1126 Double Indemnity

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domino harvey
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1126 Double Indemnity

#1 Post by domino harvey » Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:44 pm

Double Indemnity

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Has dialogue ever been more perfectly hard-boiled? Has a femme fatale ever been as deliciously evil as Barbara Stanwyck? And has 1940s Los Angeles ever looked so seductively sordid? Working with cowriter Raymond Chandler, director Billy Wilder launched himself onto the Hollywood A-list with this paragon of film-noir fatalism from James M. Cain’s pulp novel. When slick salesman Walter Neff (Fred MacMurray) walks into the swank home of dissatisfied housewife Phyllis Dietrichson (Stanwyck), he intends to sell her insurance, but he winds up becoming entangled with her in a far more sinister way. Featuring scene-stealing supporting work from Edward G. Robinson and the chiaroscuro of cinematographer John F. Seitz, Double Indemnity is one of the most wickedly perverse stories ever told and the cynical standard by which all noir must be measured.

SPECIAL FEATURES
  • New 4K digital restoration, with uncompressed monaural soundtrack
  • In the 4K UHD edition: One 4K UHD disc of the film presented in Dolby Vision HDR and two Blu-rays with the film and special features
  • Audio commentary featuring film critic Richard Schickel
  • New interview with film scholar Noah Isenberg, editor of Billy Wilder on Assignment
  • New conversation between film historians Eddie Muller and Imogen Sara Smith
  • Billy, How Did You Do It?, a 1992 film by Volker Schlöndorff and Gisela Grischow featuring interviews with director Billy Wilder
  • Shadows of Suspense, a 2006 documentary on the making of Double Indemnity
  • Audio excerpts from 1971 and 1972 interviews with cinematographer John F. Seitz
  • Radio adaptations from 1945 and 1950
  • Trailer
  • English subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing

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ryannichols7
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Re: 1126 Double Indemnity

#2 Post by ryannichols7 » Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:50 pm

it seems extremely silly to complain about, but I feel like we could do better than a Schickel commentary. luckily Imogen and Eddie Muller are on there, they would've been some of my first choices for a commentary

dream release though, as good as it gets for their first UHD from Universal
Last edited by ryannichols7 on Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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domino harvey
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Re: 1126 Double Indemnity

#3 Post by domino harvey » Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:52 pm

Porting over the Schickel commentary and not the far more lively and worthwhile Lem Dobbs and Nick Redman one is a sick joke

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DarkImbecile
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Re: 1126 Double Indemnity

#4 Post by DarkImbecile » Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:06 pm

No essay listed; hopefully the booklet gets filled out at some point

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yoloswegmaster
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Re: 1126 Double Indemnity

#5 Post by yoloswegmaster » Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:08 pm

I was confused as to why they were splitting the content onto 2 discs for the blu until I realized that the Billy Wilder doc is 3 hours long! Besides the missing commentary, they also didn't include the 1973 TV movie or the Robert Osborne intro found on the Universal blu. Regardless, this is still a wonderful looking release, and I can't wait to revisit this in 4K!

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ChunkyLover
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Re: 1126 Double Indemnity

#6 Post by ChunkyLover » Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:12 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:52 pm
Porting over the Schickel commentary and not the far more lively and worthwhile Lem Dobbs and Nick Redman one is a sick joke
I find it ironic especially considering that they didn't bother porting over his "Leave Her to Heaven" commentary.

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yoloswegmaster
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Re: 1126 Double Indemnity

#7 Post by yoloswegmaster » Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:24 pm

It's not listed on the site for whatever reason but Criterion did say on Twitter that there would be an essay by Angelica Jade Bastien.

DimitriL
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Re: 1126 Double Indemnity

#8 Post by DimitriL » Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:48 pm

Oh, that’s great - she’s a terrific writer.

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Computer Raheem
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Re: 1126 Double Indemnity

#9 Post by Computer Raheem » Sat Mar 26, 2022 6:56 pm

Updated extras:
  • PLUS: An essay by critic Angelica Jade Bastién
Is it too late to ask Criterion to include the Dobbs/Redman commentary?

trobrianders
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:18 pm

Re: 1126 Double Indemnity

#10 Post by trobrianders » Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:10 pm

Has anyone compared the Criterion Blu and UHD to the Masters of Cinema Blu yet? Nothing at blu-ray.com or the beaver yet.

