Rainer Werner Fassbinder

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triodelover
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#301 Post by triodelover » Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:26 am

HistoryProf wrote:I realize BA explores the 1920s and the transition from Weimar excess into Nazi fascism....I just meant that it fascinates me as - from what i've read - as an honest look at the period that laid the foundation for the horrors of the Third Reich. It's easy to sit back and coolly understand that resentment of the Treaty of Versailles started it all and then crashed headlong into the despair of the Great Depression, giving a power mad dictator like Hitler his opening...but it's a much different thing to try and understand the average joe in those crucial years - and it seems to me that Fassbinder went farther than most in trying to uncover that peculiarly "German" mentality.
It wasn't just resentment of Versailles. The back-breaking reparations demanded by Lloyd-George and Clemenceau (and supported by the myopic Wilson in exchange for lip service to his Fourteen Points and the League) made certain that Weimar would be a failed experiment. It took a wheelbarrow of marks to buy bread in the early '20s in Berlin. The stage was set for the man on a horse long before the Great Depression. The average German was fueled by more than hatred for the November criminals. Germany suffered the hunger and deprivation the rest of the world found in 1929 a full decade earlier.

I do agree that Fassbinder in BA gives insight into how the average guy - if Franz can be considered average - reacted to the events of the late Weimar Republic. I don't agree that it's a peculiarly German mentality. I find some rather uncomfortable parallels in the Tea Party movement and I think they arise from some very similar situations - the sense that things are out of their control, the rampant xenophobia, the hatred of government in its current incarnation while looking for a leader who validates their world view and feelings about themselves. If Fassbinder were still alive, I wonder if he wouldn't be making films about America?

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knives
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#302 Post by knives » Fri May 14, 2010 1:14 am

Are the Tango DVD releases all tidy? DVDBeaver seems to be down.

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Jean-Luc Garbo
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#303 Post by Jean-Luc Garbo » Sat May 15, 2010 10:31 am

I watched Third Generation last night and it looked great.

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Lemmy Caution
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#304 Post by Lemmy Caution » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:09 pm

Enjoyed back to back nights with 2 Fassbinders I had never heard of -- Despair (1978) and I Only Wanted You To Love Me (a 1976 Tv drama). Of course Fassbinder was ridiculously productive, so it's easy to overlook some of his films. But Despair stars Dirk Bogarde, is based on a Nabokov novel adapted for the screen by Tom Stoppard. I'm unsure why this is not better known. WhileI Only Wanted You has a mere 237 votes on IMDb.

Really it's Bogarde's (and of course Fassbinders) show. A few Fassbinder regulars turn up, with Volker Spengler having a fair sized role as the "cousin" of Bogard's wife, with both characters being played rather broadly for laughs. The film is like an absurdist farce of Trading Places. It often seemed on the verge of becoming a Joe Orton style farce or one of those odd satiric Vonnegut adaptations -- which I'd guess is the Stoppard effect.

I like how the main character's name has been switched from the book to Hermann Hermann for the film, in a nice echo of Nabokov's Humbert Humbert. Though in the film it's really unclear if HH is really his name or just an error as someone gets confused if Hermann is his first or last name, and, with his identity starting to fragment (and double), he blithely accepts the repetitive name.
Set in Berlin in 1929 and 30, there are certain echoes of Berlin Alexanderplatz, along with some Sirkian Willy Wonkiness, plus late brief homages to van Gogh and likely even a sly joke making Bogarde into an on-the-lam Bogart.
I really think Fassbinder enjoyed working with Bogarde.
Oddly for the strong personalities behind the project the theme and story are a little uncertain in the film.

A very eye-catching cover, though it seems to promise some sort of Clockwork Orangeade that just isn't on the menu:
Image

I Only Wanted You To Love Me is pretty affecting. Our hero just can never get beyond his frosty mother and his patronizing father, despite a job and marriage. Bad results ensue. I liked the way the main character is always bringing flowers to those he cares for, and how he is always facing the wrong direction when waiting for his wife. He tries too hard to make others happy, often creating problems by his generosity, and frequently gets blindsided by life. As with Despair, lots of mirror shots, slatted light from window blinds to visualize internal turmoil, plus circular camera pans, odd doorway framings, and other assorted Fassbinder trademarks.

Image

Both films were released on Dvd by Olive Films mid- June 2011.
Some brief discussion of the films starting on Page 9 of the Olive Film thread.
Always good to have more Fassbinder.

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eerik
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#305 Post by eerik » Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:18 am

Both films are also scheduled for a Blu-ray release in Germany. Bluray-disc.de lists both releases with English and German audiotracks.

