Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
- senseabove
- Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:07 am
Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
Witness was high on my list based on my first viewing several months ago... It fell a good ways on the second go-round night before last, alas. It's thoroughly enjoyable and well-done, and I still think "the twist that cost Dietrich an Oscar nomination" is something marvelous (as is Dietrich in general, really), but that first ranking was based on last impressions—the last ten minutes, which are still just an excellent and excellently set up flame out. I could see this rebounding next time—possibly it's just the whodunit rewatch drop, where the adrenaline of figuring it out is gone so the whole thing feels a little less charming, and I'll come 'round to it more next time when I can appreciate it for what it is. Other side notes for this one: the cognitive dissonance of Dietrich looking 5+ years younger than Powers while being 13 years older than him, which surely contemporary audiences knew, and yet the characters (and Sinyard, in his video essay, as well) all treat it as obvious and significant that she's older than he is; the grotesque hands of the Cockney woman vis a vis hands in Fedora... For now, Witness is one more vying for an unexpectedly competitive 10th place, which got even more competitive tonight because...
Arise, My Love is such a weird movie, I don't know how to do anything at first glance but adore it. It starts as a screwball, downshifts into honest-to-god melodrama, takes a brief detour through disaster, and finally metamorphoses into wartime reportage, and somehow I think it all works, save a brief, tone-deaf speech of concentrated propaganda in literally the last thirty seconds. At this point, it's a safe bet that three of my top 10 Wilder movies are directed by Leisen... I'd need to see this again to figure out much more to say about it because it is a ride, but if you have any affection for Midnight or Hold Back the Dawn, I'd say don't miss it.
Arise, My Love is such a weird movie, I don't know how to do anything at first glance but adore it. It starts as a screwball, downshifts into honest-to-god melodrama, takes a brief detour through disaster, and finally metamorphoses into wartime reportage, and somehow I think it all works, save a brief, tone-deaf speech of concentrated propaganda in literally the last thirty seconds. At this point, it's a safe bet that three of my top 10 Wilder movies are directed by Leisen... I'd need to see this again to figure out much more to say about it because it is a ride, but if you have any affection for Midnight or Hold Back the Dawn, I'd say don't miss it.
- senseabove
- Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:07 am
Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
Well now that you mention it it sounds intriguing, but I can't find it on back channels and I doubt the DVD would make it from the UK by Saturday...swo17 wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 2:43 amI had hoped to make room for Emil and the Detectives, which is a very cute movie, but I guess I can't fit in a Wilder-penned film whose charms aren't really in the writing. Everyone should watch it though, if only for the drugged-out Fritz Rasp carnival ride dream sequence
- TMDaines
- Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
- Location: Stretford, Manchester
Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
We watched Avanti this weekend and really enjoyed it too. It was looking like my top 10 might be made up entirely of films watched pre-project, but this one should squeeze in. The only thing that hampered it a little was the jokes about Pamela's weight. I couldn't tell whether the audience was supposed to look at her as being a bit overweight or that was just pure neurosis on her part. She looked to have a perfectly fine figure though, which we didn't understand! I wonder if this was in the original play with a heavier set actress as the lead?senseabove wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 11:27 pmAvanti —— I already had this on the edge of my top five, if not quite confidently; the second time around, it's fighting for a nudge upward. In contrast to One, Two Three, a screwball on uppers, this is the slowest screwball ever made, a wine-drunk screwball that somehow, in its languidity, maintains the bone-deep vivacity of—well, name your favorite Wilder-scripted straight-up screwball, but I'd say Midnight. The morgue sequence is one of the best, simplest scenes Wilder ever (co-)wrote, all the sorrow and irritation and pompousness and earnestness and absurdity and amusement in the breadth of his repertoire bound up in one scene. The fundamental sleight-of-hand here works for me, I think, through its use of the absent parents as proxies, serving self-discovery via incidental, unwitting emulation—and there's a gentle comedy in such rude, beneficent surprise. Wilder's trademark isn't just his cynicism; it's also his (c)rudeness, and his willingness to put his full weight, often riskily, behind it, in emotion and impetus, but also in character and script—elsewhere in Midnight's mercenary romance or Ace's dog-with-a-bone persistence or Fedora's sheer preposterousness, here, e.g, in Lemmon's stereotypically American presumptuousness or the script's weight jokes and the self-exculpatory "everyone's a little bit ethnocentric"-ism. But in the end, I guess the whole thing's earnest plodding just works for me. Somehow the rudeness just makes the warmth of this one a little warmer. It's a comedy for a stifling afternoon if there ever was one. (As a side-note, I had a giggle atas a sly wink to Bluebeard's 8th Wife, the other fancy hotel-set Wilder script...)SpoilerShowthe inverted pajama split in the scene of Wendell Jr. and Pamela's mutually disjointed realization—him wearing the bottom and her wearing the top—
The Front Page falls just short. Again, another decent film, which delivered some great laughs, but it could be cut down by 15 minutes and be much the better for it. Looking forward to rewatching His Girl Friday in the Hawks project to compare.