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swo17
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Re: 1126 Double Indemnity

#11 Post by swo17 » Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:14 pm

This doesn't come out for two more months

trobrianders
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Re: 1126 Double Indemnity

#12 Post by trobrianders » Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:35 pm

swo17 wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:14 pm
This doesn't come out for two more months
Getting ahead of myself. Sorry.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: 1126 Double Indemnity

#13 Post by FrauBlucher » Sun Apr 17, 2022 11:45 am


black&huge
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Re: 1126 Double Indemnity

#14 Post by black&huge » Sun Apr 17, 2022 2:35 pm

those are from the blu? holy.... I thought I was looking at the 4k. Well anywho what does everyone think of the inky blacks? textured or blotchy? I was pretty stunned when I saw those caps and I do love them.

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Drucker
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Re: 1126 Double Indemnity

#15 Post by Drucker » Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:46 am

I finally fell in love with this last year when we did the Wilder list, and while I'm double-dipping less and less these days, this seems like a must-buy. Finally will be able to understand what people were talking about as they insisted how dark this film was supposedly shot.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: 1126 Double Indemnity

#16 Post by FrauBlucher » Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:58 am

Plus, the 3 hour show on Wilder from BBC’s Arena is worth it

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Furstemberg
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Re: 1126 Double Indemnity

#17 Post by Furstemberg » Thu May 05, 2022 11:22 am

The new review on the other forum... Tell me what you think.

At least it's not a digipack.

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Finch
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Re: 1126 Double Indemnity

#18 Post by Finch » Thu May 05, 2022 12:09 pm

Ahem...

On the other hand, I'm glad too they've stopped issuing every UHD in a digipack. The scanavo case is so much sturdier than what they're using for digipacks (never been a fan of that packaging).

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FrauBlucher
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Re: 1126 Double Indemnity

#19 Post by FrauBlucher » Tue May 24, 2022 6:55 pm


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FrauBlucher
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Re: 1126 Double Indemnity

#20 Post by FrauBlucher » Fri Jun 03, 2022 6:16 pm


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andyli
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Re: 1126 Double Indemnity

#21 Post by andyli » Sat Jun 04, 2022 6:16 am

There's definitely something wrong with Beaver's UHD screen capture. It's displaying an image that's downsized and cropped to 1150x839, which is even smaller than the blu-ray resolution.

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tenia
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Re: 1126 Double Indemnity

#22 Post by tenia » Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:03 am

andyli wrote:
Sat Jun 04, 2022 6:16 am
There's definitely something wrong with Beaver's UHD screen captures.
Beaver's captures have been wrong for the past 15 years, and Gary still thought he could properly screencapture UHDs...

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Mr Sausage
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Double Indemnity (Billy Wilder, 1944)

#23 Post by Mr Sausage » Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:48 am

DISCUSSION ENDS MONDAY, July 18th

Members have a two week period in which to discuss the film before it's moved to its dedicated thread in The Criterion Collection subforum. Please read the Rules and Procedures.

This thread is not spoiler free. This is a discussion thread; you should expect plot points of the individual films under discussion to be discussed openly. See: spoiler rules.

DISCUSSION QUESTIONS

I encourage members to submit questions, either those designed to elicit discussion and point out interesting things to keep an eye on, or just something you want answered. This will be extremely helpful in getting discussion started. Starting is always the hardest part, all the more so if it's unguided. Questions can be submitted to me via PM.

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Sloper
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Re: Double Indemnity (Billy Wilder, 1944)

#24 Post by Sloper » Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:58 pm

This is one of my favourite classic-Hollywood films: I remember becoming obsessed with Sunset Boulevard when I was 15, being amazingly excited to see this, and then having all my expectations surpassed when I finally did. It’s just such a delight on every level. Probably my favourite film score, at least for now.

