The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

Discuss releases by the BFI and the films on them.

Moderator: MichaelB

Message
Author
Orlac
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:29 am

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#51 Post by Orlac » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:54 am

These days, the cuts rarely matter, because you can just go and get the US releases.

User avatar
ellipsis7
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#52 Post by ellipsis7 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:02 pm

Orlac wrote:These days, the cuts rarely matter, because you can just go and get the US releases.
And that, in part, is due to Roberto Rossellini...
In 1952, in the case of Joseph Burstyn, Inc. v. Wilson, the U.S. Supreme Court unanimously overruled its 1915 decision and held that motion pictures were entitled to First Amendment protection, so that the New York State Board of Regents could not ban "The Miracle", a short film that was one half of L'Amore (1948), an anthology film directed by Roberto Rossellini. Film distributor Joseph Burstyn released the film in the U.S. in 1950, and the case became known as the "Miracle Decision" due to its connection to Rossellini's film.

Orlac
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:29 am

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#53 Post by Orlac » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:20 pm

Criss-Cross!

User avatar
RossyG
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:50 pm

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#54 Post by RossyG » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:12 am

I'm amazed Masters of Cinema's one and only World Cinema Foundation released wasn't cut. That included a dog being shot (and I'm not sure if it was a clean kill) and a rat being dipped in petrol and set alight.

How did they get away with that?

User avatar
Thornycroft
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:23 pm

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#55 Post by Thornycroft » Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:24 pm

I can't speak to the MoC release (which I'm equally baffled by) but it's not uncommon for labels to source false statements from film-makers and license holders in order to placate the BBFC. The most recent Arrow release of Deep Red got by uncut with an assurance that the 'pinned lizard' sequence was mechanically faked, which is clearly nonsense.

User avatar
TMDaines
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Stretford, Manchester

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#56 Post by TMDaines » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:09 am

Fear must be one of the biggest leaps in video quality ever from that dodgy rip to the Blu-ray. Wow!

User avatar
Drucker
Your Future our Drucker
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 9:37 am

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#57 Post by Drucker » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:52 pm

Beaver.

Contrast is noticeably different than Criterion. Compare these two caps from Journey To Italy.

Criterion
BFI

User avatar
TMDaines
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Stretford, Manchester

The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#58 Post by TMDaines » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:16 am

From

Image

to

Image
Last edited by TMDaines on Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
tenia
Ask Me About My Bassoon
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#59 Post by tenia » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:18 am

Contrast seems all over the place.
For Stromboli, the Criterion is much more contrasted than the BFI.
For Journey to Italy, it's the over way around (with the BFI being VERY contrasted, cf cap 5).
And finally, La paura seems not contrasted enough, with plenty washed out grey areas.

User avatar
Finch
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#60 Post by Finch » Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:19 pm

It's a mystery to me that Tooze thinks the BFI transfers are superior. The blacks are so deep on the BFI discs that shadow detail is lost compared to the Criterion discs.

User avatar
zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#61 Post by zedz » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:44 pm

Finch wrote:It's a mystery to me that Tooze thinks the BFI transfers are superior. The blacks are so deep on the BFI discs that shadow detail is lost compared to the Criterion discs.
But if you check out Ingrid's leopard-skin coat in the car (and her hair in the same shot), you'll see there's much greater resolution in the BFI.

User avatar
EddieLarkin
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:25 am

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#62 Post by EddieLarkin » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:20 pm

It's a mystery to me how and why these have turned out so different, despite being from the same restoration, same licensee and presumably same digital files. You could chalk the ultra deep blacks on the BFI up to an authoring error, but then why the comparatively dodgy sharpness on the Criterion, and why are the dimensions different? I can't decide whether the Criterion has been stretched out to 1.37:1, or the BFI has been squashed to 1.33:1!

User avatar
ellipsis7
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#63 Post by ellipsis7 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:47 am

Have this in hand now & running first FEAR on the BR deck... It's an handsome set notwithstanding the frustrating 12 second excision on STROMBOLI TERRA DI DIO...

