300-329; 354-357 Columbia Noir #1-6
Moderator: MichaelB
- willoneill
- Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:10 am
- Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2
It's kind of funny, since you'd think that after UHD became a universally region-free format, the pendulum would have swung that way for blu-ray as well, yet it seems to be the reverse. On the other hand maybe the labels are just trying to protect whatever potential physical media revenue they can.
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2
By excluding themselves from one of the world’s biggest markets?
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2
The rightsholders, not the labels.willoneill wrote:It's kind of funny, since you'd think that after UHD became a universally region-free format, the pendulum would have swung that way for blu-ray as well, yet it seems to be the reverse. On the other hand maybe the labels are just trying to protect whatever potential physical media revenue they can.
- willoneill
- Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:10 am
- Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2
Ooops, yes, that's what I actually meant. Typing too quickly.MichaelB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:28 pmThe rightsholders, not the labels.willoneill wrote:It's kind of funny, since you'd think that after UHD became a universally region-free format, the pendulum would have swung that way for blu-ray as well, yet it seems to be the reverse. On the other hand maybe the labels are just trying to protect whatever potential physical media revenue they can.
- willoneill
- Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:10 am
- Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2
The rightsholder (and indeed Region A-based label) argument is that it's not a level playing field - the US is a much bigger market than the UK, and so the US rights are a fair bit more expensive to clear, and US labels aren't happy about region-free releases from the UK that are universally compatible with US systems because they know that those discs cost less to put together. (Granted, the UK release has to factor in BBFC clearance fees, but they're still likely to have the advantage when all relevant costs are totted up.)
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2
But isn't this unhappiness quite theoretical rather than practical since in the end, the vast majority of people simply are buying the existing domestic releases and are most often unwilling to import (or sometimes even unaware what "import" is) ?
It reminds me a discussion I had with TF1 Video, who weren't very happy with the UK optional-english-subtitles release of Classe tous risques because it was threatening the sales of their potential French release. Yeah, well, except the BFI released their BD in 2014 and there still isn't even a French BD (and it's going to be sub-licenced to Coin de mire anyway for a possible 2021 release), so in practice, what were they afraid of exactly ? They haven't even released the damn thing !
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2
Well, region-locking doesn't apply between the UK and France, so presumably the optional subtitles were the sticking point - but unless the BFI had been contractually ordered to make them compulsory (which I assume wasn't the case, as in my experience the BFI is pretty scrupulous about sticking to every last dot and comma of every contract), it's hard to see what grounds they have for complaint.
But if a US label complains to a rightsholder about cheaper UK editions being too easily available, the implied threat is that they'll no longer continue licensing that rightsholder's titles unless they start enforcing region-locking. And if that happens, the direct hit to the rightsholder will be a fair bit greater because, as you say, importing really doesn't make much bottom-line difference in the wider scheme of things.
But if a US label complains to a rightsholder about cheaper UK editions being too easily available, the implied threat is that they'll no longer continue licensing that rightsholder's titles unless they start enforcing region-locking. And if that happens, the direct hit to the rightsholder will be a fair bit greater because, as you say, importing really doesn't make much bottom-line difference in the wider scheme of things.
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2
Yes, the optional subs were the issue : it seems TF1 haven't been able to contractually force them (whatever the reasons) and were unhappy about having a concurrent Region B release but again, in the grander more practical scheme of things, not only did they never so far have even released the movie in France anyway, but like Region locking between regions, if only a small fraction of people import anyway, how can a whole market be working around contractual clauses like these if it barely makes a difference ?
It looks like putting a lot of thoughts and technics in something that seems to only have a marginal impact on sales anyway. Moreover, I suppose most people who do import have bought a region compatible player so region locking doesn't prevent them from importing anyway. So it seems to concern so few people that the more heated discussions you're suggesting could happen between a rightholder and a label look like quite some over-reaction.
It looks like putting a lot of thoughts and technics in something that seems to only have a marginal impact on sales anyway. Moreover, I suppose most people who do import have bought a region compatible player so region locking doesn't prevent them from importing anyway. So it seems to concern so few people that the more heated discussions you're suggesting could happen between a rightholder and a label look like quite some over-reaction.
- rapta
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:04 pm
- Location: Hants, UK
Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2
Just chiming in to say I noticed the extras on Hawks' The Criminal Code mentions a comparison with the '1950 film noir remake', Henry Levin's Convicted. Guessing there's a good chance that will be in one of the upcoming Columbia Noir sets as well?
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- not perpee
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:41 pm
Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2
If you were to mention to TF1 that UK labels have hundreds of thousands of French citizens living in the UK to cater for, who need to see the film as the filmmaker intended, it utterly evaporates their pathetic unhappiness. Criterion have never forced player-generated subtitles on any of their discs, and neither should any UK company, ever.tenia wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:34 amIt reminds me a discussion I had with TF1 Video, who weren't very happy with the UK optional-english-subtitles release of Classe tous risques because it was threatening the sales of their potential French release. Yeah, well, except the BFI released their BD in 2014 and there still isn't even a French BD (and it's going to be sub-licenced to Coin de mire anyway for a possible 2021 release), so in practice, what were they afraid of exactly ? They haven't even released the damn thing !