Over the years and many repeat viewings, I’ve come to see it as a much more compassionate and moving film than it’s generally given credit for. It has a surprising amount of common ground with Brief Encounter: there are definite parallels between Walter/Laura, Phyllis/Alec, and Keyes/Fred, a similar framing device, and in some ways a similar ending. And this isn’t meant to be a flippant comparison: I think they’re both films about three lonely people who are all looking for some kind of love or fulfilment, and don’t know how or where to get it. The big difference in Double Indemnity is the emphasis on the ‘brokenness’ of these characters, which I guess is why it’s a quintessential film noir.

Walter is stuck in a dead-end job, terrified of being given more responsibility – he loves his boss but doesn’t want to become more like him – and, as it turns out, secretly haunted by the lure of pulling off an audacious insurance heist. He claims to have killed Dietrichson ‘for the money, and for a woman’, but maybe one of the reasons he doesn’t get either of those things is that they weren’t his real motive. He appears deeply apathetic about his work and career, so it’s fascinating that he gets excited about subverting it, and pulling one over on Keyes, and getting to tell him all about it some day.

Phyllis has a point when she says that he’s pulling away from her – when he says he’s ‘thinking about her every minute’, this seems patently untrue. What he thinks about every minute are the minutiae of the crime he’s trying to pull off, and of how he and Phyllis need to cover their tracks afterwards. It’s a wonderfully pathological twist on the ‘detective unravelling the crime’ trope, not just because we have a ‘bad guy’ in the role of the protagonist we’re supposed to root for, but because you can’t help wondering what goes on in the mind of this wise-cracking, murderous, insurance-salesman-gone-rogue, or what happened to him in the past to make him this way.

Walter introduces the word ‘rotten’ at the climax, and this becomes a key term in the final exchanges between him and Phyllis. Her plan is ‘just rotten enough’; they’re both rotten; she’s a little more rotten; are his plans for her any better? And at last Phyllis admits that she is ‘rotten to the core’…but then in the same breath realises that she isn’t: she doesn’t offer any grand, sentimental declaration of love, she just says that she couldn’t fire the second shot, and that she didn’t know that could happen to her, and that she’s not asking him to ‘buy’ anything – she just wants him to hold her.

This isn’t a perfunctory, throwaway moment of ‘deathbed repentance’, or a lame plot twist to keep Walter alive, it’s a genuine revelation that makes us (or should make us) revise our whole understanding of Phyllis. We need to ask the same question we asked about Walter: why is she really doing all this? And what is she really doing? Does she just want money and security so she can live alone in some expensive evil lair one day? Does she get a compulsive sexual thrill from betraying and murdering people?

Much of the film indicates that it’s a ‘yes’ to all of the above, but then she says ‘until a moment ago…’ In the end, deep down, she just wants a human connection, and has never been lucky enough to find one before. We’ve spent the rest of the film ‘seeing through’ her apparent affection for Walter, her complaints about the mistreatment she’s suffered, her longing for a happier life – it’s all just feminine wiles, and Walter is a sap for falling for it. Except that’s not true: there was something real in all that behaviour, like the longing of Charles Foster Kane for that lost thing (or feeling) he could never really put into words, and that no one else could access. This is why it’s so important to have Barbara Stanwyck in this role, someone who specialises in alternating (and combining) cynicism and innocence, vicious spite and tender affection.

It’s thanks to those haunting final moments of her performance that we feel genuine horror at Walter’s ice-cold ‘goodbye baby’ – and it’s hard not to feel that he’s ‘a little more rotten’ after all, if he really is unaffected by her at this moment. But then he says, ‘I wonder if she’s still lying alone up there, or if they’ve found her by now. I wonder a lot of things. They don’t matter anymore.’ Perhaps, among other things, he wonders how she really felt about him, and how he really feels about her, but still can’t bring himself to invest in the idea that these things ‘matter’.

