Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

Discuss releases by Indicator and the films on them.

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EddieLarkin
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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#576 Post by EddieLarkin » Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:24 am

rapta wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:24 pm
Thunderbolt (Josef von Sternberg, 1929) - could also mean An American Tragedy as well...
Why not a new 5 film Sternberg set with the 3 silent films Criterion released? Eureka's rights to The Last Command are probably due to expire this year...

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rapta
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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#577 Post by rapta » Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:37 am

therewillbeblus wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:17 pm
rapta wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:24 pm
California Split (Robert Altman, 1974) - heavily delayed of course, due to rights issues out of Indicator's control, but recently added to the Criterion Channel so hopefully things are looking up...
Not to burst your bubble (and mine; this has gradually become perhaps my favorite American film ever, and I'm antsy as hell) but I'm pretty sure the issues come down to streaming/theatrical vs. physical media rights. At least that's what the article posted here indicated, and why it's been available without a headache in the full cut to stream on Amazon Prime vs. the DVD that was three minutes short or from Criterion/Indicator after years of tease
Ah, that's a shame. I did see that article when it was re-released on Prime Video but I guess that still means the ball is in Sony's court then. A shame as Indicator were obviously preparing this release years ago - their involvement showed up on a BBFC submission a few years ago now, and they've even teased the artwork in one of their promotional flyers. I wonder what the ins and outs of it were? I guess the benefit of waiting this long is that they can assemble a very strong extras package, and who knows, maybe they'll even make it one of their lovely slipbox editions (would genuinely love to own that poster).

I too love the film after seeing it on streaming a few years ago (February 2017 according to my Letterboxd), and was completely unaware of the music rights issues that plagued it. I must've watched the cut version I suppose? I wonder if Indicator and/or Criterion might include both cuts, or maybe not if it would cost them an arm and a leg...
Finch wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:13 am
Scarlet Street was mentioned on the previous page. Given MoC's love of Lang and their release of the companion film The Woman In The Window, I'd be surprised if Indicator got to Scarlet Street first.
Yes I too think it's more likely to come from MoC, I was just posting titles that were mentioned in the blurbs/specs of various Indicator listings. They're not necessarily going to get releases from Indicator but they do often mention titles they have released or will be releasing if they can. Curiously the one that came up most often was Twisted Nerve, so I'll be very surprised if that doesn't culminate from their StudioCanal deal (Corruption was also mentioned several times, but they've confirmed that one in an advert in SIght&Sound).
EddieLarkin wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:24 am
rapta wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:24 pm
Thunderbolt (Josef von Sternberg, 1929) - could also mean An American Tragedy as well...
Why not a new 5 film Sternberg set with the 3 silent films Criterion released? Eureka's rights to The Last Command are probably due to expire this year...
Presumably that would involve mixing titles licensed from both Universal (Thunderbolt, An American Tragedy) and Paramount (Underworld, The Last Command, The Docks of New York) which they might be entirely open to but I doubt Paramount would be responsive to. To give a recent example, MoC actually tried to include China Gate in their Fuller at Fox set - originally a Fox production but somehow the rights ended up with Paramount - but Paramount were so uncooperative they had to release the set without it (they waited 'til the very last minute, but the Fox licenses were ticking over).

I previously suggested a label like Indicator or MoC could assemble a box set of Douglas Sirk or Preston Sturges titles - which are mostly Universal, but a few are Paramount - but no such set has been announced yet so I'm not sure if such a thing would be possible. I only really suggested it because of the news a few years back that Paramount were handing over their worldwide home video distribution to Universal (starting in the UK in fact), but it looks like that might have changed again since then as Paramount are quite actively releasing lots of titles in their back catalogue on Blu-ray. In fact, I wonder where Days of Heaven will show up (they've yet to announce the recent US studio disc in the UK, but have announced a number of others, including Rosemary's Baby).

Anyway, back to Indicator - I asked them directly and they said that they were the slowest studio to work with and so far only got one title from a list of titles they submitted to them (which they've already released, Badge 373). I imagine if they're lining up more von Sternberg titles from Universal it might not be enough to form a box set, but of course I'd love to be proven wrong (I'm inclined to think they'll likely just release Thunderbolt and An American Tragedy separately, like they did with the recent Howard Hawks titles). I also asked them some years ago about a Capra set but they implied Sony wouldn't let them license any, but that might've been before several of his 30's titles had been restored, so we could see a Capra at Columbia set from them eventually (there are more than enough to form a box set, but they may be waiting on better masters).

