200 Irréversible

Discuss Blu-rays released by Indicator and the films on them.

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The Elegant Dandy Fop
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Re: Forthcoming: Irréversible

#26 Post by The Elegant Dandy Fop » Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:34 pm

I always have felt like I should hate Gaspar Noe, but I actually enjoy him quite a bit. I can't be alone in the feeling here, can I?

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Big Ben
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Re: Forthcoming: Irréversible

#27 Post by Big Ben » Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:30 pm

I've always been ambivalent about telling people I've seen his work. Sure I might be able to explain to the average person that I watched Enter the Void and it was kind of out there. But how would I explain Irreversible? I'd rather die.

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Re: Forthcoming: Irréversible

#28 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:58 pm

I remember watching Enter the Void upon release in college and finding the first act with the DMT trip to be impressively accurate and mesmerizing subjective filmmaking. I don’t remember much of the rest but I wasn’t in optimal condition, though compared to the other stuff of his I’ve seen it was easily the best (including this).

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Re: Forthcoming: Irréversible

#29 Post by MichaelB » Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:47 am

Finch wrote:Anti-Worlds would have been a better fit for this piece of shit than Indicator...
At the risk of repeating myself, Anti-Worlds is exclusively devoted to brand new or very very recent films that have yet to receive a UK video release. Irreversible wouldn’t qualify on either count.
The Elegant Dandy Fop wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:34 pm
I always have felt like I should hate Gaspar Noe, but I actually enjoy him quite a bit. I can't be alone in the feeling here, can I?
Seul contre tous is one of the greatest feature debuts of the last 25 years, and for sheer visceral impact it was like nothing I'd seen since Shinya Tsukamoto's Tetsuo (which is one of the greatest feature debuts of the last 30 years). And now that I've finally managed to wangle a permanent viewing setup with a decent-sized telly, 5.1 surround and comfortable seating, I think I'll treat myself to Arrow's Climax BD over the next few days.

(My 17-year-old son somewhat startled me the other day by admitting that he'd already seen it - I've stopped vetting what he watches because frankly I'd seen far worse well before I hit his age. I don't think he's seen Irreversible yet, mind.)

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colinr0380
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Re: Forthcoming: Irréversible

#30 Post by colinr0380 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:50 am

And I was pleasantly surprised by Love, which perhaps needs rescuing already as it looks as if the UK Blu-ray release by Artificial Eye is already out of print.

My big problem with Noé is also the main characteristic of his films - that you often 'get the point' of what he is trying to do quite early on and then have to watch the film laboriously take another hour (or two in the case of Enter The Void!) to reach the same conclusion. I think he often fully intends that as the point in his films, but I find that often makes them gruelling to watch in a way that does not necessarily relate to the explicit sex and violence on display. I think he is often reigned in somewhat by his soundtracks (so Climax is relatively concise in comparison to everything else) and actual interesting characters (which makes Irreversible arguably his best film, or at least up there with Love), and when there is not even a Bangalter score to stop him, that's when you get the enormously baggy Enter The Void, which just like its ethereal drone sounds is both an astonishing feat and rather monotonous simultaneously.

And it probably goes without saying, but I will say it anyway, there is that issue that none of his characters should really be 'looked up to' as paragons of virtue. Even when at best Noé creates a blank slate of a character as in Enter The Void, even then there is the icky over possessiveness towards the sister aspect that only expands out to fill the gap of personality! That's why I particularly like Irreversible (the characters are pretty awful but Monica Bellucci is at least somewhat likeable and the two main male figures are at least charismatic dolts) and Love (which keeps the solipsistic self-pitying figure of Enter The Void but actually seems to be exploring his issues and not endorsing them rather than just presenting them without comment, which could be taken as a tacit endorsement)

Speaking of 'tacit endorsement', that is probably the reason for specific dislike of Irreversible in some quarters, as it really does not have a great attitude towards homosexuals with its nightmarish Rectum club scene and the rape by bisexual attacker. However I think rather than conscious prejudice on the part of the filmmakers, I more lean towards the idea that the filmmakers were enamoured by the structural idea of the film going from 'all male' at one end to 'all female' at the other, with transgender prostitutes forming part of the transition, but with the point seeming to be that neither sex can interact with each other in anything more than a violent display when they meet up in the middle. But unfortunately that kind of structure raises certain 'real world' issues that I get the impression never really crossed Noé's mind at the time (which might be the most damning thing to say about Irreversible!), because sights were set on loftier film structural ambitions. (Just as Enter The Void is a magnificent technical feat that is almost unwatchable in one entire sitting!)

