Better Call Saul

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Walter Kurtz
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:03 pm

Re: Better Call Saul

#251 Post by Walter Kurtz » Wed Aug 03, 2022 7:34 pm

The a-hole sentence was merely a syllogism for the following sentence. Just like a--->A then b--->B. I'm sorry you interpreted it as me calling you an asshole. Nothing of the sort. I apologize if I hurt your feelings. And I'm tapped out too. -- Sarah

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domino harvey
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Re: Better Call Saul

#252 Post by domino harvey » Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:02 pm

Mod here. Your recreation of the “Julio the Bus Driver” skit from Kids in the Hall not withstanding, Walter Kurtz et al: you are wearing thin the patience of all, and coming close to breaking forum rules of name-calling. You can’t Eddie Haskell us, so just chill and knock it off if you want to continue posting on this username versus whichever other sock puppet accounts you’ve previously used. For everyone else: stop sincerely engaging in this poster’s performance art unless you want to be part of it

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Kracker
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:06 pm

Re: Better Call Saul

#253 Post by Kracker » Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:21 am

Thomas Schnauz says in an interview that "We will learn the details of the phone call" but keeps whether Kim is actually even alive ambiguous, going on to say "Something very upsetting happened on the other end of that line that brought back up a lot of old feelings and a lot of pain" "Something about that phone call brought up a lot of pain that he needed to cover up again, and he needed to get back into that world of taking advantage of other people." The pain referred to being the pain caused by Kim not telling Saul about Lalo and the reasons why, also confirming it was the events of " Fun and Games" that created Saul Goodman as Jimmy McGill's drug of choice to numb that pain.

If they made anyone other than Kim on the other end of that line, I would be beyond impressed

https://ew.com/tv/better-call-saul-prod ... -kim-fate/

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Better Call Saul

#254 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:29 am

Human behavior 101, glad to receive some validation of that


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Computer Raheem
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:45 pm

Re: Better Call Saul

#256 Post by Computer Raheem » Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:27 pm

While all of us with cable begin to dread over what horrors Vince Gilligan (writing solo for BCS for the first time in addition to directing!) has in store for us tonight, here's an interesting article from the Wall Street Journal: How ‘Better Call Saul’ Refined the Art of Television

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Boosmahn
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Re: Better Call Saul

#257 Post by Boosmahn » Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:18 am

That was an amazing episode,
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and also one of the series' most heartbreaking. Obviously, there's the scene of Kim crying on the bus; Rhea Seehorn described this on Talking Saul as a result of not just the scheme against and murder of Howard, but Kim's entire moral decline. On the show, Seehorn used the phrasings "what she's become" and "what she has done to herself." The second wording is devastating.

But there's also that quick moment of Gene being dumbstruck by an old Saul Goodman commercial. In the first flash-forward to the Gene timeline, the combination of the color footage and Gene's expression (which was more depressed than shocked) was distressing. Here, though, it was worse. The sight of his Saul persona was enough, if only for a moment, to render Gene completely powerless. It wasn't him willingly putting a VHS tape in and longing for his life as Saul. It was him being unexpectedly hit with the idea and memory of a life so preferable to his current one he couldn't even speak.

His decision to leave Marion unharmed shows he still has a conscience. I don't want to make an unnecessary comparison to Breaking Bad, but I think it fits here: Walt would have threatened her further or even killed her.

Gene also lets Marion use her Life Alert, which is telling of his realization or desire to be caught (or both).

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Better Call Saul

#258 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:09 am

Boosmahn wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:18 am
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His decision to leave Marion unharmed shows he still has a conscience. I don't want to make an unnecessary comparison to Breaking Bad, but I think it fits here: Walt would have threatened her further or even killed her.