One, Two, Three was on my watchlist for years and I only finally got around to it. It's another Wilder film that feels a little dated in terms of the crude stereotypes. I enjoyed the tornado of Cagney in the latter third of the film, but a lot of the film sags and some of the repeated jokes don't really have that payoff that other similar films manage to deliver. I'm thinking particularly of To Be or Not to Be in this case. We actually both fell asleep during our first watch through and had to pick it up again the next day. Whether this says more about the film or becoming parents is to be decided.
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
I don't think I've come across anyone who thinks that it's bad per se, just unnecessary. My own low ranking, as I specified before making them, is not that it's one of Wilder's 'worst' films but one of his least interesting. There are many I'd rank below it if I was giving star ratings, but those had some substance to analyze within his thematic wheelhouse and boosted their placement for this project as a study of Wilder (I also realize most probably aren't rating movies here this way, and I really only did for the bottom half). I'm curious why you think the Coens were inspired by this iteration in particular though, which feels like a comment worth explainingsenseabove wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 4:29 amThe Front Page —— Okay, um, I put this on late just because I was tired and figured I'd either knock it off the list or just fall asleep and say I tried, but... I'm just going to say this and then duck and run: the flagging last thirty minutes and the bizarrely persistent homophobia excepted, this movie is good? And if it weren't in the shadow of His Girl Friday, I don't think it would be so dismissed? (And I have a suspicion that the Coen Brothers saw this at an impressionable age?)
- senseabove
- Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:07 am
Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
I think it's definitely hard to parse, due to both a generally increased awareness of differing beauty standards and Wilder's taste for being willfully, pointedly tasteless. Mills did gain weight for the role, and was reportedly unable to gain as much weight as Wilder wanted, despite her best efforts—I've read 15-35 pounds, but it's a little unclear whether the number is how much Wilder wanted her to gain, how much she did gain, or some retrospective exaggeration of either. But as it plays in the film, I've always read it as she's supposed to be a little bit neurotic and Lemmon's supposed to be a lot asshole: e.g. when they first meet on the boat, she, unprompted, says, "I don't know if you noticed but I have a weight problem" and he starts to respond, pauses, looks her down and up with an inscrutable look of observation, and says "Well, yes" (roughly—I'm going from memory there), as if he hadn't noticed before but now that you mention it... and now that you've mentioned, he's going to throw it in her face. It's probably also relevant that the half-decade before this is when ultra-thin became high fashion. Piggott isn't Twiggy, so she's "overweight" by predominant contemporary standards. But it seems to me that Wilder realized Mills' figure wouldn't play that way, and so further emphasized the character's neuroticism; among other things, her costumes, not exactly stylish, are still pretty flattering, when they could certainly have made them less so. But Given Armbruster's demands in the last dialogue, whether Piggott (and who wouldn't have a weight complex with that name) is or isn't "actually" overweight, I think it's supposed to be an element that plays into the bittersweet reality of figuring out the balance between what you want and what you "have to" want.TMDaines wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 7:34 amWe watched Avanti this weekend and really enjoyed it too. It was looking like my top 10 might be made up entirely of films watched pre-project, but this one should squeeze in. The only thing that hampered it a little was the jokes about Pamela's weight. I couldn't tell whether the audience was supposed to look at her as being a bit overweight or that was just pure neurosis on her part. She looked to have a perfectly fine figure though, which we didn't understand! I wonder if this was in the original play with a heavier set actress as the lead?