Despair
I Only Wanted You To Love Me

j99
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#306 Post by j99 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:00 am

Unfortunately the Olive release of Despair has no extras and omits the documentary The Cinema And Its Double which is available on the upcoming German release. I'm not sure however whether the documentary will be German language only.

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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#307 Post by j99 » Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:19 pm

eerik wrote:Both films are also scheduled for a Blu-ray release in Germany. Bluray-disc.de lists both releases with English and German audiotracks.

Despair
If anyone is intending buying this edition, would it be possible to list the specs? In particular whether the English audio has subtitles and whether they are removable, and if there are English subs for the documentary? Thanks in advance.


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martin
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#309 Post by martin » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:02 am

I have the two German Blu-rays:

Despair
Main title: 25fps, 1080i. Two audiotracks (German and English). No subs.
Documentary (70 min.): 25 fps 1080i. One audiotrack (English/French/German). Forced German subs when audio is not German.

Ich will doch nur, dass ihr mich liebst
Main title: 25fps, 1080i. German audio. No subs.
Documentary (60 min.): 25 fps 1080i. German audio. No subs.

I don't know why these are 25 fps 1080i? A bit disappointing, I suppose. Anyhow, the quality is fine.

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Peacock
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#310 Post by Peacock » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:09 pm

They were probably shot at 25fps like Berlin Alexanderplatz...

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knives
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#311 Post by knives » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:11 pm

There's no reason for Despair to have been shot 25 fps though especially when considering the American disc is 24 and suffers none of the problems typical of doing that change.

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Peacock
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#312 Post by Peacock » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:26 pm

But wasn't it a TV movie? And what are these problems? The World Blu is changed from 25fps to 24, same with Antichrist, and the Criterion DVD of Alexanderplatz, I didn't see any problems?

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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#313 Post by j99 » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:27 pm

Thanks for the info on the German blu ray Martin.

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knives
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#314 Post by knives » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:32 pm

Despair was a theatrical film. By problems I was referring to that PAL to NTSC look that you have with Berlin Alexanderplatz or basically any European show on American disc.

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manicsounds
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#315 Post by manicsounds » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:54 am

Anyone else think Angus T Jones looks like Fass?

Image

Biopic anytime soon?

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domino harvey
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#316 Post by domino harvey » Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:52 am

Thought that was Drake from Drake and Josh

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Lee Roy Tree
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#317 Post by Lee Roy Tree » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:33 am

I am new here, though I have been lurking for a while, and this is my favorite thread so far. I am 28 and I just recently heard of and have gotten into Fassbinder's amazing oeuvre, though I have been into "renegade" cinema since I was about 13. I started with Chinese Roulette, became instantly smitten, and then I went out and bought the BRD trilogy, the double disk set of Martha and 13 Moons, and Berlin Alexanderplatz. I may be weird, but I have yet to watch those. Instead, I have been renting his other works and I have been saving these for nearly last because of their reputation as a big portion of his best work. So far, I have seen the previously mentioned Chinese Roulette, Fear eats the Soul, Fear of Fear, Fox and Friends, and Mother Kusters Goes to Heaven. I have intellectually and emotionally engaged with, and enjoyed, them all. Next, I have Petra Von Kant on the way from netflix for tomorrow.
For me there are many reasons why I love his work, but the most important one is his fearlessness to challenge not only us his audience, but himself as well. I find that very intellectually attractive, and it is a personal trait that I strive for myself. Though there are flaws that, based on his reputation, he sees in himself and no matter how much he knows he should change them, yet for some reason can't, is something I can also personally identify with. I also am interested in how he points out master/slave relationships between people, and how we are all taken advantage of and take the advantage over other people and are often helpless as to choosing which one to be. I may sound like I'm talking gibberish, but I swear this all makes sense in my head.
Anyways, I love this site and this discussion, and I can't wait for February to come so I can get the Criterion of World on a Wire. I am very excited to see his take on science fiction, and how it relates to his other stuff. Oh, and I am also glad I got the BRD trilogy, for around 40 dollars used but like brand new, right before it was made out of print. The prices on that set have skyrocketed!

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zedz
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#318 Post by zedz » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:03 pm

Welcome aboard and enjoy your further Fassbinder explorations. There's a lot of stylistic diversity among his films, but if you're interested in his analysis of how people exploit one another you should find something of interest in all of them!

nolanoe
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#319 Post by nolanoe » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:51 am

Hi there Lee.

"I also am interested in how he points out master/slave relationships between people, and how we are all taken advantage of and take the advantage over other people and are often helpless as to choosing which one to be."