Gene also lets Marion use her Life Alert, which is telling of his realization or desire to be caught (or both).
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Completely agree with the first point here, though this show has been all about 'hurt people hurt people' vs. BB's moral decline/power incline ratio, so it's fitting for Jimmy's psychological portrait. I don't think he desires or plans to get caught there though. Rather, Jimmy becomes sober to what he's repressed for so long, and in that moment of pause (a moment he hasn't been able or willing to afford, in order to stay afloat -whether psychologically or self-preserving his life itself) he loses his grasp on what he desperately needs to control, yet what cannot be ethically controlled: other people and their agency. It's ironic that the very key to liberating him from his purgatory of moral cavity is a non-action that will mark his downfall. I also love how, after spending so long getting to 'The Top', becoming 'The Best' at what he does, he's marked himself so that even a layman can type two keywords into a search engine and destroy his future. Talk about fatalism.

The karmic retribution of the principal being an elderly person makes it all the better, given his track record.. and all the more devastating. When we see him grab the whistle, it's perhaps the most gut-wrenching moment in the entire show, or both shows. Instead of its disgusting effect being sourced wholly in pathos for Walt's family et al as victims, for example, it's for both parties on either end of that exchange for very different reasons. Jimmy has become something that he never wanted to be, but that he cannot excuse either- just like he didn't want to pretend to be too cool to face Kim in the divorce signing. He tapped out of life back then, right when he led himself to believe he was tapping into life with gusto.

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Kracker
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Re: Better Call Saul

#259 Post by Kracker » Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:01 am

"There never was a 'Nippy', was there?"

Turns out Kim's fate was far crueler than we could have imagined...
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as a life of mundane sex and living among the Karens as a form of self-imposed exile and imprisonment. I love how those previous love scenes of Jimmy and Kim along with their warm TV watching are now juxtaposed with her now husband going "Yup... yup... yup..." and watching TV on the barcalounger. The big significance here is that, after it being the embodiment of who she was, Kim no longer makes her own decisions, right down to whether Miracle Whip is a good enough stand in for mayonnaise. Rhea plays Kim with hardly any personality in this episode, almost Stepford-like, to reflect this.

Also turns out they indeed had arranged it so the phone call would subvert our expectations, though people had nailed that it was Kim telling Gene to turn himself in. But the rage wasn't what we thought, Gene was already in full Hyde mode when he called Kim, immediately gloating to Kim about having eluded the authorities and still playing the game. And so the pain being covered up was actually really Kim's. Seeing as how what the phone call accomplished was goading Kim to turning herself in despite the consequences, can't help but think that will play into the events of the finale. (nice touch after the phone call, a co-worker tells her "Time to sing!")

On the Gene side, the audience is left as to how far Gene will go. Gene is about to dispatch the cancer victim when he passes out on his own, leaving us to wonder if he would have really gone through with it. This puts us into suspense when it looks like Gene is about to strangle poor Marion with that telephone cord and its the moment where Gene finally stops his mad tear. Of course, we know Gene wouldn't kill Marion but then the scene wouldn't be so Hitchcockian, they have to somehow put us on the edge of our seat over if this would be yet another line he would cross, maybe the final one as Marion ultimately represents the Jimmy he used to be.

The Walt comparison, though, is unfair. Walt poisoned Brock because Gus was going to kill his family while Gene still had a way out via Ed the vacuum guy, and now he has the extra money from his exploits to do it, which may have been the plan all along. While Walt was morally far gone enough to shrug off Drew being shot and killed, I don't think he would have pulled the trigger himself just to avoid the risk of being caught. Actually I thought Gene would have told Marion about the burglaries and how Jeff would have gone down with him, which would have been enough to make Marion play ball for the time being. Just couldn't help but think Jeffy could have been his way out of this. Still could be! If Jeffy can convince his mom to tell the police she had a confused episode after watching those Saul Goodman videos.

Also we find out that Kim was already divorced from Saul and living in Florida the entire time during Breaking Bad as its Emilio who walks into Sauls office on her way out. The scene where Kim meets Jesse feels a bit like fan service though. It does seem to reveal that Kim is who convinces Jesse to go to Saul when he needs a 'criminal lawyer' just to add an extra layer on top of last week's episode, but its the tiniest of pushes. Maybe they felt her being the one who tells Jesse "if you need a "criminal" lawyer" would have been too much. It also had the symbolism of two partnerships, one leaving completely and one upcoming passing by each other.

- If you type in "Albuquerque con man" into Google now, you get a bunch of Saul Goodman ads with that title, obviously planted there so they'd be the first result just like on Marion's laptop.

