Hirokazu Kore-eda

[barbarella satyricon]

I was going to wait till I viewed a few more Kore-edas. But I couldn’t wait, over the weekend I watched Like Father, Like Son.

Just a quick post to chime in and say that Like Father, Like Son is one of a handful of films, over decades of film-watching, that brought me to a full-on ugly-cry. (Might be a fun topic for another thread...) I've gotten around to seeing only a few of the Kore-eda's here and there, but this one remains my favorite.

And since you posted earlier that you also had Nobody Knows lined up for viewing: I watched that one for the first time a few months ago, after meaning to get to it for years, and the spoiler box below contains only my general reaction to it, which you can of course ignore if you don't want to go into your viewing influenced by anyone's take.

SpoilerShow

After having it on my viewing list for years (close to decades since its initial release), and having read and heard so much good about it, I was surprised at how much the filmmaking choices (plot elements introduced in the second half; the way the story was being told onscreen) began to lose and even repel me as the film went on, and how much I disliked it by the end. I'd have to consider it more carefully if I were to defend the position, but for a quick take, I'd say that the director loses his way, maybe even loses courage, in trying to depict the most awful details of the entire tragedy in a manageable (not too harrowing) way for a general audience, and ends up aestheticizing ("prettifying" may be too much, but that's what I'm close to thinking) some moments in a way that feels, I don't know, dishonest. I just remember thinking that the film felt both manipulative and intentionally muddled. Maybe it was just an off movie-watching day, or a case of skewed expectations, but I'd go so far as to rank this among all-time duds for me, let's say relative to general critical reception.

[Michael Kerpan]

Colin -- One amazing thing about Like Father (Japanese title is more like "and so, at last, I become a father") is that it really tells so many different stories at once. It all depends on what character you focus on as you watch (and rewatch) the show. Perhaps, being a father, the story I follow most is that of the uptight businessman who starts the show as no more than a nominal father and gradually learns what being a father is all about (or at least begins that process, showing the will to continue along the path). But one can follow the film from many other perspectives -- and none of them is the wrong one. I love all the performances in this -- and can't see any reason to downplay any of the them, child or adult.

Barbarella -- I've had my ups and downs with Nobody Knows and have at points felt some of what you say about it. Part of it was a reaction to the (at one point at least) critical elevation of this over all his other work. Part was due to intrinsic factors. But I have to say that, on my last rewatchings, I have come to appreciate the things it does well (and even wonderfully) and discount the niggles that could potentially still bother me. In some ways, it IS more manipulative than some of Kore'eda's other work. But, at the same time, it so often seems so real (even painfully real). There is the semblance of real (crushing) disappointment, real pain, real sadness, and (occasional) real joy. And the children seem so believable throughout. All I can suggest is that you see as many of the other as-yet-unseen-by-you Kore'eda films as you can find -- and then come bacvk to this in a few years. Just to see if your perspective might change. I think it took at least three for me (over the course of a few years) before my feelings began to solidify -- but I never had as adverse a reaction as yours. So I don't know. I will say I don't think it offers as much "complexity" as Like Father (or Still Walking).

[colinr0380]

Colin -- One amazing thing about Like Father (Japanese title is more like "and so, at last, I become a father") is that it really tells so many different stories at once. It all depends on what character you focus on as you watch (and rewatch) the show. Perhaps, being a father, the story I follow most is that of the uptight businessman who starts the show as no more than a nominal father and gradually learns what being a father is all about (or at least begins that process, showing the will to continue along the path). But one can follow the film from many other perspectives -- and none of them is the wrong one. I love all the performances in this -- and can't see any reason to downplay any of the them, child or adult.