I don't think "unnecessary" is a thing people would think of it if it weren't for His Girl Friday, though, and "unnecessary" feels to me like a distinctly harsh and more dismissive evaluation than "uninteresting" or "middling Wilder," which, as we've established, is a pretty wide open field. Not that I think it's a masterpiece, but the impression I had going in was pretty much "boy it sure isn't His Girl Friday!" And, caveating that I've yet to watch the Milestone version or read the original play, there are differences that feel interestingly and notably Wilderian—feels like a safe bet that Milestone doesn't have the abruptly comedic erruption of a character shouting "I'm a $2 hooker from Division Street!" Burnett's Mollie in general, and how everything about her is made more explicit and vulgar, yet also more caring and earnest—I feel like there's enough in Wilder's thematic wheelhouse in that character alone to make it a worthwhile watch for WIlder fans, but I think it's perfectly enjoyable in its own right. It's hardly a film I would say is for Wilder completists only, and I could see it cropping up as a suggestion if a friend asked me for underseen older comedies they'd never heard of.therewillbeblus wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 9:57 amI don't think I've come across anyone who thinks that it's bad per se, just unnecessary. My own low ranking, as I specified before making them, is not that it's one of Wilder's 'worst' films but one of his least interesting. There are many I'd rank below it if I was giving star ratings, but those had some substance to analyze within his thematic wheelhouse and boosted their placement for this project as a study of Wilder (I also realize most probably aren't rating movies here this way, and I really only did for the bottom half). I'm curious why you think the Coens were inspired by this iteration in particular though, which feels like a comment worth explaining
And unfortunately, I can't pinpoint too precisely why it reminds me of the Coens—it's been ages since I've seen any of their comedies, and there are too many I've never seen for me to say I really have a handle on them, but it wasn't a fleeting thought. Their manner of blending comedic and violent extremes is already something vaguely Wilderian I think, but the way the gags weave the comedic and crass here, and maybe the particular shade of literal gallows humor this one goes for, especially the Earl Williams character and Austin Pendleton's performance, reminded me of them? I'd need to do a whole lot of rewatching to figure that out. Maybe I'll get back to you when there's a Coen Bros list project!
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
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Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
I also just watched it and I think I'd agree there's a bit of a Coen vibe. Having Charles Durning in it doesn't hurt either.
Well as I said, it's more of a great film that Wilder worked on than a great Wilder film, so don't let the deadline keep you from watching it at some pointsenseabove wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 3:53 amWell now that you mention it it sounds intriguing, but I can't find it on back channels and I doubt the DVD would make it from the UK by Saturday...swo17 wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 2:43 amI had hoped to make room for Emil and the Detectives, which is a very cute movie, but I guess I can't fit in a Wilder-penned film whose charms aren't really in the writing. Everyone should watch it though, if only for the drugged-out Fritz Rasp carnival ride dream sequence
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
It’s up on that site which shall not be named in several different English-subbed copies
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
I guess since I have seen the Milestone version, I felt like that film's blandness was just regurgitated here, only in the 70s where it can have lines about hookers. Otherwise it didn't feel different enough from the original adaptation; not that it needed to be as excitingly unique as the Hawks, but at least noticeably adding to either film to feel "necessary" or "interesting." I also don't get your point- it's "unnecessary" because His Girl Friday does exist, as well as a previous adaptation. That's exactly what makes it unnecessary on a subjective level; as an opinion within context. I think it's strange to assume that people will be able to view this in a vacuum, with unavoidable reminders of film history and cinematic experiences of the others, but I agree that if neither of those adaptations existed that adjective would be an odd signifier. I also didn't mean to dismiss all worth from the film, as I pointed out a few strong perfs in my initial writeup, but the whole package presented as dull and I didn't feel like Wilder added enough of his own strengths to make it stand out, or realized the potential of Matthau in that role. I think when filmmakers remake adaptations for the third time, "uninteresting" begets "unnecessary" as a validated experience on the part of the viewer who has seen the other adaptations. But yeah, I'm not going to go tell Wilder he made a poor choice with an air of superiority, as I'm clearly missing something that others are able to see when viewing it isolated from that context; just as I wouldn't expect him or anyone else to condescend to viewers who found it unnecessary, as that was clearly a risk he knew he was running when making this film after Hawks made his. Also note that I said that people think it's unnecessary, which is different than declaring a film to be unnecessary. My comment was simply responding to yours that assumed you would need to "duck and run" for liking the film when no one here has called it a bad film.senseabove wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 1:47 pmI don't think "unnecessary" is a thing people would think of it if it weren't for His Girl Friday, though, and "unnecessary" feels to me like a distinctly harsh and more dismissive evaluation than "uninteresting" or "middling Wilder," which, as we've established, is a pretty wide open field. Not that I think it's a masterpiece, but the impression I had going in was pretty much "boy it sure isn't His Girl Friday!" And, caveating that I've yet to watch the Milestone version or read the original play, there are differences that feel interestingly and notably Wilderian—feels like a safe bet that Milestone doesn't have the abruptly comedic erruption of a character shouting "I'm a $2 hooker from Division Street!" Burnett's Mollie in general, and how everything about her is made more explicit and vulgar, yet also more caring and earnest—I feel like there's enough in Wilder's thematic wheelhouse in that character alone to make it a worthwhile watch for WIlder fans, but I think it's perfectly enjoyable in its own right. It's hardly a film I would say is for Wilder completists only, and I could see it cropping up as a suggestion if a friend asked me for underseen older comedies they'd never heard of.