- A nod to Breaking Bad, cancer guy has the 737 amount Walt figured he needed to make to take care of his family in his bank account.

- My favorite shot, Gene seeing the Saul commercial on Marion's laptop, the color reflected in his glasses. As pointed, a great comparison of the same shot from the very first episode.

- Such a great misdirect with the cops, both in this episode and in last week's teaser. We're sweating it just like Jeffy that the cops are onto him when really they were fixated on their fish tacos.

- "Have a good life Kim", such a cold line that is completely on brand and insignificant coming from the Saul we know from Breaking Bad. After everything we've seen it reveals that Saul is indeed a shell to shield Jimmy from his pain.

- "We're bad for each other. Apart we're ok" Turns out Kim without Jimmy is moral but lifeless. Jimmy without Kim is corrupt but lush.
The finale will be the longest episode of Better Call Saul, almost 80 mins
Last edited by Kracker on Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Roger Ryan
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Re: Better Call Saul

#260 Post by Roger Ryan » Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:30 am

Kracker wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:01 am
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... I love how those previous love scenes of Jimmy and Kim along with their warm TV watching are now juxtaposed with her now husband going "Yup... yup... yup..." and watching TV on the barcalounger...
A minor correction, but I think it's important in understanding Kim...
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... is that she does not appear to be married to the dim bulb she's in a relationship with. After sex and some TV, he's returning to his own home with the promise of seeing her again the next weekend for a dinner date at the new Outback restaurant.

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Roscoe
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Re: Better Call Saul

#261 Post by Roscoe » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:34 am

Kracker wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:01 am
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The scene where Kim meets Jesse feels a bit like fan service though. It does seem to reveal that Kim is who convinces Jesse to go to Saul when he needs a 'criminal lawyer' just to add an extra layer on top of last week's episode, but its the tiniest of pushes. Maybe they felt her being the one who tells Jesse "if you need a "criminal" lawyer" would have been too much.
Sorry, not seeing that at all.
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She doesn't convince Jesse, because Jesse's already there, waiting with his friend who's about to become a client. She doesn't engage with Jesse at all, recognizing him as being exactly the kind of person who'd resort to Saul as a lawyer. As in her Florida scenes, she's in full non-committal mode here, replying to Jesse's direct question "Is he good?" with "When I knew him he was."

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Re: Better Call Saul

#262 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:33 am

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Kracker wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:01 am
If you type in "Albuquerque con man" into Google now, you get a bunch of Saul Goodman ads with that title, obviously planted there so they'd be the first result just like on Marion's laptop.
What a coup for all the actual grifters of New Mexico

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Kracker
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Re: Better Call Saul

#263 Post by Kracker » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:37 am

Roscoe wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:34 am

Sorry, not seeing that at all.
Like i said, its the tiniest of pushes just to make the scene something other than fan service.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Better Call Saul

#264 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:14 am

I've really enjoyed reading your recorded thoughts here, Kracker. Regarding the scene in question of K and J
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At first I was concerned it would be a scene of empty fan service, and I even went to bed thinking it was, but today it's affecting me differently, though not in any way that draws specific forced meaning, which Gilligan can sometimes do and that thankfully this moment resists (outside of the rain metaphor). The scene plainly captures a connection point between two people we've seen fleshed out unlike many characters on TV, but who are on opposite ends of the spectrum on being withered by life and giving the other only the surface of their personality. One of them has been beaten down by a season of life in a milieu that reinforced breaking bad, and the other will be fated for a similar breaking. There's nothing Kim can do, or has the energy to do, in that moment other than mourn her own life and Jimmy's life pre-transformation, powerlessly and alone.

An attorney who was once able to repeatedly break from her own introspection to focus outwards doesn't have the energy to do that anymore, and there's nothing she can, should, or wants to say to Jesse to inspire him or herself in any direction other than the now. It's a scene of one chapter ending and another beginning, one person broken and another breaking in, but also a moment where Kim allows herself to feel her own feelings and not neglect them in favor of 'the people'. Whether that's a good thing or not isn't the point, as this is a grey world Gilligan and Gould have detailed, and it's both tragic numbness and growth depending on how you look at it. The scene is certainly not optimistic, but its devastation is quiet, impotent, and isolating- which as you pointed out re: Kim's fate, is in many ways worse, and certainly more relatable to audiences, than the louder consequences of BB.

