The Lists Project

An ongoing survey of the Criterion Forum membership to create lists of the best films of each decade and genre.
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swo17
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Re: The Lists Project

#2301 Post by swo17 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:06 am

Warren Oates
Debbie Reynolds
Jerry Lewis
Lon Chaney
Dan Duryea
William Bendix
Peter Lorre
Michel Simon
Jean Arthur
Janet Leigh
Jean-Paul Belmondo
Toshiro Mifune
Terence Stamp
Orson Welles
Alain Delon
Klaus Kinski
Nicolas Cage
Samuel L. Jackson
Philip Seymour Hoffman
Tony Leung
Jackie Chan
Isaach De Bankolé

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therewillbeblus
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Re: The Lists Project

#2302 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:27 am

Jerry Lewis would be interesting to deconstruct his own strengths as a comedian, as well as the Tashlin directional style he adopted and how he gelled with various other directors and actors ie Martin (plus domino could finally get a list where Hollywood or Bust isn’t orphaned). I could see Nicolas Cage being another fun one for various reasons but mainly because he’s just so damn divisive.

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TMDaines
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Re: The Lists Project

#2303 Post by TMDaines » Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:15 am

Rayon Vert wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:36 am
Clint Eastwood for me. You could do him as actor and director combined.
I always thought him and De Sica would be most naturally done as actors and directors.

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knives
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Re: The Lists Project

#2304 Post by knives » Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:17 am

therewillbeblus wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:27 am
Jerry Lewis would be interesting to deconstruct his own strengths as a comedian, as well as the Tashlin directional style he adopted and how he gelled with various other directors and actors ie Martin (plus domino could finally get a list where Hollywood or Bust isn’t orphaned). I could see Nicolas Cage being another fun one for various reasons but mainly because he’s just so damn divisive.
I was afraid to mention Cage, but yes, he’d be a ton of fun.

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Mr Sheldrake
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Re: The Lists Project

#2305 Post by Mr Sheldrake » Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:13 am

I was doing some research a few days ago on Catherine Deneueve’s movies in the 2010s. She was 67 at the beginning of the decade and made 22 features and several short films. And these were significant roles, often the star part, still going strong.
Isabelle Huppert is now 67 and in the 2010s made 35 features and several tv shows with no slowing down. Lots of great movie history along their careers.

bamwc2
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Re: The Lists Project

#2306 Post by bamwc2 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:38 am

When is the 2010s thread going to be unlocked?

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domino harvey
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Re: The Lists Project

#2307 Post by domino harvey » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:44 am

As it says in the first post, in a few days

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therewillbeblus
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Re: The Lists Project

#2308 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:41 pm

Re: actor/star project, I'd be interested in doing someone like Buster Keaton and include his shorts, maybe as a mini test project since it wouldn't be super time consuming to go through a lot of his work. I missed out on the Simpsons list, but it seemed like members had a lot of fun sharing in the pleasures of what gags worked well for them and occasionally why, and since a general Comedy list hasn't been done yet (perhaps because it's too broad, hence the Screwball specific one?) I could see it being a refreshing break in a shitty year, less analyzing and more laughing together, and perhaps find a new appreciation for a short that some member is passionate about that's been overlooked. With the recent releases coming from both region A and B companies and the shorts available in each region, it feels doable without many major works left out of accessibility. Anyways, just a passing thought as I happen to return to some Keaton shorts to exercise Sunday self-care

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Ghersh
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Re: The Lists Project

#2309 Post by Ghersh » Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:57 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:05 pm
I’m just going to throw this out there as an idea: what if we tried doing a star-based List interspersed with the genre and auteur lists? Many stars with long careers racked up well over a hundred titles, and it might be a different way to try and gauge interest in these viewing exercises. I was thinking one Hollywood and one International to start with. Lots of good choices for Hollywood talent with decades of appearances (though my first thoughts were Robert Mitchum or Burt Lancaster or Bette Davis since they went the distance until they died) but my mind def went to Michel Piccoli for the latter— I think he’d be a particularly strong choice given how many different national cinemas he appeared in. Thoughts?
I'm late to the party, but I just caught this discussion about possible actor / film stars lists, and Sean Connery jumped to my mind, I think he hasn't been mentioned yet.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: The Lists Project

#2310 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:52 pm

That could be cool, I think that even within the Bond franchise, his developing consciousness to the Bond image drastically affects the strengths of the films across his own entries

I know that per our poll, we'll likely be doing the other tied star if this one goes well, but depending on participation adding more names to a poll down the line is a good idea because there are definitely more stars yet to be thought of/mentioned who are well worth considering (I'll be pushing for Elliott Gould, who hasn't been singled out yet strikes me as the most fascinating star to study). Personally I'm still not convinced that a star project carries enough dynamic interest to invest attention in the way an auteurist project does, but whatever garners greater participation from the masses is a W