PS: Paramount are also finally making a move on titles long-requested in the UK - BFI are releasing Targets and One of Our Aircraft is Missing later this year; MoC have The Spy Who Came in from the Cold and at least one other big Paramount title on the way (I can't say, but it's one of my favourites); and I'm hoping some UK labels get some of the titles Imprint have been putting out in Australia - so I wonder if they've made some kind of internal changes to get that ball rolling?

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Drucker
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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#578 Post by Drucker » Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:58 am

Scarlet Street is also explicitly not within the mission statement of Indicator, which to paraphrase MichaelB is to basically highlight risky/more interesting and under-celebrated films produced by major studios, which I don't believe Scarlet Street was.

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domino harvey
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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#579 Post by domino harvey » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:03 am

The Snake Pit was not uncelebrated— it was nominated for Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actress, etc. So I don’t think it’s worth taking that mission statement literally

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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#580 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:11 am

Also some of the company's earliest releases are incredibly celebrated films, including an arguably even more popular Lang noir!

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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#581 Post by hearthesilence » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:13 am

Drucker wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:58 am
Scarlet Street is also explicitly not within the mission statement of Indicator
I didn't know they HAD a mission statement. Seriously, I figured it was more or less "shit we like and can/want to put out in a premium edition."

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domino harvey
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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#582 Post by domino harvey » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:26 am

hearthesilence wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:13 am
Drucker wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:58 am
Scarlet Street is also explicitly not within the mission statement of Indicator
I didn't know they HAD a mission statement. Seriously, I figured it was more or less "shit we like and can/want to put out in a premium edition."
If I had to guess, I'd have said Indicator likes to release British films, Hollywood films with a British connection, and a mix of rando classics and bêtes noires someone at the label digs

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#583 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:33 am

I’ve always sensed the most prominent connective tissue to be a scaled flavor of perversity, to Drucker’s point, which is why everything from Losey’s surrealism to Irreversible (kinda) makes sense

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EddieLarkin
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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#584 Post by EddieLarkin » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:03 am

rapta wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:37 am
Presumably that would involve mixing titles licensed from both Universal (Thunderbolt, An American Tragedy) and Paramount (Underworld, The Last Command, The Docks of New York) which they might be entirely open to but I doubt Paramount would be responsive to.
Ah, I forgot Universal had the rights to Paramount's pre-50s stuff!

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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#585 Post by MichaelB » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:07 am

Drucker wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:58 am
Scarlet Street is also explicitly not within the mission statement of Indicator, which to paraphrase MichaelB is to basically highlight risky/more interesting and under-celebrated films produced by major studios, which I don't believe Scarlet Street was.
Please don't assume that anything I say is any kind of official "mission statement"! And definitely don't use words like "explicitly" unless you're referring to something that Indicator themselves have (explicitly) said. I am merely a freelancer who happens to do a lot of work for them, not any kind of official spokesman.

Personally, I can't for the life of me see why Scarlet Street couldn't be an Indicator title if the rights happened to be available - not least because I can't see any obvious difference between it and Ministry of Fear, made by the same director just a few months earlier.

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DarkImbecile
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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#586 Post by DarkImbecile » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:17 am

BREAKING: Indicator revises mission statement, explicitly promises to release Scarlet Street

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domino harvey
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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#587 Post by domino harvey » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:28 am

You have to search for it, but the mission statement is up on the pH site
Indicator's Mission Statement wrote:Since 2016, Indicator has been dedicated to publishing whatever, who knows. Like, maybe we'll put out a film by, God, I don't know... um... Norman Jewison. Sure, okay. Then, geez, uhhhh... I don't know, something with Ralph Richardson in it? He's usually pretty good, y'know? Yeah, let's def do that.

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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#588 Post by Glowingwabbit » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:33 am

Based on extras alone I really hope Indicator does Scarlet Street instead of MoC. And to echo to what's been said not sure why a label that released The Big Heat (!!!) and Ministry of Fear would pass on Scarlet Street.

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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#589 Post by isakorg2 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:16 pm

While I can't say I'm that interested in Indicator's general fare, the quality of the transfers of films I have ordered is second to none - their Big Heat and Lady from Shanghai are superb, and worth getting even if you already have (as I do) the multiple versions of those films already available. I'll wait for their Thunderbolt and put the Kino offereing on hold, cost be damned.

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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#590 Post by Calvin » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:33 pm

I'm not sure who owns Scarlet Street in the UK - it's rare for a film to actually be public domain here, but seeing as it has had so many releases over the years it seems like it might actually be the case in this instance. But I would have thought that a more likely Lang to come from Indicator sooner or later would be You Only Live Once, which is owned by Studio Canal.