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Re: Better Call Saul

#265 Post by RIP Film » Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:18 pm

I thought the scene was a bit on the nose,
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with Kim literally passing the torch to Jessie, and then the double entendre of “When I knew him he was”. I imagine in that moment Kim is finally coming to terms with who Saul is, as the audience knows him, and also her role in forming him and then letting him go. No doubt that has been on her conscience all this time and the phone call was a rude awakening.
But a devastating episode, sharply written. Continually impressed by Odenkirk and Seehorn who have put in their best performances this season, especially Bob who is essentially playing three characters.

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Boosmahn
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Re: Better Call Saul

#266 Post by Boosmahn » Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:16 pm

Kracker wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:01 am
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The Walt comparison, though, is unfair. Walt poisoned Brock because Gus was going to kill his family while Gene still had a way out via Ed the vacuum guy, and now he has the extra money from his exploits to do it, which may have been the plan all along. While Walt was morally far gone enough to shrug off Drew being shot and killed, I don't think he would have pulled the trigger himself just to avoid the risk of being caught.
This is a fair point, and now that you mention it, it's quite probable Walt
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would not have killed Marion if he were in that position. However, he has done worse than poisoning Brock: he orchestrated the murders of all of the inmates because he was too stubborn to leave and/or didn't want to pay them off. (There still is some wiggle room, though, because some of the inmates might have talked even if they were paid -- not to say that justifies their murders.)
---

An unexpected finale.
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Jimmy did what I thought he wouldn't be able to do: acknowledge his trauma and shed the Saul persona for good. He lets inmates and guards call him "Saul" still, but I think he believes it's futile to convince them otherwise and just accepts himself as Jimmy internally.

I'm going to rewatch season six with a friend whom I watched almost the entire BB and BCS saga with a few months ago (they have seen everything but BCS' sixth season). When we reach this episode, I want to focus on what prompted Jimmy's decisions.

I'm looking forward to everyone's thoughts on Jimmy's long-awaited acceptance, not to mention the finale as a whole!
EDIT:
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I have been trying to figure out why Jimmy switched his story when he heard Kim confessed and might be sued by Howard's widow. I was thinking it was partially an attempt to get Kim out of legal trouble, even if the question of how it would do so seemed to have no answer. Now, though, I think the reason is he was inspired by Kim facing the music and decided to be truthful no matter the consequences.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Better Call Saul

#267 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:47 am

I didn’t think it was unexpected at all, it’s where the show has been building to all along. I wouldn’t focus too hard on what on the surface prompts Jimmy’s decisions, this is a show about what’s happening under the iceberg. Brilliant and maturely restrained in this area

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Boosmahn
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Re: Better Call Saul

#268 Post by Boosmahn » Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:21 am

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I was not expecting the ending to be as positive as it turned out. This was at least partially fueled by Rhea Seehorn apparently saying the ending is "provocative and psychologically disturbing." It was neither, at least to me!

RIP Film
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Re: Better Call Saul

#269 Post by RIP Film » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:20 am

Boosmahn wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:21 am
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I was not expecting the ending to be as positive as it turned out. This was at least partially fueled by Rhea Seehorn apparently saying the ending is "provocative and psychologically disturbing." It was neither, at least to me!
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I think we were rooting for Jimmy to get the reduced sentence, and from the standpoint of being forcefully disengaged from the psyche of the protagonist (by them choosing life imprisonment without the reason being fully clear to us)— it is in a way “psychological disturbing” from a non-traditional TV standpoint, but also brilliant. I do think you’re onto something in saying he was inspired by Kim’s confession, it seemed to be a corrective action against what Kim had said about them being bad for eachother.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Better Call Saul

#270 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:58 am

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Of course, and for a show with thematic noir overtones, Jimmy's one-note existential quest transitions from being on top of others (at their expense to compensate for his low self-esteem and as a product of his sensitivity to being the target of demeaning pathology), toward getting as close as he can to the person he loved and loves most in this world. The ending isn't 'selfless', but an example of Jimmy liberating himself from the confines of fear-based isolation. He even fabricates another lie to draw Kim to a place where he can commit one final act, using all his skillful verbal panache to confess what's been slowly eating his soul, and that he never had the strength to confront before because he felt alone and did whatever he could to keep himself in that 'safe' space.