I feel that you're making a good point that if we separate this film from the others it can stand on its two feet, and as someone who tries to do that and carries a similar torch in other instances, I'm with you - and wish I could do that same here. Perhaps those differences you're highlighting will stand out to me more on a rewatch side-by-side with the MIlestone, as I believe there are more than I detected in my viewing. But to label those who are reminded of the others and feel it's "unnecessary" as taking a "distinctly harsh and more dismissive evaluation than [simply using the word] 'uninteresting,'" refuses to acknowledge the linked relationship between those two terms of feelings that result in the opinion of the film as unnecessary to begin with.
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
Excellent recommendation. I was hooked from the extended opening sequence, which reminded me of a silent youthful playfulness out of Deville's La Petite Bande, and the film didn't let up from there. Fritz Rasp's unique, alien presence is also a riot planted outside of the silents I'm familiar with into the realist dimensions of sound, like a cartoon come to life. As you alluded to, it's a visual exhibition of talent, and that hallucinogenic sequence is remarkable. The script is still pretty sharp and the quick-witted dialogue allows its characters to fall into their amusing, play-adult attitudes with ease. I could see this making a 30s or a Youth list for me, if those weren't already behind us.swo17 wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 2:43 amI had hoped to make room for Emil and the Detectives, which is a very cute movie, but I guess I can't fit in a Wilder-penned film whose charms aren't really in the writing. Everyone should watch it though, if only for the drugged-out Fritz Rasp carnival ride dream sequence
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
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Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
But will you vote for it here? (You're almost talking me into it!)
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
I already submitted my list last week, but I probably would have otherwise (though that would knock out poor Ninotchka which, for all its flaws, has some dynamite jokes)
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
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Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
Which reminds me, lists are due on the 31st!
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
Re: Emil and the Detectives, It's difficult to tell Wilder's specific contributions, but my favorite 'script' moment is
SpoilerShow
when one of the boys acting as a sleuth confidently shouts into the radio, in an adult tone, "The enemy is in [room] number 9!" and then a moment later, when he needs to repeat it, he reverts to thinking as a child does - looking up and counting silently to himself, mouth moving, to get to "nine."
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
Fun fact: six of the eight lists I’ve received so far have a different film listed first. None of them are for the film you’re thinking of. Some real noble effort at cooking the results here so far, in case you were sitting out because you thought your list was either too boring or too weird— either option could heavily influence the results, so submit a list!
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
Well now I feel boring
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
I for one find your decision to list the Emperor Waltz in spots one, two, three, and seven on your ballot to be quite brave
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
Shit, I thought I put demonlover in at least two of those spots
- senseabove
- Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:07 am
Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
Buddy Buddy —— If this movie has any buried charms, they eluded me. As a late Wilder fan, my main reactions were that this feels like everyone involved is on autopilot, the production quality is embarrassingly mediocre, and the few laughs I had definitely felt at it, not with it. Also, as an aside, it felt like the foley sounds were cartoonishly over-the-top? It's like the movie is so bland they thought they could distract us with sound effects... Are they supposed to be funny? I agree with Wilder himself on this one: "If I met all my old pictures in a crowd, personified, there are some that would make me happy and proud, and I would embrace them ... but Buddy Buddy I'd try to ignore." With two features left, I will be thoroughly surprised if this isn't dead last on my long list.