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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#591 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:46 pm

rapta wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:37 am
therewillbeblus wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:17 pm
rapta wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:24 pm
California Split (Robert Altman, 1974) - heavily delayed of course, due to rights issues out of Indicator's control, but recently added to the Criterion Channel so hopefully things are looking up...
Not to burst your bubble (and mine; this has gradually become perhaps my favorite American film ever, and I'm antsy as hell) but I'm pretty sure the issues come down to streaming/theatrical vs. physical media rights. At least that's what the article posted here indicated, and why it's been available without a headache in the full cut to stream on Amazon Prime vs. the DVD that was three minutes short or from Criterion/Indicator after years of tease
Ah, that's a shame. I did see that article when it was re-released on Prime Video but I guess that still means the ball is in Sony's court then. A shame as Indicator were obviously preparing this release years ago - their involvement showed up on a BBFC submission a few years ago now, and they've even teased the artwork in one of their promotional flyers. I wonder what the ins and outs of it were? I guess the benefit of waiting this long is that they can assemble a very strong extras package, and who knows, maybe they'll even make it one of their lovely slipbox editions (would genuinely love to own that poster).

I too love the film after seeing it on streaming a few years ago (February 2017 according to my Letterboxd), and was completely unaware of the music rights issues that plagued it. I must've watched the cut version I suppose? I wonder if Indicator and/or Criterion might include both cuts, or maybe not if it would cost them an arm and a leg...
My guess is that you saw the uncut version if it was streaming, but likely not in the correct AR. Since I had only seen the film on its Columbia Tri-star R1 DVD through compulsive lib rentals for years, my revisit last night via Amazon was likely the first time I'd seen the full cut and I definitely noticed some novel sections of breathing room detailing this unique world that were absent in the past. I highly doubt either company will release the film isolated in its cut state- otherwise they would have done so already. Indicator demonstrates a greater interest in releasing multiple cuts in their products, which I'd of course welcome to do a side-by-side contrast someday, but the holdup seems pretty clearly contingent on settling out the red tape complicating the 108 min version, and although my patience is wearing thin, last night's watch proved to me that it's worth it- not that there was any doubt

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Drucker
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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#592 Post by Drucker » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:53 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:07 am
Drucker wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:58 am
Scarlet Street is also explicitly not within the mission statement of Indicator, which to paraphrase MichaelB is to basically highlight risky/more interesting and under-celebrated films produced by major studios, which I don't believe Scarlet Street was.
Please don't assume that anything I say is any kind of official "mission statement"! And definitely don't use words like "explicitly" unless you're referring to something that Indicator themselves have (explicitly) said. I am merely a freelancer who happens to do a lot of work for them, not any kind of official spokesman.

Personally, I can't for the life of me see why Scarlet Street couldn't be an Indicator title if the rights happened to be available - not least because I can't see any obvious difference between it and Ministry of Fear, made by the same director just a few months earlier.
Didn't mean to make any sort of official declaration. But one time I'm fairly confident you said they fancy themselves to be the "Second Run for Major Studio Films." I can't find the specific quote for the moment.

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Finch
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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#593 Post by Finch » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:57 pm

The 4k transfer of Twentieth Century is sensational. Really outstanding work from Sony.

I just checked and Kino's Blu-Ray of Scarlet Street is from 2012 (!). Did Universal do a 2k scan since? I'm guessing not since
MoC's 2018 BD of Woman in the Window, while better encoded than the 2017 Kino, is seemingly from the same source which is not cited as a 2k or 4k scan. So I'm not expecting any UK Scarlet Street to look appreciably better than Kino's disc.

Yes please to You Only Live Once! [-o<

Since Indicator are into Altman, I wonder if they could get A Prairie Home Companion from Universal? According to Amazon UK, there either used to be or never was a Blu-Ray, just a DVD. I don't know who has the UK rights to Secret Honor though that might be even more of a hard sell than Buffalo Bill. A Wedding is with Fox/Disney, I believe, so not that one. Vincent and Theo had a UK DVD from Network back in 2007.

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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#594 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:02 pm

It really blows my mind that Disney/Fox wouldn't issue out HealtH, when they clearly don't and never have had any intention to release it on physical media. It's been uploaded in full on YT for years- so why not make some side money?

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Maltic
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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#595 Post by Maltic » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:04 pm

isakorg2 wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:16 pm
While I can't say I'm that interested in Indicator's general fare, the quality of the transfers of films I have ordered is second to none - their Big Heat and Lady from Shanghai are superb, and worth getting even if you already have (as I do) the multiple versions of those films already available. I'll wait for their Thunderbolt and put the Kino offereing on hold, cost be damned.
Are Indicator that much better than MoC overall? Of course, you're only as good as your source. The Columbia noir boxes were great, obviously, but the AQ/PQ for some of the films wasn't that impressive. Hard to compare when the two labels don't put out the same films, I guess.