And neither of the straight male characters are particularly likable, and end up performing the most hideous acts! On the wrong victim even! So its not as if they are unassailable figures of righteous vengeance. Which has always been the case from Carne and Seul Contre Tous, so it should not be a particular surprise. In fact I wonder if the 'charisma' of Vincent Cassel and Albert Dupontel in their roles, and therefore the audience feeling as if they problematically identified with them more, is what led to the more 'blank slate, callow' main characters in the films which followed?

So whilst I understand those kinds of criticisms, my ambivalence towards Gaspar Noé (though always interest in seeing what he does next) is more structural. But its difficult to say that is something that the director needs to (or at all should) change, since that is such an inherent part of his individual directorial style by this point.
Last edited by colinr0380 on Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Forthcoming: Irréversible

#31 Post by kubelkind » Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:38 am

Noe's OK, I find him a bit crass but I guess he's unique, and I have to say I was not bored for a second during the long cut of "Void", I found it all oddly beautiful. However, I'd really like to say a few words for his partner/collaborator Lucile Hadžihalilović, who I find the better director. We really need a blu upgrade of L'Ecole (hopefully without its terrible and misleading English release title) and any kind of UK home video release for Evolution. I do believe she has a new feature out soon too. She's the real deal I think, and I find it curious to see her name constantly omitted in all the recent articles on female directors that we've been seeing.

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Re: Forthcoming: Irréversible

#32 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:00 am

kubelkind wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:38 am
Noe's OK, I find him a bit crass but I guess he's unique, and I have to say I was not bored for a second during the long cut of "Void", I found it all oddly beautiful. However, I'd really like to say a few words for his partner/collaborator Lucile Hadžihalilović, who I find the better director. We really need a blu upgrade of L'Ecole (hopefully without its terrible and misleading English release title) and any kind of UK home video release for Evolution. I do believe she has a new feature out soon too. She's the real deal I think, and I find it curious to see her name constantly omitted in all the recent articles on female directors that we've been seeing.
From 2018
Re: Women Directors List Discussion + Suggestions
Any love for Lucile Hadžihalilović and Mia Hansen-Love ?

But your right- I got no response

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Re: Forthcoming: Irréversible

#33 Post by colinr0380 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:00 am

Evolution did come out in the UK on DVD only back in 2016, but it was released by Metrodome only two months before it went into administration. The DVD still seems to be available for £6 or so, but it would be good so see it, and Innocence, get a Blu-ray release at some point.

EDIT: Actually on checking Amazon for Evolution, I see that Love is back in print on Blu-ray in a 2D and 3D combo-pack! So it must have just been temporarily out of stock when I last looked.

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tenia
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Re: Forthcoming: Irréversible

#34 Post by tenia » Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:11 am

colinr0380 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:50 am
And I was pleasantly surprised by Love, which perhaps needs rescuing already as it looks as if the UK Blu-ray release by Artificial Eye is already out of print.

My big problem with Noé is also the main characteristic of his films - that you often 'get the point' of what he is trying to do quite early on and then have to watch the film laboriously take another hour (or two in the case of Enter The Void!) to reach the same conclusion.
Pretty much my view too. On top of this, what seemed like new interesting visual tricks in his earlier movies now turned into a boring gimmick. I watched Climax and god, how predictable this turned to be, down to the red lighting (because people are getting crazy = red lighting) and the camera tricks (floating around to make you feel sea-sick and ending up upside down to 10 minutes). I quite liked Enter The Void, but in the end, it's more because of the experiment itself than anything else : the movie could be 25 min long or 5hrs, it wouldn't change much what it has to say (which feels, as often with Noé, quite childish). I think Noé just needs someone else to write for him.

Love felt a tad better than ETV or Climax because the characters and overall story felt more fleshed out, which is the same feeling I had about Irréversible : it doesn't only work visually and/or cinematographically, but from a story point of view.
colinr0380 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:50 am
On the wrong victim even!
I'm actually quite curious to see how viewers will react to this in the newer cut, because it always seemed to me many people failed to realise that in 2002.