User avatar
Drucker
Your Future our Drucker
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 9:37 am

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#64 Post by Drucker » Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:38 pm


User avatar
manicsounds
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:58 pm
Location: Tokyo, Japan

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#65 Post by manicsounds » Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:14 pm


User avatar
zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#66 Post by zedz » Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:12 pm

I watched Stromboli the other night. I haven't watched Criterion's version so I can't make any comparison, but this looked very nice, if inconsistent (which is more likely down to the production circumstances, also evident in a couple of hairs in the gate and dodgy focus in a few shots).

Of the three extras, two were already available on Criterion discs (the Tag Gallagher essay on the Bergman / Rossellini set and the NFT interview on their Bergman / Bergman release), and the third is an understandable exclusion.

Bergman & Magnani: The War of the Volcanoes is interesting enough, but extremely dubious in its perspective and construction. It basically covers the tabloid feud between Bergman and Magnani and their rival volcano movies. Fair enough, but it's a tabloid feud, and the documentary not only takes it as gospel, but reports obvious speculation as fact (e.g. narrating that "meanwhile, Magnani was crying in her hotel room", or casually narrating what was running through the protagonists minds at any given time). There's no critical distance to reported events which would certainly have been largely beaten up by the press or engineered by publicists. The supposed feud was a promotional goldmine and everybody involved had huge incentives to distort, exaggerate and outright lie, but the filmmakers have zero skepticism about what was reported at the time.

Even worse, they 'support' their account with the 'evidence' of film clips showing the actresses doing what they claim they were doing in real life (e.g. freaking out in a room, weeping and wailing, pining for an absent lover). It can be a cute effect in small doses, but it's obnoxiously overdone here, where it has to stand in for proper research. It's easy to understand that Criterion might have passed on this if they had the option.

tag gallagher
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:41 am
Contact:

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#67 Post by tag gallagher » Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:02 pm

Just a note. My vid, "Living & Departed," is not the same as on Criterion. Clips from Europe '51 had to be removed, and I strengthened my argument regarding Journey to Italy.

User avatar
zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#68 Post by zedz » Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:33 pm

tag gallagher wrote:Just a note. My vid, "Living & Departed," is not the same as on Criterion. Clips from Europe '51 had to be removed, and I strengthened my argument regarding Journey to Italy.
Oh, that's great to know. I confess I'd skipped it on this disc on the assumption that I'd already seen it.

User avatar
PfR73
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:07 pm

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#69 Post by PfR73 » Thu May 19, 2016 2:09 pm

I didn't see anyone else point this out yet: for some reason on the BFI set, the English cut still uses Italian opening credits and the title "Viaggio In Italia" whereas the Criterion has English opening credits with the title "Journey To Italy."

Calvin
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:12 am

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#70 Post by Calvin » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:19 am

I've just ordered this from Rarewaves for what seems like a bargain (regardless of any imperfections) £7.66. You can get another 10% off if it's a first order

User avatar
Mr Sloane
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:10 am

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#71 Post by Mr Sloane » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:57 pm

Thanks for the tip. I also picked up the BFI Preminger set for a mere £14.34. I actually had no idea Rarewaves had their own site.

User avatar
TMDaines
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Stretford, Manchester

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#72 Post by TMDaines » Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:58 am

Yeah, neither did I

User avatar
DeprongMori
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:59 am
Location: San Francisco

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#73 Post by DeprongMori » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:02 am

Has anyone played their BFI Journey to Italy (English version) lately? I just played it for the first time -- the set was still sealed until then -- and the film begins freezing at about 1:06 and continues to do so for the remainder of the film. (Fortunately I could switch to the Criterion to finish watching.) I'm wondering whether it might be an equivalent of the decay problem found on Criterion discs for a while during this period. Has anyone else encountered this problem?

User avatar
PfR73
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:07 pm

Re: The Roberto Rossellini/Ingrid Bergman Collection

#74 Post by PfR73 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:11 pm

I don't have time to watch the entire film but playing a section around the timestamp you posted, and spot checking other sections, my disc doesn't seem to have any problems.

Post Reply