This is one of my gripes with this guys oeuvre, but it's based on my knowledge of his person - to an extent, Fassbinder was always keen on being the master, yet tried to make people see him as the "slave", the one used. Thus, Fox and Petra von Kant are two of his films I didn't enjoy all that much, as it seemed, to me, to be films not really about a personal human struggle, but rather navel-gazing exercises of the sado-masochism Fassbinder applied in real life.

I, however, love Fear eats the Soul and quite liked Chinese Roulette (although I am still not too keen on the ending). Look out for World on a Wire (his best by far, as much as I love Fear eats the Soul), 13 Moons, Despair, Lola and the Third Generation, as well as (to an extent) Veronika Voss and Gods of the Plague. Definitely stay clear from Maria Braun (I know, people might tell you it's his best, but really, it's a waste of time) and Katzelmacher.

And then there is Querelle which I am still not sure if it is so art it's bad or so bad it's art... Looking forward to the soon-to-be-Blu Ray of this to re-evaluate.

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pzadvance
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#320 Post by pzadvance » Thu May 17, 2012 2:25 pm

Hey everybody. Ignorant film fan here.

There's a big Fassbinder retrospective looming here in Los Angeles for the month of June, and I'm wondering if/why I should go. Figured this would be the place to find out.

I'm a big fan of Herzog and early Wenders, and at a recent screening of Bela Tarr's Almanac of Fall it was noted that Tarr was a great admirer of Fassbinder's work and Almanac was allegedly proof of that.

But I'm largely unfamiliar with Fassbinder's films. I saw Marriage of Maria Braun whilst studying in Prague a couple years back and it did very little for me, and my enthusiasm for his other work has, I suppose, waned since then.

I guess I'm just here to ask, in a very basic sense, what is it that you love about Fassbinder and his films? What's a good starting point? What are the can't-miss hits? Who might you compare him to? I'm debating going balls-deep into his ouvre thanks to this retrospective and I wanted to know what I'd be in for.

Many thanks for any words you can send my way.

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Matt
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#321 Post by Matt » Thu May 17, 2012 2:42 pm

I think a great place to start is by reading all of the previous posts in this thread. You'll find lots of recommendations for films to start with and appreciations of Fassbinder's work. If you didn't connect with Maria Braun (and, truth be told, it's not one of my favorites either), you might want to take a look at some of his less "realistic" work like Veronika Voss, Effi Briest, or Chinese Roulette - three very different films, but each great in its own way.

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hearthesilence
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#322 Post by hearthesilence » Thu May 17, 2012 5:34 pm

pzadvance wrote:Hey everybody. Ignorant film fan here.

There's a big Fassbinder retrospective looming here in Los Angeles for the month of June, and I'm wondering if/why I should go. Figured this would be the place to find out.

I'm a big fan of Herzog and early Wenders, and at a recent screening of Bela Tarr's Almanac of Fall it was noted that Tarr was a great admirer of Fassbinder's work and Almanac was allegedly proof of that.

But I'm largely unfamiliar with Fassbinder's films. I saw Marriage of Maria Braun whilst studying in Prague a couple years back and it did very little for me, and my enthusiasm for his other work has, I suppose, waned since then.

I guess I'm just here to ask, in a very basic sense, what is it that you love about Fassbinder and his films? What's a good starting point? What are the can't-miss hits? Who might you compare him to? I'm debating going balls-deep into his ouvre thanks to this retrospective and I wanted to know what I'd be in for.

Many thanks for any words you can send my way.
Yeah, Maria Braun isn't one of my favorites either - it's strange, because it's probably his most popular film. It was a huge success in Germany by any standard, and I think it was his first commercial success on a international scale, I think his biggest by a wide margin. But I never thought it was a great film, much less Fassbinder's best work. I don't think I'm in the minority either - I know J. Hoberman called it the "least" of the BRD films, and Jonathan Rosenbaum wasn't impressed by it when he first saw it.

Hanna Schygulla is terrific - much of the film's commercial appeal probably comes from her - and what Fassbinder is trying to do with this film is important from a historical perspective (to me, it's the thesis statement of the BRD films, which was supposed to be an ongoing series), but it doesn't rise to the same heights as his best films.

IMHO, Veronika Voss is the one great film of the BRD films - it's worth noting that it's a strong departure from the other two films as well and the last one to be produced before Fassbinder's death.

I think Fassbinder's two best films are Ali: Fear Eats the Soul and Berlin Alexanderplatz - to me, they're his two masterpieces.