Apropos of your quote about the title, the next time I watch the film I really want to focus on that scene in which Ryota and his brother go to visit their parents and we get to see a portrait of a relatively disillusioning father figure (at least disillusioning as filtered through Ryota's specific perspective of feeling like the less-favoured son!). Maybe that is the reason for Ryota's buttoned up and cold nature, that he does not want to follow the 'example' of his lackadaisical appearing gambling fan of a father and instead does not want to ask for help, live off of or be a burden on others (as he feels that his father is being towards his mother) and wants to foster the same approach of fending for themselves in his son. Yet by the end of the film Ryota begins to open up to a way of thinking about how families are about supporting each other and allowing and accepting vulnerabilities without a need for a sense of duty or guilt to be felt for providing that help, or any particular need for that attention to even be reciprocated to have given that love unconditionally (as with Keita and his photographs, which I wonder was a reference back to Yang-Yang in Edward Yang's Yi Yi). It is enough that helping each other (or tactfully ignoring the father cheerfully racking up those gambling debts!) is a form of expressing your love for them instead.

It is a perfect little jewel of a scene which stands alone and in isolation from the rest of the action surrounding it, but says so much about the surrounding action at the same time.

[Michael Kerpan]

Colin -- It is countless little scenes like that which make (for me) Kore'eda's films almost infinitely re-watchable.

[FrauBlucher]

Colin -- It is countless little scenes like that which make (for me) Kore'eda's films almost infinitely re-watchable.

This is so spot on. From my short time watching his films recently, it's those little scenes with the subtle messaging that makes me appreciate his films so much. As Colin pointed out, the straw, and the toy robot scenes, as well as others like when Ryoto told Ryusei how he should use his chopsticks and the Saiki family bathing scene and there are others that makes this all the more poignant and re-watchable. I would have no problem re-watching any of his films that I just watched.

Colin, as far as the baby switch premise I tend to agree that it's a bit of a stretch but it gave us a very important scene later in the film when Ryoto went to return the money to the nurse. Ryoto witnessed how her step-son challenged him. At that point it seems to trigger something in Ryoto's thinking and attitude. God damnit I love this film.

[colinr0380]

That scene with the nurse is wonderful (particularly for having the 'colder' and more 'dispassionate' Ryota being the only member of either of the families that would be able to go and confront her, and understand her actions. So his 'personality flaw' becomes a virtue in that situation) and is probably the companion scene to the one with Ryota's father where is able to witness other interactions between parents and children from a more distanced perspective.

[Michael Kerpan]

I wish his Going My Home had become more available. This mini-series is probably a "lesser" work than any of his feature films. (Some elements could be described as "whimsical" -- not something one expects from him). And yet it too had many wonderful moments. Hana yori mo naho has routinely been dismissed as "lesser" -- but I honestly don't understand this. It is an intelligent and thoughtful rejoinder to the fundamentally toxic beauty of the Chushingura saga (immortalized over and over). And it too is filled with countless wonderful moments.

Sidelight -- The Japanese word for "fleeting moment" is "tamayura". And Tamayura is the name of one of the most thoroughly Kore'eda-esque anime series I've ever seen. It tells the story of a girl who lost her father in elementary school -- and remains almost frozen in depression until her last year of middle school. The series traces her recovery. She moves with her mother and little brother to her parent's home town (a coastal town north of Hiroshima) where she reconnects with old friends (from childhood visits long ago), makes new friends, regains her love of photography (a hobby she shared with her father, but abandoned after his death), and eventually begins to look ahead to life after high school. Perhaps it is not surprising that seasons 2 and 3 of this wonderful (low-key but heartfelt and moving) series are presently unavailable for (legal) streaming (and have never gotten subbed home video releases).

[FrauBlucher]

I watched two more Koreeda films. While I pretty much loved everything I've seen prior, these two not as much. Hana and Nobody Knows, I'll start with the former. I liked it but didn't find it as interesting as his other films. I don't think of it as "lesser" as has been suggested, and I agree with Michael's assessment..

It is an intelligent and thoughtful rejoinder to the fundamentally toxic beauty of the Chushingura saga (immortalized over and over). And it too is filled with countless wonderful moments.

including many humorous moments. It just didn't grab me emotionally, as say Still Walking or Like Father, Like Son.