As for extras, the more extravagant ones usually don't interest me that much, anyway. A good commentary and I'm satisfied. So there isn't a huge gap between the two labels in that regard, either, as far as I'm concerned.

As for Scarlet Street, I wouldn't buy a new release unless it was from a new scan. Although an Adrian Martin commentary would make it worthwhile. He has published both this article and this video essay (with Cristina Lopez) on the film, so it should be an easy assignment for him. There's a first-rate commentary by Kalat on the Kino BD, but still. There's also Tom Gunning, though he hasn't done a commentary since, like, LaserDisc days.

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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#596 Post by Calvin » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:50 pm


Finch wrote:
Since Indicator are into Altman, I wonder if they could get A Prairie Home Companion from Universal? According to Amazon UK, there either used to be or never was a Blu-Ray, just a DVD. I don't know who has the UK rights to Secret Honor though that might be even more of a hard sell than Buffalo Bill. A Wedding is with Fox/Disney, I believe, so not that one. Vincent and Theo had a UK DVD from Network back in 2007.
I'd love an Indicator release of Secret Honor; it hasn't had any form of UK release since the late 1980s.

I'd kind of expected Criterion to upgrade it during the recent election cycle but it is in need of a new transfer. Something like the TVTV documentary Four More Years would make a great extra too





Last edited by Calvin on Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#597 Post by PfR73 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:54 pm

Finch wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:57 pm
According to Amazon UK, there either used to be or never was a Blu-Ray, just a DVD.
Several years ago, a preorder went up from a company called The Works, along with several other films, and then none of them materialized. I remember one was 24 Hour Party People, which eventually came out way later from a company called Kaleidoscope.

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rapta
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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#598 Post by rapta » Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:32 pm

Calvin wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:33 pm
I'm not sure who owns Scarlet Street in the UK - it's rare for a film to actually be public domain here, but seeing as it has had so many releases over the years it seems like it might actually be the case in this instance. But I would have thought that a more likely Lang to come from Indicator sooner or later would be You Only Live Once, which is owned by Studio Canal.
Yeah, You Only Live Once does definitely seem like the kind of StudioCanal title Indicator would be angling for. They haven't done any Henry Fonda films yet either so that'd be a great start. I'd snap that up in a heartbeat!
Finch wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:57 pm
Since Indicator are into Altman, I wonder if they could get A Prairie Home Companion from Universal? According to Amazon UK, there either used to be or never was a Blu-Ray, just a DVD. I don't know who has the UK rights to Secret Honor though that might be even more of a hard sell than Buffalo Bill. A Wedding is with Fox/Disney, I believe, so not that one. Vincent and Theo had a UK DVD from Network back in 2007.
I'm sure Indicator will be interested in further Altman titles, but if they're still resistant to an MGM deal and Fox is no longer an option, there aren't a huge number of possibilities left. It's not clear who has the rights to The Player but I've mentioned elsewhere that I noticed it was on Prime Video UK from a distributor called FilmRise (who seem to be US-based streaming distributor) and was released on DVD by Pathé, so it's unfortunately not very clear who has the rights. Short Cuts is similar, as it was released on DVD by Paramount but it's not clear whether they still have the rights or not.

More likely titles seem to be The Caine Mutiny Court-Marshall (Sony), Dr. T & the Women (Sony), The Gingerbread Man (Universal), Cookie's Fortune (Universal), A Prarie Home Companion (Universal) or maybe Pret a Porter (Paramount, previously Miramax?). Those first three would be ideal for Indicator in my opinion, as they each seem to have decent masters and would both be quite interesting titles all-round. An MGM deal might be a good idea for Altman alone though: Fool for Love, Thieves Like Us, The Delinquents, O.C. & Stiggs...

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Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#599 Post by MichaelB » Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:41 am

Drucker wrote:Didn't mean to make any sort of official declaration. But one time I'm fairly confident you said they fancy themselves to be the "Second Run for Major Studio Films." I can't find the specific quote for the moment.
My phrase, not theirs, inspired by the fact that two members of the Second Run team also work for Indicator, as does a regular contributor to their releases (me).

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Re: Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

#600 Post by Aunt Peg » Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:15 am

therewillbeblus wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:02 pm
It really blows my mind that Disney/Fox wouldn't issue out HealtH, when they clearly don't and never have had any intention to release it on physical media. It's been uploaded in full on YT for years- so why not make some side money?
I remember reading years ago somebody saying that the problem with a physical media release of HealtH was in relation to music rights and that was back in the days of DVD. How true this is I don't know. It is my most wanted Altman on Blu Ray and I've only ever seen it once and gratefully on the big screen.

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