I think what's so powerful about this decision is that -in contrast to Walter White and Gus and Saul Goodman- Jimmy knows that he can't actualize this change on his own. So he invites Kim, not just to show her he's better as a form of apology and compromised demonstration of intimacy, but because he needs her to do it for himself. Jimmy finally acknowledges his limitations to do what he needs to do on an emotional front. He doesn't needs others to swindle or behave immorally- he's fine doing that on his own. That's actually easy work, as is most behavior that operates on denial compensated by distracting behavior, no matter how bad it is. The challenging work is getting vulnerable, and for that he needs support, and he gets that from and with Kim's presence, the only person who ever truly respected him for who he is, warts and all, including himself.

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Re: Better Call Saul

#271 Post by RIP Film » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:15 pm

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Speaking of noir overtones, I forgot to mention that Kim was not spared either. It’s easy to overlook that in light of Jimmy’s confession, but she has that civil suit hanging over her and perhaps that is the meaning behind the punctuated shot of them outside and in the courtyard but both from behind a fence.

There’s a lot to process from this episode but I’m appreciating all of the details: the use of The Time Machine from literally to figuratively; how all of these characters are seemingly giving him perspective on his way to making a choice. The fact that after he sheds his Saul Goodman persona, it continues to stick to him in prison, showing that we don’t have the last say on who we are and that past actions continue to define us. Also, the fact that Jimmy really was a good lawyer, as he proves, but then dunks on his rival Oakley one last time. There was a lot to balance here and I’m surprised they managed a positive ending with their trademark veracity considering the sobering reality of it all.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Better Call Saul

#272 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:33 pm

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There was an interesting perversity to the Saul chant- in that instead of opting for a solely negative consequence in poetic justice for Jimmy being branded with this persona for life, there's also an implicit reading that his alliance with criminals will carry positive value behind prison walls. Yes, this revelation implies deeper layers to the situation's pathos, in that Jimmy's choice to spend his life defending immoral people will yield rewards in being surrounding by, and only respected by, them for eternity. Well, except for Kim, who is the only one who ever respected him for who he 'is'- again reinforcing the tragedy of Jimmy's fate by having those who will engage with him for the rest of life be men who do not know the real him, and will only engage with him around that image, evading an opportunity to ever be acknowledged as "Jimmy" again publicly. Still, the consequences are not wholly negative in surface-level terms- and the concept of actions defining us goes both ways. It's not that Jimmy will spend the rest of his life doomed to a fate of being abused in prison, but that these people recognize him as an alley- so his fate becomes like the majority of his life has been: On the surface, fine (as far as being in prison goes, I imagine), but underneath empty. The real tragedy is that who he 'is' inside will not be cultivated nor nourished following his breakthrough moment of self-expression and catharsis. That's for only Kim to have.

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Kracker
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Re: Better Call Saul

#273 Post by Kracker » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:50 pm

"So you were always like this"
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Damn I wanted that scene to go on forever. Way way better than his scene in El Camino. Good to see they made sure the bald cap worked this time! And I loved how Bryan snapped back into the role so seamlessly to match the season in both his appearances. One of my favorite things about BB was how I gradually stopped seeing him as Walter White. In the "Breaking Bad" episode, I saw him as Walt, desperate cancer man in an RV. In this episode, Heisenberg, notorious drug kingpin in hiding.

And we get the significance of the Time Machine book, which it turned out was Chuck's. It, not the bottle stopper, was the actual callback object Peter Gould was referring to. While Jimmy/Saul kept giving shallow answers for the time machine question, his real answer was in the Chuck scene, which happens before the beginning of BCS: For once, Chuck was interested in Jimmy's legal career but its Jimmy who is rejecting the relationship he wanted with him. As he admitted in the courtroom, he could have tried harder. Chuck tells him "there's no shame in going back and changing your path" and Jimmy wouldn't have taken the path he took had he gotten the love, respect, and support he needed from his brother. So maybe it contextualizes how Jimmy really became Saul.