As for Nobody Knows, how do I say this, I was miserable. It overwhelming affected me. I have nothing bad to say about Koreeda's choices in this film. I didn't feel manipulated. Although when the landlord's wife enter's the children's apartment you would think that would start the ball rolling to a resolution. This was my only eyebrow raising moment in the film. I know it's based on a real situation, which I'm sure was far worse than what Koreeda portrayed. But nonetheless, I found it emotionally devastating. Again, as Michael said about Nobody Knows which I couldn't have said better..

There is the semblance of real (crushing) disappointment, real pain, real sadness, and (occasional) real joy. And the children seem so believable throughout.

And the fact that it's children really destroys me and makes me feel the way I did and do about this film.


my updated list...
Still Walking
Like Father, Like Son
Shoplifters
After Life
The Third Murder
Hana
Nobody Knows

Like Father, Like Son and Shoplifter for me are really tied behind Still Walking

[vsski]

I enjoy reading how others feel about Kore-eda-san’s movies, as he has long been a favorite director of mine and I’m looking forward to the new movie which I have not seen yet.
Reading your comments and list FrauBlucher, I’d be very interested to hear what you think about “After the Storm”, when you get to see it.
When I first saw it it had a huge impact on me, likely because of what I was going through personally at the time, but looking at some of your favorites on this list, I could see you liking this as well, given parent children dynamics and failed couple relationships that are central to “ After the Storm”as well.

[Michael Kerpan]

FrauBlucher -- For me, I cherish each of the films as unique "treasures" -- which makes it virtually impossible to rank them. Each gives me something special. I have a big (never-to-be-written-down) list of "favorites" -- and all his films are on it. If I had to pick an "honorary favorite", it would have to be either Maborosi or After Life, not because I necessarily love them more --but because they were the earliest things I saw (and made the biggest "new" impression).

I feel much the same about Nobody Knows as I do about Shiota's Gaichu, Takahata's Grave of the Fireflies and Bresson's Mouchette. These are very painful to watch, yet still incredible. Movies like this sort of stand in their own category. I find these especially hard to rank against less "painful" films. They are not films I can watch very often, then again they are not films I can ever really forget. (Air Doll fits in this category too).

After the Storm (Deeper than the Sea) is another wonderful film, and so is Our Little Sister and...

[vsski]

I have to agree with Michael, for me I have liked every Kore-eda film and neither bothered ranking them, as I have enjoyed everyone of them. Some had a greater impact on first viewing than others, but often it had to do with the mood or personal situation I was in at the time.

I saw Maborosi right when it was first shown in theaters more than 25 years ago and it had a huge impact, so it will always have a special place in my heart (the fact that I had a huge crush on the lead actress didn’t hurt either).

I think Kore-eda films are infinitively rewatchable and every time I at least pick up something else. Just a wonderful filmmaker all around.

[Michael Kerpan]

vsski -- We first saw Maborosi on video. Even seen in that way, it made an immense impression. I think I first encountered Suzuki's films thanks to Makiko Esumi -- since she starred in Pistol Opera.

Infinitely rewatchable -- describes my feeling as well.

[vsski]

…Pistol Opera…

Now here is a movie I would love to see on Blu Ray

[FrauBlucher]

Michael, I am no way downplaying any of Koreeda’s films that I’ve seen. It’s not a list ranking their worthiness but instead the emotional impact of my viewing experience. I don’t think I would be able to put a list together otherwise

vsski, I will put “After the Storm” on my list.

One comment I left off about Hana is that it felt very theatrical to me. Am I on the right track with that?

[Michael Kerpan]

FrauBlucher -- No criticism intended. Once upon a time, long ago I may have tried to rank Kore'eda's movies too -- but I gave up eventually -- because I found that any order I came up with was always totally unstable.

I think Kore'eda created Hana from scratch -- no theatrical source as far as I know. But since most Chushingura films feel pretty "theatrical", I suppose it might be appropriate for Hana to feel that way too. I feel it is akin to Yoji Yamada's samurai films (and even to some of his non-samurai ones, perhaps). It has a lighter "feel" than many of K's other films. But I think it still packs a bit of an emotional punch -- and sometimes it's nice to see a happy ending for characters one likes.

