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

I am not entirely sure why, but that movie is owned entirely by Lionsgate, it wasn’t put out through Miramax on Blu-ray.

Miramax only ever had theatrical rights for Reservoir Dogs, since producer Live Entertainment didn't have a theatrical arm and just wanted the film for their video division. Supposedly they arrived at the budget by estimating that a movie with Harvey Keitel would sell 50,000 units to rental stores at an average of $56 a copy, then they cut that figure roughly in half to leave themselves a profit. A few years later Live became Artisan, which was eventually acquired by Lionsgate. (This is also how Lionsgate ended up with Light Sleeper, released theatrically by Fine Line.) My guess is Miramax's theatrical rights have expired and reverted to Lionsgate.

[flyonthewall2983]

One title rumored is No Country For Old Men. I could see Paramount parting with that title more than something like Pulp Fiction.

[hearthesilence]

Whatever their initial batch ends up being, I imagine a UHD upgrade of The Seventh Seal would be an easy one since a 4K restoration exists. (Besides, isn't that the only title with a 4K restoration in the entire Bergman box set?) Then there's the Fellinis - 8 1/2 would probably be the first, and the regular BD of the 4K restoration is already an improvement over their current standalone.

[Boosmahn]

Just throwing this out there — what if Criterion only upgrades existing titles to 4K if they get new restorations? (Meaning even a recent 4K title like Beau Travail will not get the 4K UHD boost.) That way, they don't have to worry about customers holding out on buying previous releases for a swarth of upgrades they assume is coming.

[yoloswegmaster]

From The Digital Bits:

As we’ve reported previously, Criterion was evaluating 4K releases way back in late 2019, but of course the COVID pandemic happened and a lot of things got put on hold. Now it looks like the company has finally circled back to the subject and may be preparing to announce titles before the end of 2021. I know (from multiple sources) of at least three titles the company is either working on or considering. It’s too early to start discussing the specific titles here at The Bits, because we’d like to see Criterion adopt 4K as much as anyone, and we’d rather not complicate their work for them. But one of the titles celebrates a major anniversary this year, and—if you’re a longtime fan of Criterion—it makes perfect sense for them. In any case, we hope to hear official announcements in the weeks and months ahead.

[FrauBlucher]

Well, that sounds like a lock that Kane is that title for a UHD release, if you can believe Mr Hunt.

[ShellOilJunior]

Whatever their initial batch ends up being, I imagine a UHD upgrade of The Seventh Seal would be an easy one since a 4K restoration exists. (Besides, isn't that the only title with a 4K restoration in the entire Bergman box set?) Then there's the Fellinis - 8 1/2 would probably be the first, and the regular BD of the 4K restoration is already an improvement over their current standalone.

The Seventh Seal makes a lot of sense. It's from a 4K master and the Bergman set that contains the current blu-ray is region free. It's the kind of sure bet they might roll out early in their adoption of UHD.

The Irishman, Roma, and Marriage Story are also from 4K masters and region free.

[black&huge]

they should really pull a left fielder and make Insignificance one of the first wave of 4k titles.

[GiggityGoo]

Since Bill Hunt mentioned that one of the potential UHD titles "celebrates a major anniversary" this year, I went through the list of all the home video releases and checked out the movies that were released on years that ended in "1" or "6". (Assuming a 5- or 10-year interval anniversary.) Nothing really leapt out at me, at least nothing that seemed UHD-worthy, except for "Beauty And The Beast". If they can get their hands on the original negative, a 4K remaster would be amazing.

But then it hit me: maybe Hunt meant that the anniversary was when Criterion released their version? Not the date the film originally hit theaters, but the Criterion home video release date? If that's the case, I'm stumped. I can't seem to find a list of Criterion release dates.

And as much as I love David Lynch, I don't want to see "Inland Empire" in 4K. It was intentionally shot with grainy digital cameras. A Blu-Ray upgrade would be great, but there's no reason to go any further.

As for my hopes/guesses, I'd love to see something that, visually, would be worth the work. So for me, I want them to go back and get the rights to "Armageddon" and give that film the UHD upgrade it deserves.

[DarkImbecile]

But then it hit me: maybe Hunt meant that the anniversary was when Criterion released their version? Not the date the film originally hit theaters, but the Criterion home video release date? If that's the case, I'm stumped. I can't seem to find a list of Criterion release dates.

This feature might be helpful

[soundchaser]

Since Bill Hunt mentioned that one of the potential UHD titles "celebrates a major anniversary" this year, I went through the list of all the home video releases and checked out the movies that were released on years that ended in "1" or "6". (Assuming a 5- or 10-year interval anniversary.) Nothing really leapt out at me, at least nothing that seemed UHD-worthy, except for "Beauty And The Beast". If they can get their hands on the original negative, a 4K remaster would be amazing.

…

I suspect Hunt is talking about Citizen Kane; 80 probably qualifies as a “major anniversary.”

[dwk]

they should really pull a left fielder and make Insignificance one of the first wave of 4k titles.

Not Insignificance, but they did do a new 4K restoration of Walkabout, which was both an early DVD and early-ish Blu-ray. It is also its 50th anniversary.

[bottlesofsmoke]

Kino just announced they'll be releasing The Silence of the Lambs on 4KUHD, so we can rule that out for Criterion.

[bainbridgezu]

As for my hopes/guesses, I'd love to see something that, visually, would be worth the work. So for me, I want them to go back and get the rights to "Armageddon" and give that film the UHD upgrade it deserves.

And here I thought it was just me. Pleased to meet you.