I think a lot of people were expecting something explosive or devastating or tragic when, if we go by the way the end of BB was structured, that part is all over and now we are the in phase where closure is needed so we can leave the show satisfied. "Saul Gone" is much like the BB finale (which also started with our protagonist evading the police after alerting them): both characters don't escape what's coming to them but pull off a cathartic win in the process while coming clean and providing closure to their significant other and finally going out on their own terms while achieving an unconventional form of freedom. I really should have called that we would have Saul in the courthouse for the finale rather than spending it with Gene running from the police, which wouldn't have worked because fugitive wasn't the game he was good at. Criminal lawyer was where he had his home court advantage, it was his domain where he could control the system.

When it comes to why he switched his story, this series is at its heart, a love story. and even though we saw Saul's shell begin to melt away when he hears Kim's name and then further when he's told what consequences she opened herself to, it ultimately happened when he saw Kim's face for the first time in 6 years. The line in the Chicanery courtroom scene comes to mind: " I did it for her!" He pulled off that deal with feds and showed everyone he still had the Saul power, only to throw it away just for the most subtle of approving looks from Kim. He kept looking back with begging eyes until he got it, and he wouldn't until he truly came clean like Kim did, to join her in personal absolution, otherwise she would always be looking down on him and he'd probably never see her again; this was his only chance. Admitting to Kim what he did to Chuck really did it because it was the thing nobody would've ever known about; it showed he was putting everything on the table like she did. He didn't get the respect from his brother and this was the only way to get it from Kim, to change his path: Go to jail as Jimmy for 86 years and get Kim back, or go to jail as Saul for 7 just to end up alone anyway when he got out.

As mentioned, Kim still has the looming civil suit to look forward to which people speculate as to whether Jimmy's confession somehow saved her from. If he did, it would have totally undercut her own confession since the point of which was for both of them to properly atone for their actions. No way of knowing what that will involve for Kim, whether those consequences will be heavy or light, as, like with BB, our story ends with our main protagonist. And yea, that is very likely the meaning behind that ending shot of both of them behind fences.

- Loved, loved, loved the misleading shot of Jimmy baking bread in prison, showing that Gene's life at the Cinnabon in Omaha was really way more punishing than winding up in Montrose: he gained true peace with himself, shed his Saul persona for good, has the respect of all of his inmate peers, and greatest of all, gets to see Kim again, not to mention has her respect. Never thought I would envy Jimmy's prison life this much.

- Gene seemingly hitting rock bottom and going mad in the holding cell when really he figured out how to brilliantly Saul Goodman his way out of things once again is one of Bob Odenkirk's greatest acting moments. The graffiti makes Gene think of Bill and laugh because of the gay joke he made about him earlier.

- We get a reversal of the phone booth scene but with Kim receiving the bad phone call and us watching her distress from outside the window, as if Gene decided to turn the tables on her for telling him to turn himself in and hanging up on him.

- With the time machine question, Mike thinks about his son but then changes his answer to never taking that first bribe. Walt thinks about Jesse (looking at the watch he gave him) then changes his answer to never leaving Grey Matter.

- Saul was right. If he made Heisenberg a mountain of cash, he could have damn well ran circles around Elliot and Gretchen to get Walt what he had earned. Too bad he was "the last lawyer he would go to".

- Can't remember what other shows/movies turned the prison ending around by revealing that the protagonist would be revered among the inmates. My favorite of such endings though would be "The Man Who Killed Batman" which is in my top 5 animated Batman episodes. In Granite State, Saul even tries to tempt Walt with the fact that he would treated like a legend in prison.

- Walt turning a very minor annoyance into an insolent racket is so on-brand

- Turns out the Saul cutout going into the dumpster in the 'Wine and Roses' opener was foreshadowing Gene getting caught in one.

- Fantastic closing meeting with Kim that bookends their first scene in the series premiere sharing a cigarette.