I look forward to your views on Our Little Sister and Kiseki -- also often sort of looked down on as "lighter" -- when you finally get to THEM.

[Kram]

After some recent Blu-ray putchases I have been rewatching many Kore-eda films and watching some for the first time. The most surprising was Air doll. As much as I enjoy the 'family' themed films I really enjoy Kore-eda films that approach his themes from an alternative perspective. I'm going to re-watch Air Doll to see my impressions on a second viewing.

The two films that I totally rediscovered were his first two features,; Maborosi and After Life. I always remembered loving these films and had seen them several times but seeing them.on Blu-ray I cant believe I let these films fade from memory. In particular Maborosi, I can't recall ever being so captivated and surprised by a film I was already familiar with.

So here is my question, does anyone have any recommendations for East Asian films that have a similar tone and style to early Kore-eda. I realise trying to recreate a personal reaction to any film with other films is a fools errand but interested to hear if anyone can suggest anything.

[Michael Kerpan]

Kram -- Nothing quite the same, but here are some possibilities to check out.

Naomi Kawase's Moe no Suzaku and Sharasojyu
Miwa Nishikawa's Wild Berries and Sway
Naoko Ogigami's Seagull Diner and Glasses
JEONG Jae-eun's Take Care of My Cat

[artfilmfan]

Another vote for Take Care of My Cat.

Other possibilities for revisiting or checking out for the first time:

- Scattered Clouds
- Dust in the Wind
- Tokyo.Sora

[yoloswegmaster]

Kore-eda's new Netflix show titled "Makanai: Cooking for the Maiko House" will be released on January 12. It's based on a manga called "Kiyo in Kyoto".

[Michael Kerpan]

There was a reasonably cute animated adaptation of Kiyo in Kyoto (oddly released at the rate of one episode per month by NHK). I strongly suspect that Kore"eda's version will supersede this.

[Michael Kerpan]

Starting tomorrow on Netflix, The Makanai: Cooking for the Maiko House: https://www.netflix.com/title/81325501

[Michael Kerpan]

One more episode to go on Makanai. A very pleasant series that might be a bit confined by manga-imposed plotting beyond Kore'eda's control. Still the best moments are quite enjoyable. One episode dealt with making dashi (for kitsune udon) from scratch -- because our young cook's best friend (a soon to full-fledged maiko) has a cold. The next episode had a graduate of the maiko house (a top-tier geiko) putting together a performance for an upcoming festival play -- about zombie maiko. If you have Netflix, why not give this a look.

Instead of watching Makanai today, my wife and I ventured out to see Koree'da's Broker. Perhaps not up to the level of Shoplifters, but a far more appealing and humane look at folks on the underside of Korea's economy than Bong's Parasite. As typical with Kore'eda, all the main characters became more "complicated" (and worthy of sympathy) as the story of a more-complicated-than-expected "baby selling" journey unfolded. The cast was quite good (as one would expect). It was nice seeing BAE Doona -- she seems to be a go-to actress for playing policewomen these days... Only one other person in the audience at the early (4 PM) show. The Kendall Landmark was a bit less of a ghost town by the time we left (but still was hardly "bustling").

[Walter Kurtz]

Next up in the CFD Series...

https://www.amazon.com/Kore-eda-Hirokaz ... ks&sr=1-35

[zedz]

One more episode to go on Makanai. A very pleasant series that might be a bit confined by manga-imposed plotting beyond Kore'eda's control.

Agreed, the constraints of the originating format are apparent, but this is a very charming production, and has a formal sophistication that distinguishes it from its streaming brethren. For instance, there's often an overlapping, Altmanesque bustle to crowded scenes, but there are also 'empty' contemplative sequences of focussed performance (dance, cooking), and frequent elision of conventionally dramatic scenes.

It's also a great Kyoto film. if you know the city reasonably well you can recognize many of the locations (e.g. Nishiki Market, the Shirakawa River, the south side of Kyoto Station) and understand the paths characters are taking through the city.

[Michael Kerpan]

It's also a great Kyoto film.

It makes my wife and I feel very nostalgic... We want to go back.