Foreign labels who campaign to rightsholders for Blu-rays to be restrictively region-encoded just don't like the competition. The best way to stick it to them is to get a region-free player.
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
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- Contact:
Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2
I've never been contractually ordered to include forced subs. I was expecting to with the Argos licenses in Arrow's Borowczyk box, based on extensive precedent from that company, but in the event the subject never came up and I obviously wasn't going to mention it myself.
And yes, just get a region-free player. Sadly, there's no sign of major studios budging on this - if anything, they've got tougher on this in recent years, and I gather (although nobody's mentioned any names) that Region A labels complaining are indeed a factor.
And yes, just get a region-free player. Sadly, there's no sign of major studios budging on this - if anything, they've got tougher on this in recent years, and I gather (although nobody's mentioned any names) that Region A labels complaining are indeed a factor.
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- not perpee
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:41 pm
Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2
I kept finding it in contracts from French and Italian licensors, and I got it removed from each one before signing, by explaining that foreigners living in the UK need to see the film as the filmmaker intended.
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- Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:12 am
Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2
I certainly presumed that it would be Johnny O'Clock from the first announcement (given its inclusion in Sony's own noir collections) but isn't All the King's Men also considered to be noir?MichaelB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:31 amIt's certainly reasonable to infer that Johnny O'Clock is an upcoming title (Indicator has already confirmed a Robert Rossen title, it's clearly got to be either made for or distributed by Columbia, it can't be Lilith because that's already out on Indicator, and it's unlikely to be All the King's Men, The Brave Bulls or They Came to Cordura), but I never explicitly linked it to Volume 3 or indeed said anything that wasn't already in the public domain.
- Ribs
- Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:14 pm
Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2
While I think there’s an argument for it, it really isn’t kind of your prototypical noir like most of these sets are going with (and also has a way bigger profile that would better suit an individual release)
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2
For the rights holders, not the labels.willoneill wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:53 pmOr by selling the rights to a different label in that market. The thinking being that they can get a better price with region-exclusivity.
- TMDaines
- Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
- Location: Stretford, Manchester
Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2
And thank you for that.
With an HTPC, I can easily turn off even forced subs, but it is nice to have very fewer discs where that is a requirement. I think I have fewer than 10 out of several thousand, with only a couple where they are actually burnt into the video.
- rapta
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:04 pm
- Location: Hants, UK
Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2
Volume 3 announced for May!
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: 300-317 Columbia Noir #1-3
The Dark Past, nice! One of the most ridiculous bastardizations of psychology to ever come out of Hollywood. I thought it was Paramount (or possibly Universal after the catalog acquisition), not Sony though, so it never even occurred to me
- rapta
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:04 pm
- Location: Hants, UK
Re: 300-317 Columbia Noir #1-3
Wasn't familiar with it but Holden and Cobb are great so it's a must see for me! In fact so far this is the best lineup ('scuse the pun) so far!
That said I'm wondering if they'll still assemble all the Bogie titles in one set, or just scatter them through one or two or more volumes. I assume they've got things like The Burglar, Pushover, The Brothers Rico and Walk a Crooked Mile on the way...
That said I'm wondering if they'll still assemble all the Bogie titles in one set, or just scatter them through one or two or more volumes. I assume they've got things like The Burglar, Pushover, The Brothers Rico and Walk a Crooked Mile on the way...
- Boosmahn
- Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:08 pm
Re: 300-317 Columbia Noir #1-3
Based on quick Google searches, these films appear to have worse reception than those in the previous sets, but I'm still in!
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: 300-317 Columbia Noir #1-3
I’ve seen all of them and would not rate any of them very highly, but none of them are terrible either
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
- Location: SLC, UT
Re: 300-317 Columbia Noir #1-3
"I've seen all of them and none of them are terrible" would be a great pullquote
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: 300-317 Columbia Noir #1-3
This is one of those rare divergences between domino and myself, but I look forward to revisiting it. I recall the film attempted to be both resolutely sincere and outrageous, which didn't work for me.
therewillbeblus wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:04 amThe Dark Past: A noir that shifts towards the psychological rather than the existential but lays itself unapologetically transparent, a direction I fear is not necessarily admirable here. Cobb and Holden have some fun chewing on the outlandish material, but this is a very silly film, with Freudian dream analysis saving the day and initiating a cure that undoes social conditioning. I can appreciate that when taken as a product of the time, this was pretty daring to tackle such a bold presentation of the power of psychology as practically a mystical process. Unfortunately it was still tough for me to get on its level and not view it as ridiculous camp, when it’s trying to take itself more seriously than most noirs do even when venturing to brave places.