Mauvaise Graine —— A sufficiently enjoyable, often but inconsistently interesting early 30s crime movie. Daddy cuts off his playboy son, who consequently stumbles into a life of Grand Theft Auto and... tries to unionize the car thieves? It does have a few of those perfectly incongruous, earnest moments that feel like the Wilder touch, and, oddly, a few moments feel lifted from Lang—not a director I would have otherwise expected Wilder to have much overlap with, but maybe those touches are the co-director's influence. I can't say you should run out and see it, but I'd say it warrants some interest even for folks that aren't being Wilder completists.
Mauvaise Graine —— A sufficiently enjoyable, often but inconsistently interesting early 30s crime movie. Daddy cuts off his playboy son, who consequently stumbles into a life of Grand Theft Auto and... tries to unionize the car thieves? It does have a few of those perfectly incongruous, earnest moments that feel like the Wilder touch, and, oddly, a few moments feel lifted from Lang—not a director I would have otherwise expected Wilder to have much overlap with, but maybe those touches are the co-director's influence. I can't say you should run out and see it, but I'd say it warrants some interest even for folks that aren't being Wilder completists.
- Drucker
- Your Future our Drucker
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Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
Rewatched Ninotchka last night and it confirmed for me that it's a masterpiece and will be in my top 5. It has all the makings of so many Wilder films, like three Communists on assignment who are lovely, but unlike say the comic relief from Stalag 17, I don't feel they overstay their welcome. Garbo is hysterical through the first 50 minutes before she cracks a smile, and the ending is romantic and perfect.
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
The first part of Ninotchka is such pitch-perfect comedy that I had to include it on my list even if the second half doesn't sustain that tempo. It may be the wittiest comic writing Wilder has ever done.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
The good news is that for the first time in forever, we've already reached and surpassed the ten ballot minimum. Gloom and doom works, folks. But let's aim for more than just above the minimum, gang!
- senseabove
- Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:07 am
Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
The Seven Year Itch —— Monroe is, as usual, uncannily fascinating as a Performer of Performance, and the mockery of Ewell's oblivious self-absorption is amusing, but the self-absorption itself—the monologues, the obsessions, the over-misinterpretations—is just tiring.
Emepror Waltz —— This actually starts out good, and has surprising moments with some interesting uses of space and composition scattered throughout—it made me think that Wilder's fundamental compositional style could be described as...illustrational? Still figuring out what I mean by that—but narratively, this slows to a crawl real quick. The peak is undoubtedly when someone in the peanut gallery frame story of the first 2/3s describes Bing Crosby with the line "ears like a bat and the rest of him like a plucked duck."
And with that, I've seen every feature Wilder directed. Now for a few rewatches this weekend...
Emepror Waltz —— This actually starts out good, and has surprising moments with some interesting uses of space and composition scattered throughout—it made me think that Wilder's fundamental compositional style could be described as...illustrational? Still figuring out what I mean by that—but narratively, this slows to a crawl real quick. The peak is undoubtedly when someone in the peanut gallery frame story of the first 2/3s describes Bing Crosby with the line "ears like a bat and the rest of him like a plucked duck."
And with that, I've seen every feature Wilder directed. Now for a few rewatches this weekend...
- senseabove
- Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:07 am
Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
Picking up on the previous discussion of Sunset Boulevard and Joe's motivations at the end...
The movie plays devotion and bitterness against each other from start to finish, and the Wilderian magic isn't just how gallingly bitter the movie is about Hollywood—there are plenty of versions of that story, from The Life and Death of 9413: a Hollywood Extra to What Price Hollywood? and its iterations to The Player—but that it also celebrates what makes these people—and us—love Hollywood, too, what we love about it and what that love costs the people on all three sides of the camera and the screen, most succinctly summarized in the "parable" of the maharaja who comes all the way to Hollywood to beg a silk stocking of Desmond, then hangs himself with it. It's a devotion that can be ruinous when it dissipates, and requires more than a bit of actual or willful innocence to keep up, a distinction that, when Joe challenges her, causes Norma to ask with absolutely chilling disbelief: "What right…. You want me to tell you?" That's the same interplay of emotions, with a different cant, at the core of Joe telling Betty one thing while he knows it's a misdirection: she's asking, but he's refusing to tell her. She's still got the dreams, the devotion, and he's not going to disabuse her of them (because he knows you can't really), nor is he going to try to feign his own, which he'd have to do to pursue the dream with her. His dreams are gone now; but he can't ask her to give up Hollywood, while he knows he has to give it up or, staying with Norma, he’ll end up as some version of Norma, addicted to something he can’t sustain, no one can sustain, without a Max, or a studio, to build the illusion.