And then there’s Keyes, who is too easily mistaken for the moral centre of the film, the character Walter should be attached to, because their friendship is somehow less toxic and dysfunctional than the central romantic affair. But Keyes, in his own way, is as much of a failed human being as Walter or Phyllis. The tale of his disastrous hair-dyeing fiancée is both very funny and very disturbing because of what it tells us about this man, and about the ‘little man’ inside him. He literally doesn’t know how to interact with anyone except by investigating them or recruiting them to be his co-investigator. He of course turns out to have been investigating Walter, as if this were an automatic reflex, though he fails to discover the truth. He is an astonishingly ‘little man’, leading an astonishingly limited existence.

And yet Walter ‘kind of always knew that Keyes had a heart as big as a house’ underneath the rage, cigar ash, and statistics. How does he know this? How has Keyes ever shown it? Somehow, Walter can tell that this insatiable bloodhound loves him, even if the closest he ever comes to saying it out loud is with the phrase ‘closer than that, Walter’.

Just as the characters in The Asphalt Jungle ‘all work for a vice’ and are all engaged in ‘left-handed forms of human endeavour’, so the three central figures in Double Indemnity are all looking for the same thing as everyone else. Rather than condemning any of them for looking in the ‘wrong’ way, I think the film invites our identification and empathy. I’ve never strangled anyone, had anyone strangled, or been pathologically fixated on chasing down insurance fraud, but this film still captures something very profound about my experience of life, and of how much time I spend pursuing goals without quite knowing why.

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Roscoe
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Re: Double Indemnity (Billy Wilder, 1944)

#25 Post by Roscoe » Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:14 am

Sloper wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:58 pm

Walter is stuck in a dead-end job, terrified of being given more responsibility – he loves his boss but doesn’t want to become more like him – and, as it turns out, secretly haunted by the lure of pulling off an audacious insurance heist. He claims to have killed Dietrichson ‘for the money, and for a woman’, but maybe one of the reasons he doesn’t get either of those things is that they weren’t his real motive. He appears deeply apathetic about his work and career, so it’s fascinating that he gets excited about subverting it, and pulling one over on Keyes, and getting to tell him all about it some day.

Walter introduces the word ‘rotten’ at the climax, and this becomes a key term in the final exchanges between him and Phyllis. Her plan is ‘just rotten enough’; they’re both rotten; she’s a little more rotten; are his plans for her any better? And at last Phyllis admits that she is ‘rotten to the core’…but then in the same breath realises that she isn’t: she doesn’t offer any grand, sentimental declaration of love, she just says that she couldn’t fire the second shot, and that she didn’t know that could happen to her, and that she’s not asking him to ‘buy’ anything – she just wants him to hold her.
I'm not really seeing Walter as "stuck in a dead-end job." He really does seem to prefer his salesman vibe to being seated at a desk -- he's got the freedom to ditch work and grab a beer or do a "few lines" at a bowling alley. He's not exactly chafing at the economic injustice of his life, or at least not overtly. Also, Phyllis introduces the word "rotten" earlier in the film, telling Walter "you're rotten" at their second meeting, when she clumsily tries to use Walter to get an insurance policy on her husband.

Sorry to nitpick. I like the film a good deal. For me the big issue in the film is, well, what the hell does Walter see in that vulgar bleached blonde tramp Phyllis? Does he really expect to live happily ever after with that creature, who hasn't spent ten minutes total in his company before she's trying to use him in a plot to kill her husband and scam an insurance company? There's no accounting for taste, of course, and the streets of Noir City are strewn with guys who should have known better, and all, sure. But there's something missing here, some real sexual vibe between Walter and Phyllis. She's always seemed so transparently vile, somehow, and Walter to be fair is straight up amused at her tricks (as is Bogart's Spade in THE MALTESE FALCON, laughing outright at Astor's Brigid's schoolgirl manners) -- MacMurray's "I wonder if you wonder" sends much the same message as Bogart's "you're not going to go around the room straightening things and poking the fire again, are you?" The notion that Walter is so smitten with Mrs. Diedrichson's charms, as embodied by Stanwyck here, that he switches from amusement to murderer for her has just never worked for me. She always reminds me of Sheridan Whiteside's description of someone's touch as being like a "sex-starved cobra."

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