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Re: Forthcoming: Irréversible

#35 Post by domino harvey » Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:43 am

NABOB OF NOWHERE wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:00 am
kubelkind wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:38 am
Noe's OK, I find him a bit crass but I guess he's unique, and I have to say I was not bored for a second during the long cut of "Void", I found it all oddly beautiful. However, I'd really like to say a few words for his partner/collaborator Lucile Hadžihalilović, who I find the better director. We really need a blu upgrade of L'Ecole (hopefully without its terrible and misleading English release title) and any kind of UK home video release for Evolution. I do believe she has a new feature out soon too. She's the real deal I think, and I find it curious to see her name constantly omitted in all the recent articles on female directors that we've been seeing.
From 2018
Re: Women Directors List Discussion + Suggestions
Any love for Lucile Hadžihalilović and Mia Hansen-Love ?

But your right- I got no response
I thought Innocence was a terrific best case scenario for a contemporary Meaningful Art Film

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Re: Forthcoming: Irréversible

#36 Post by Rayon Vert » Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:51 pm

I'll echo finding Seul contre tous very forceful (if depressing as hell).
Last edited by Rayon Vert on Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Forthcoming: Irréversible

#37 Post by Finch » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:38 pm

I actually think Seul Contre Tous is pretty good, and if Irreversible is good enough for Indicator, then should Seul Contre Tous IF there is a decent HD master.

Sorry, Michael, my bad, I should have read Anti World's mission statement again. Mea culpa.

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Re: Forthcoming: Irréversible

#38 Post by John Cope » Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:01 am

I Stand Alone is genuinely great. It's all the rest that are flush worthy.

Actually, Placebo's Protège-Moi is my runner-up. I do like that a lot. It's succinct and potent. The short form music video format really does seem well suited for him.

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Re: Forthcoming: Irréversible

#39 Post by knives » Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:55 pm

I’ll be the guy who says that I found I Stand Alone to be unwatchable tripe. Even though I was in the right audience at the time to like it as an immature 20 something who loved Requiem for a Dream I thought what Noe presented was mediocre filmmaking grafted onto a script trying so hard to be edgy and nihilistic that it came across as dumb in a mildly humorous way instead.

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Re: Forthcoming: Irréversible

#40 Post by MichaelB » Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:49 pm

knives wrote:I’ll be the guy who says that I found I Stand Alone to be unwatchable tripe. Even though I was in the right audience at the time to like it as an immature 20 something who loved Requiem for a Dream I thought what Noe presented was mediocre filmmaking grafted onto a script trying so hard to be edgy and nihilistic that it came across as dumb in a mildly humorous way instead.
Conversely, I was deeply unimpressed by Requiem for a Dream. I wonder if viewing order made a difference? (I saw Requiem second.)

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knives
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Re: Forthcoming: Irréversible

#41 Post by knives » Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:55 pm

Perhaps, but I was mostly giving that as a symbol that if I was going to be impressed by I Stand Alone at any time I’m my life it would be then.

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Re: Forthcoming: Irréversible

#42 Post by colinr0380 » Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:14 pm

I would perhaps argue that Carne and Seul Contre Tous are probably better to see in jaded and bitter middle age, since it might be easier to possibly identify with the bitterly ranting racist and sexist main character with notions of wanting to deflower his mentally challenged daughter more in that time of life, as being a kind of more relatable version of a Nigel Farage figure!

It is interesting that Noé's main characters have kind of 'de-aged' over the films, from Phillippe Nahon's figure, who actually hands off leading role duties relay race-style in the opening-ending sequence of Irreversible to the in the process of becoming jaded 30-somethings. Then we get the late 20s self obsessed and solipsistic protagonists of Enter The Void and Love, and eventually all the characters going crazy in the middle of what seems to be the equivalent of a school disco gone terribly awry in Climax. Maybe that all has something to do with that 'regression to childhood/back to the womb' yearning that is present in both Enter The Void and Love. We shall see if the trend continues if all of the characters in his next film are actual children, à la Innocence!
Last edited by colinr0380 on Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Forthcoming: Irréversible

#43 Post by MichaelB » Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:34 pm

colinr0380 wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:14 pm
I would perhaps argue that Carne and Seul Contre Tous are probably better to see in jaded and bitter middle age, since you might possibly identify with the bitterly ranting racist and sexist main character with notions of wanting to deflower his mentally challenged daughter more in that time of life, as being a kind of more relatable version of a Nigel Farage figure!
Not much has been made (at least outside France) of the fact that the film is set at the turn of the Eighties, but I suspect people who remember what it was like back then (and, from what I can gather, upswings in racial tension were broadly paralleled on either side of the English Channel, in both cases whipped up by unrelated but ideologically similar political parties called the National Front) - and the teenage Noé was a very recent immigrant from Argentina at that time, so I suspect he was acutely aware of what was going on.