A very somber, bittersweet, yet immensely satisfying ending to the BB universe. One of the top 3 episodes along with "Plan and Execution" and "Breaking Bad" if not the best one of the season. Looking forward to future projects: Vince is pitching his next series, and both Bob and Giancarlo each have a new series premiering on AMC next year. Great that we had these two series to show people how its done so we may wind up more in the future that can also capture our intrigue.

Boosmahn wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:16 pm

This is a fair point, and now that you mention it, it's quite probable Walt
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would not have killed Marion if he were in that position. However, he has done worse than poisoning Brock: he orchestrated the murders of all of the inmates because he was too stubborn to leave and/or didn't want to pay them off. (There still is some wiggle room, though, because some of the inmates might have talked even if they were paid -- not to say that justifies their murders.)
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Just to add on to what you were saying, Yeah I actually got into it pretty heated with a friend who insisted that Walt would have killed Marion, only basing it on the fact that Walt is the one who actually does kill people. But I brought up an instance where Walt was actually in the same situation: With the neighbor Carol, who Walt didn't kill even though she would also alert the police. And Carol wasn't even the friend that Marion had become. And the Carol run-in happened after already dropping off the money for Walt Jr. which was his only real goal, at that point he was done running and only going after Lydia and Jesse over the blue meth. His family was safe now so there was no reason to kill someone like that. Now the killing of the inmates was only a thing after the feds had seized the hush money, leaving only the options of having his whole family in danger or using his immense wealth to pull off the hit. Being able to effectively pay them off had been eliminated.

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Boosmahn
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Re: Better Call Saul

#274 Post by Boosmahn » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:14 pm

Lots of spoiler bars incoming...
RIP Film wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:20 am
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I think we were rooting for Jimmy to get the reduced sentence, and from the standpoint of being forcefully disengaged from the psyche of the protagonist (by them choosing life imprisonment without the reason being fully clear to us)— it is in a way “psychological disturbing” from a non-traditional TV standpoint, but also brilliant.
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Very good point. The details of the ending can prompt pretty oscillating interpretations, and that could very well be what Seehorn saw as "disturbing."
therewillbeblus wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:58 am
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The challenging work is getting vulnerable, and for that he needs support, and he gets that from and with Kim's presence, the only person who ever truly respected him for who he is, warts and all, including himself.
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Excellent way of putting it. And it says something that the place Jimmy is able to confess is a courtroom. Most of Saul's slick talk was done outside of courtrooms (did we ever actually see him arguing in court during BB?), but it's like Jimmy took the lawyer coping mechanism of Saul Goodman and changed it into something honest and healthy with Kim's support.

There's a part of me that wonders if Jimmy said what he did just to reconnect with Kim, but that would mean his suggested development is moot. While I'm sure Kim was a factor in his decision, he surely realized himself the right thing to do is come clean. To pull a post from the BCS Reddit: "[Jimmy] didn't want to get out of prison in 7 years just to be alone again. He would rather be in prison forever and be able to look Kim in the eye and know he had done the right thing."
Kracker wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:50 pm
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Now the killing of the inmates was only a thing after the feds had seized the hush money, leaving only the options of having his whole family in danger or using his immense wealth to pull off the hit. Being able to effectively pay them off had been eliminated.
I was thinking that Walt
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could have paid them off again, but your reminder of the money being claimed puts it into perspective that he probably wouldn't have enough to pay off the nine-or-so people in jail.

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Kracker
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:06 pm

Re: Better Call Saul

#275 Post by Kracker » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:33 pm

Boosmahn wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:14 pm


I was thinking that Walt could have paid them off again, but your reminder of the money being claimed puts it into perspective that he probably wouldn't have enough to pay off the nine-or-so people in jail.
Yeah the problem was that there was no way to get them the money since the means of doing so were seized, certainly no way before they talked as their DEA deals were first come first served. It was a huge ticking clock situation. Before the bank lawyer got busted Walt had no problem with Mike's guys since they were being paid out of Mike's share of the buyout. I think Walt had fathomed dispatching them before but only because they were taking a bite out of his work just for, as he saw it, not doing anything.

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