And one more note: others have mentioned the genre shiftiness, how it flits between melodrama, comedy, noir—but the stretch from Joe's arrival to New Years is straight up horror of the Old Dark House tradition: the unexpected refuge, the double necessity (one secret and one coerced) to remain, the seeming foreknowledge (“I made up your bed this afternoon”), the mysterious rite observed, the mistaken comfort before the shocking reveal of how bad things are... All the imagined and the ignored death in Hollywood, on and off screen, is wound up in that sequence. It's not the present haunted by a past, though, no ghosts or hidden cellars with neglected relatives or relic-bearing crypts—it's the past haunted by a present.
The movie plays devotion and bitterness against each other from start to finish, and the Wilderian magic isn't just how gallingly bitter the movie is about Hollywood—there are plenty of versions of that story, from The Life and Death of 9413: a Hollywood Extra to What Price Hollywood? and its iterations to The Player—but that it also celebrates what makes these people—and us—love Hollywood, too, what we love about it and what that love costs the people on all three sides of the camera and the screen, most succinctly summarized in the "parable" of the maharaja who comes all the way to Hollywood to beg a silk stocking of Desmond, then hangs himself with it. It's a devotion that can be ruinous when it dissipates, and requires more than a bit of actual or willful innocence to keep up, a distinction that, when Joe challenges her, causes Norma to ask with absolutely chilling disbelief: "What right…. You want me to tell you?" That's the same interplay of emotions, with a different cant, at the core of Joe telling Betty one thing while he knows it's a misdirection: she's asking, but he's refusing to tell her. She's still got the dreams, the devotion, and he's not going to disabuse her of them (because he knows you can't really), nor is he going to try to feign his own, which he'd have to do to pursue the dream with her. His dreams are gone now; but he can't ask her to give up Hollywood, while he knows he has to give it up or, staying with Norma, he’ll end up as some version of Norma, addicted to something he can’t sustain, no one can sustain, without a Max, or a studio, to build the illusion.
And one more note: others have mentioned the genre shiftiness, how it flits between melodrama, comedy, noir—but the stretch from Joe's arrival to New Years is straight up horror of the Old Dark House tradition: the unexpected refuge, the double necessity (one secret and one coerced) to remain, the seeming foreknowledge (“I made up your bed this afternoon”), the mysterious rite observed, the mistaken comfort before the shocking reveal of how bad things are... All the imagined and the ignored death in Hollywood, on and off screen, is wound up in that sequence. It's not the present haunted by a past, though, no ghosts or hidden cellars with neglected relatives or relic-bearing crypts—it's the past haunted by a present.
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
I (unsurprisingly) agree with the horror reading, and I’m glad not to be the only initiator of such comparisons normally received by crickets
- Dr Amicus
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Re: Auteur List: Billy Wilder - Discussion and Defenses
Managed to squeeze in one more previously unseen film before the deadline, probably my last pre-deadline:
Sabrina: I'd seen the Pollack remake when it came out, in the brief period when Julia Ormond was the next big thing, and remembered the vague outline of the plot and that it was a passable, largely forgettable way to spend an afternoon. This is much better though and will make an appearance on my list. Bogart and Hepburn make for a fine romantic pair, Holden has fun with the secondary lead but many of the laughs come from Walter Hampden (his reveal in Bogart's closet got a big laugh) and Marcel Hillaire. Probably one of Wilder's sweeter films - but even here there are dark edges (a suicide attempt early on surprised me - I can't remember if there is an equivalent scene in the remake).
Sabrina: I'd seen the Pollack remake when it came out, in the brief period when Julia Ormond was the next big thing, and remembered the vague outline of the plot and that it was a passable, largely forgettable way to spend an afternoon. This is much better though and will make an appearance on my list. Bogart and Hepburn make for a fine romantic pair, Holden has fun with the secondary lead but many of the laughs come from Walter Hampden (his reveal in Bogart's closet got a big laugh) and Marcel Hillaire. Probably one of Wilder's sweeter films - but even here there are dark edges (a suicide attempt early on surprised me - I can't remember if there is an equivalent scene in the remake).