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Ghersh
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Re: The Lists Project

#2311 Post by Ghersh » Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:35 am

therewillbeblus wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:52 pm
That could be cool, I think that even within the Bond franchise, his developing consciousness to the Bond image drastically affects the strengths of the films across his own entries

I know that per our poll, we'll likely be doing the other tied star if this one goes well, but depending on participation adding more names to a poll down the line is a good idea because there are definitely more stars yet to be thought of/mentioned who are well worth considering (I'll be pushing for Elliott Gould, who hasn't been singled out yet strikes me as the most fascinating star to study). Personally I'm still not convinced that a star project carries enough dynamic interest to invest attention in the way an auteurist project does, but whatever garners greater participation from the masses is a W
Well I'm a fan of Bond and Connery.

I think whether an actor list works or makes sense depends on the actor. Some are just actors and making a list of their films would feel totally random despite them starring as a connecting factor, some are more like stars / trademarks. Of the names here, Jackie Chan and Jean-Paul Belmondo make sense to me. Welles and Eastwood too, but those are more director lists with some bonus.

Connery was a true movie star while also being a versatile actor and his movies are diverse and different, but they're also Connery films at the same time, from Marnie to The Rock, from Dr. No to Red October.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: The Lists Project

#2312 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:14 am

Ghersh wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:35 am
Well I'm a fan of Bond and Connery.
Um, same.. I was agreeing with you. My point was that, while many people- including Connery and Bond fans- claim that Connery played a static character in each Bond film (setting the standard for a mostly unchanging character), I’ve made the case that he actually shifts his consciousness to the details of the persona, and so Thunderball works best as a total embrace of the character, which -through acceptance of the ridiculous traits and armor of luck, including self-parody- allows him the space to breathe new subtly dramatic life into Bond as well.
Ghersh wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:35 am
I think whether an actor list works or makes sense depends on the actor. Some are just actors and making a list of their films would feel totally random despite them starring as a connecting factor, some are more like stars / trademarks.
I think everyone agrees the stars project only makes sense depending on the actor, yet I remain unconvinced that even the most interesting or versatile star can drum up enough fresh material for analysis. I'm not ready to declare any position though, nor does my skepticism reflect the board's collective enthusiasm, which will guide the future of list projects, as it should.

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domino harvey
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Re: The Lists Project

#2313 Post by domino harvey » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:41 am

I think a Connery List is highly unlikely, bar some unforeseen groundswell. A Bond Film List seems far more likely, though someone else will need to run that one

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Ghersh
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Re: The Lists Project

#2314 Post by Ghersh » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:58 am

therewillbeblus wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:14 am
Um, same.. I was agreeing with you. My point was that, while many people- including Connery and Bond fans- claim that Connery played a static character in each Bond film (setting the standard for a mostly unchanging character), I’ve made the case that he actually shifts his consciousness to the details of the persona, and so Thunderball works best as a total embrace of the character, which -through acceptance of the ridiculous traits and armor of luck, including self-parody- allows him the space to breathe new subtly dramatic life into Bond as well.
Sorry, that was just a statement and not meant as if I think you don't agree.

Actually most if not all Bond fans I know share the opinion that Bond differs a lot between the films. Maybe not the character per se, he's too elemtary and archetypal, but the interpretation of the character through both the film and the actor. For example, Connery in Dr. No is a cynical bastard compared to the more lighthearted gentleman of Goldfinger, and many say he played more half-heartedly and unmotivated in You Only Live Twice while in Never Say Never Again he once again embraced and enjoyed the role, playing a more comedic Bond closer to Roger Moore.

Which list projects happen and which don't is obviously not up to me, but for the reasons I already stated, a Connery list would make more sense to me than 70 or 80% of all other actors. I'd enjoy both a Connery and a Bond list.

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Rayon Vert
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Re: The Lists Project

#2315 Post by Rayon Vert » Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:29 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:11 am
So, what does this mean? Well, below is our schedule through 2022. Other than the Oscar, Horror, and Chabrol lists, which I purposely scheduled, the order of all other post-Allen lists was decided with a random generator

10/18 - 12/18 Pre-Code Hollywood Mini List
12/18 - 02/19 Screwball Comedies Mini List
02/19 - 03/19 Woody Allen Auteur List
03/19 - 05/19 Best Picture Mini List Trio: Nominees (thru 1968) + Nominees (1969-Present) + Winners (All Years)
06/19 - 08/19 Claude Chabrol Auteur List
08/19 - 09/19 Shakespeare Adaptations Mini List
10/19 - 04/20 Horror List Redux
04/20 - 05/20 Billy Wilder Auteur List
06/20 - 07/20 Howard Hawks Auteur List
08/20 - 02/21 Sci-Fi List
03/21 - 04/21 Otto Preminger Auteur List
05/21 - 06/21 Best First Features Mini List
07/21 - 08/21 RW Fassbinder Auteur List
08/21 - 09/21 Akira Kurosawa Auteur List
10/21 - 11/21 Czechoslovak New Wave Mini List
11/21 - 03/22 Musicals List Redux
So I lost the plot here a bit. Is Preminger now coming after Grant?