So yes, I agree with you - I was in my early thirties when I saw it (Noé himself was in his mid-thirties when he made it) and, as with Ai no corrida (a film that only really clicked with me when I was past forty), I think that this helps appreciate the film beyond simple shock value.

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Re: Forthcoming: Irréversible

#44 Post by John Cope » Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:25 am

I think it is crucial that the main character is himself an older man, not just some petulant teen. That automatically adds weight and gravity to it as it is then the portrait of a curdled and deeply embittered sensibility cultivated as such over many years. This has greater implications as well for any society which might reflect him back as its values are then to be understood as deeply entrenched. Also, the film contains moments that still resonate with me as remarkably brutal truths and insights, the likes of which I would like to dismiss but cannot. One example I have never forgotten is when the main character muses upon the idea that all some kids need is for their parents to display one flash of cruelty toward them in order to justify putting them away in a nursing home at the first opportunity. Of course, this musing is made more complex for us as we know this character is far from innocent himself.

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Re: 200 Irréversible

#45 Post by MichaelB » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:29 am

Image
IRRÉVERSIBLE
(Gaspar Noé, 2002)
Release date: 19 April 2021
Limited Edition Blu-ray (UK premiere)


Perhaps the quintessential exemplar of New French Extremism, Irreversible amazed and outraged audiences across the world upon its release in 2002 with its harrowing scenes of rape and violence. Now Gaspar Noé’s nauseating, thrilling, ingenious masterwork returns in a new 4K restoration, both in its original Theatrical Cut and a potent new Straight Cut, assembled in 2020, that re-orders the film’s reverse narrative into a linear chronology.

INDICATOR LIMITED EDITION BLU-RAY SPECIAL FEATURES

• 4K restoration supervised by writer-director Gaspar Noé
• Two versions of the film: the 2002 Theatrical Cut (98 mins); and the 2020 Straight Cut, which re-orders the narrative into a linear chronology (90 mins)
• Original 5.1 surround sound and 2.0 stereo audio tracks
• Audio commentary by Gaspar Noé on the Theatrical Cut (2003)
The Irreversible Odyssey (2019): retrospective documentary featuring interviews with Gaspar Noé, actors Monica Bellucci and Vincent Cassel, and others
SFX (2003): visual effects supervisor Rodolphe Chabrier discusses his team’s work on the film
• Original theatrical trailer
• 2020 Straight Cut trailer
• Image gallery: publicity and promotional material
• New and improved English subtitles
• Limited edition exclusive 80-page book with a new essay by Anna Bogutskaya, archival interviews and articles, an overview of contemporary critical responses, and film credits
• UK premiere on Blu-ray
• Limited edition of 5,000 copies

All extras subject to change

#PHILTD200
BBFC cert: 18
REGION B
EAN: 5060697920659

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Re: 200 Irréversible

#46 Post by EddieLarkin » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:04 am

It was speculated this would end up being either an Anti-Worlds release or in a whole new Powerhouse sub-label. So it's good to see it the mainline, in hopes of seeing more foreign language releases (silents would be nice too!).

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Re: 200 Irréversible

#47 Post by MichaelB » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:10 am

EddieLarkin wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:04 am
It was speculated this would end up being either an Anti-Worlds release
Speculation that was shot down immediately, because Anti-Worlds is specifically about curating brand new or very very recent titles that haven't previously been released in Britain. Although it was quite a good excuse to get that message across again, which is why I'm taking similar advantage right now.

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Re: 200 Irréversible

#48 Post by Finch » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:41 am

The Straight Cut is 8 minutes shorter. Still 90 minutes too long.

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Re: 200 Irréversible

#49 Post by senseabove » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:11 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:10 am
Speculation that was shot down immediately, because Anti-Worlds is specifically about curating brand new or very very recent titles that haven't previously been released in Britain. Although it was quite a good excuse to get that message across again, which is why I'm taking similar advantage right now.
Have any messages to get across about the prospect of future non-English releases? Is it safe to say this is a one-off, or can we let our imaginations run riot?

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Re: Forthcoming: Irréversible

#50 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:15 pm

The Elegant Dandy Fop wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:34 pm
I always have felt like I should hate Gaspar Noe, but I actually enjoy him quite a bit. I can't be alone in the feeling here, can I?
This one isn't my cuppa, but Enter the Void is a masterpiece and Climax is an awesome harbinger of things to come.

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