Quite possibly a great film, World on a Wire was recently re-discovered, having been restored then shown in America for the first time ever - it's a little bloated at 200+ minutes, but it's aged remarkably. It was originally made for TV in the early '70s, and it's amazing how many sci-fi films seem to recall it: Blade Runner, The Matrix, Avatar, you name it. I liked it quite a bit, but I've only seen it once and have been meaning to revisit it.

I've heard excellent things about The Bitter Tears of Petra von Kant, Fox and His Friends and Martha as well, I think a number of people consider them favorites, but I haven't seen them.

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feihong
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#323 Post by feihong » Fri May 18, 2012 1:05 am

I really like Maria Braun. I didn't at the time I first saw it, however. But it took some time, learning more about Fassbinder, more about Douglas Sirk, about the Hollywood "womens picture," about postwar Germany before I really appreciated the film. I think it's a little like one of Bunuel's more subtle films, where the social critique is woven somewhat obliquely into story terms.

I'm not sure there is a real "can't-miss hit" in Fassbinder's oeuvre. His films are more like an idea that gradually seeps into your consciousness as it's material washes over you. Ali: Fear Eats the Soul is one of the most thematically complete movies. Petra Von Kant is very interesting. I really liked World on a Wire when I saw it recently, and the BRD films in general are pretty great.

One of the things that helped me get "access" to Fassbinder more than anything else is the exceptional audio commentary on the third BRD film, Lola. Christian Braad Thomsen delivers every piece of information you'd ever need to get hip to Fassbinder in the 2 hrs. or so that Lola runs. He covers a huge swath of material, from themes and how they're worked out, to the stylistic evolution of Fassbinder, to Fassbinder's work and its relationship to his personal life, to an extensive rundown of "career highlight" films, which covers at least 17 films. This commentary is a great way to get into Fassbinder and get some access to his work very quickly.

One I like which I haven't seen much love for anywhere is The Third Generation. The constant drone of electronic media which runs through that film is a fantastic conceit, especially when Gunther Kaufmann at one point asks if anyone's watching the television, or can he turn it off? Eddie Constantine is priceless as the bemused capitalist exploiter in the film, thrilled to be kidnapped (after all, it will help him sell computers), and happy to help provide take after take of his filmed ransom note. One thing that helped put this viewing experience into perspective was the fact that I'd just seen The Baader-Meinhof Complex, the recent German "action film" about the Red Army Faction. The Third Generation was Fassbinder's film about the RAF, several members of which he knew personally (Thomsen covers this also in his commentary). Watching the two pictures seemed to me to explain in many ways the difference between a populist-arthouse-and-entertainment flick and a movie by a sensitive, creative film auteur.

And I have slowly been enjoying Berlin Alexanderplatz to a huge degree. Every episode is wonderful, although the first one took a couple of viewings to really get into and out of, remaining wide awake. I'm not done, probably partly because I don't want it to be done, but I think it's pretty great.

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Lemmy Caution
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#324 Post by Lemmy Caution » Fri May 18, 2012 3:13 am

My favorite Fassbinder is Veronica Voss, and it seemed like there's general consensus here that it's one of RWF's best films. A real hypnotic quality to it which fits in with some of its themes. And it'd probably look great on a big screen.

I think In A Year with 13 Moons is a hugely powerful film with an amazing central performance. That's the Fassbinder I've watched the most, even if it's not such an easy viewing.
I'd love to see that on a big screen -- especially for the first time!

Maybe others could comment on which Fassbinder's would benefit most from a theatrical viewing.
I'm thinking World on a Wire and Despair, but maybe that's just because I've seen them fairly recently. There was a lot to like in Wire, but it became attenuated in the second part of its nearly 3.5 hour runtime.

Lots of suggestions and detailed discussion of RWF films in this thread.
Do you have a link for the Fassbinder retrospective?
I'm wondering if any hard-to-see Fassbinders are on the program.
Are there still any Fassbinder films not available in an English friendly format?
Last edited by Lemmy Caution on Fri May 18, 2012 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The Fanciful Norwegian
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Re: Rainer Werner Fassbinder

#325 Post by The Fanciful Norwegian » Fri May 18, 2012 4:23 am

There's still some TV work that's not out in (legitimate) English-friendly editions -- Eight Hours Are Not a Day, Bremen Freedom, Jail Bait, Nora Helmer, and Like a Bird on a Wire -- plus the documentary Theater in Trance. There is at least an unsubbed German DVD of Theater in Trance, and subtitled bootlegs of Bremen Freedom, Jail Bait, Nora Helmer, and Like a Bird on a Wire are in circulation. None of these are being shown at the Los Angeles retrospective, the schedule for which is here.

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