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domino harvey
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Re: The Lists Project

#2316 Post by domino harvey » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:21 am

Yes. I need to update the sched

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domino harvey
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Re: The Lists Project

#2317 Post by domino harvey » Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:12 pm

I've updated the list. Relevant part is here:
domino harvey wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:34 pm
Guide to all recent and on-going List Projects

Genre & Other Non-Decade Lists

Currently run by: domino harvey
Decisions on the next genres to be tackled are always under discussion here. If you have a suggestion, lobby for it there or contact the current genre list tallier to make your voice heard!

03/21 - 04/21 CARY GRANT (Star List)
04/21 - 06/21 OTTO PREMINGER (Auteur List)
06/21 - 07/21 BEST FIRST FEATURES (Mini-List)
07/21 - 08/21 TBD INTERNATIONAL STAR (Star List)
09/21 - 10/21 RAINER WERNER FASSBINDER (Auteur List)
11/21 - 12/21 JAMES STEWART (Star List)
12/21 - 02/22 AKIRA KUROSAWA (Auteur List)
02/22 - 04/22 CZECHOSLOVAK NEW WAVE (Mini-List)
04/22 - 05/22 TBD INTERNATIONAL STAR (Star List)
06/22 - 10/22 MUSICALS REDUX
11/22 - 12/22 TBD HOLLYWOOD STAR (Star List)
We will do a vote for the International Stars sometime in the next couple months. Same as the Hollywood one, we'll do a list for the winner and the runner up (or tied first, as was the case with the Hollywood vote)

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Rayon Vert
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Re: The Lists Project

#2318 Post by Rayon Vert » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:24 pm

Thanks domino, sounds good. And I didn't know there was a specific thread for the list projects' calendar, so that's good to know also.

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Ghersh
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Re: The Lists Project

#2319 Post by Ghersh » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:40 pm

Good job pushing back Kurosawa, I have to rewatch most of them anyway.

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Never Cursed
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Re: The Lists Project

#2320 Post by Never Cursed » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:46 pm

A question about the first features list: if a director's first credited film was a co-project with another director, does their first solo film also count for the purposes of the list? Or, to be more precise with my inquiry, is Ce Soir ou Jamais eligible for the list, given that it is Michel Deville's first credited solo feature, or is it ineligible given that Deville had earlier co-directed Une balle dans le canon?

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therewillbeblus
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Re: The Lists Project

#2321 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:59 pm

It's not up to me but I think Une balle dans le canon has Deville's fingerprints so clearly embedded in its final product that it's highly likely he was holding the reigns, though maybe that doesn't matter

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knives
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Re: The Lists Project

#2322 Post by knives » Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:59 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:59 pm
It's not up to me but I think Une balle dans le canon has Deville's fingerprints so clearly embedded in its final product that it's highly likely he was holding the reigns, though maybe that doesn't matter
Fellini is another interesting case for this.

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swo17
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Re: The Lists Project

#2323 Post by swo17 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:03 pm

Fellini had no first film. There was his halfth and then his one and a halfth

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Ghersh
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Re: The Lists Project

#2324 Post by Ghersh » Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:10 pm

Right, Fellini is counted in full and half films...

How many films are required in the debut feature list? I'd love to participate, but only if the number isn't too high.

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domino harvey
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Re: The Lists Project

#2325 Post by domino harvey » Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:11 pm

My thinking is first solo film credit unless they are always part of a duo (Dayton/Faris) or there was credit muckery (Blood Simple is it for any of the Coens, period). But West Side Story is eligible for Jerome Robbins only. Feature will be any film over 40 minutes. Borderline cases and pleas for exceptions dealt with case by case as usual

As far as Preminger goes, I've read bits and pieces of the two big Preminger tomes that came out around the same time a while ago, but a lot of the (re)assessment comes from recent times. There was a long, long period where Preminger was viewed as a bad director (probably in part to his well-earned reputation as a total asshole) and was even joked about the same way we joke about Stanley Kramer or Michael Bay here. Times have changed a bit, but there's still some resistance. Certainly he poses a challenge for those who grade filmmakers on a curve of whether they agree with them morally-- he was a voracious defier of conventional mores and was truly progressive in his filmmaking output and to some degree production... and he was also an almost unbearable jerk to everyone he worked with and may very well have enjoyed these thumbs of the nose at rules from a position of raconteur as much as anything noble.

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