Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1001 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:47 pm

DarkImbecile wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:21 pm
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I think Nasir’s asking whether retaining the structure of the resolution — with the cultists in the house, threatening to do the devil’s work — but having Cliff shoot them without the more exaggerated, prolonged melee would change the way people feel about the violence.
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Yeah I get that, but it’s still brutal violence whether by a gun or by more ‘creative’ methods, and it seems like nitpicking at the specific details of how Cliff goes about killing the Manson family, when the proposed killing would still be killing and history is changed regardless, is strange to me - not in the sense that “less” would be more digestible to a person, but if the issue is the cathartic violence itself then changing the degree only services a subjective assessment of how an individual can stomach it which feels personalized and hypocritical (as long as it’s not upsetting to me, the violence itself is fine). That’s why I used perhaps a bad analogy, but I’ll rephrase - if one enjoys a romantic comedy whereby the viewer finds the personalities of the couple to be problematic and narcissistic but kinda fun so they rationalize their enjoyment of the film as acceptable if only the age difference was a tad more to their liking. I’m not suggesting that Nasir or anyone was actually arguing for this, and I think it’s fair to present it as a question but I also think that if one’s process was to forgive the cathartic violence in favor of such an option when the upsetting violence is the issue then I’d have a lot more questions as to why exactly we’re pitching these changes.

Nasir007
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1002 Post by Nasir007 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:48 pm

Never Cursed wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:27 pm
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I thought nasir was building off of zedz's suggestion that Cliff confront the car rather than Rick.
I wasn't. Maybe I worded my post in a confusing manner. My alternative ending is based on what happens in the movie.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1003 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:58 pm

So was everyone else's, though

nitin
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1004 Post by nitin » Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:54 am

Re zedz’ point and mfunk’s response, at least since Kill Bill, hasn’t violence been the only solution that Tarantino employs to break tension/solve an impasse? I have liked his last 4 films but that’s the one aspect that makes the later ones not all that surprising and a bit repetitive, rewriting history or otherwise.

I realise there are very vocal defenders of Mr T here so just to be clear, this is not meant to be a hot take but a genuine question.

On another note, and apologies if this may have already been covered previously in the thread, but re Cliff and his wife,
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the cut at the end of the scene is just as the boat starts to noticeably rock, and the last camera angle shows Cliff with the harpoon on his lap. I took the timing of that cut as possibly hinting that the harpoon fired accidentally when the boat rocked, but Cliff also feels guilty as he was actually thinking about firing the harpoon at that time.

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Boosmahn
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1005 Post by Boosmahn » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:59 pm

One thing I love in this film but have never talked about was the use/placement of The Rolling Stones' "Out of Time" on the day of the murders. It was solemn and heartbreaking, like the film telling Tate (and us) that reality has to be faced. Letting her simply exist and enjoy the moment was nice, but she's now out of time.
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(Of course, the ending swerved away from this outcome!)
I recently received the Blu-ray (finally!) and am excited to revisit it.

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TheKieslowskiHaze
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:37 am

Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1006 Post by TheKieslowskiHaze » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:18 pm

Boosmahn wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:59 pm
One thing I love in this film but have never talked about was the use/placement of The Rolling Stones' "Out of Time" on the day of the murders. It was solemn and heartbreaking, like the film telling Tate (and us) that reality has to be faced. Letting her simply exist and enjoy the moment was nice, but she's now out of time.
The other side of the song's clever double-meaning is that the timeline of the movie will be literally "out of time," historical reality wise.

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whaleallright
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1007 Post by whaleallright » Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:54 pm

The Stones song also had the feel of an encomium for the entire lifestyle or milieu that Polanski and Tate served (if only in retrospect) to represent.

I find this whole vein of (pop-)cultural history—Mansion murders as an "end of an era," etc.— to be fatuous nonsense. But I can't argue that Tarantino's film (and to a lesser extent, Anderson's Inherent Vice) doesn't animate it in a very powerful way.

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knives
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1008 Post by knives » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:19 pm

I don't think either film really does that. Or at least it was a thought that never occurred to me.

bluesforyou
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1009 Post by bluesforyou » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:52 am

"Powerful" is opinion ofcourse but both obviously do "animate" it. Although in Inherent Vice, the era has already ended and the characters are finding their footing in the new world.

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whaleallright
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1010 Post by whaleallright » Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:49 pm

The era obviously holds different meanings for Tarantino and Pynchon-via-Anderson, and their visions of the "counterculture" don't line up entirely, not least because the protagonists written by the former are mostly outside of it. But both films absolutely eulogize the '60s counterculture, relying in part on the trope of corrupted innocence. That's the most obvious point of contact between them, and the source of much of their pathos. (You might compare the uses of "Out of Time" and "Journey Through the Past" in the two films.)

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1011 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:52 pm

The key difference for me is that Once Upon a Time.. focuses on there being a progression of identifiable change, while Inherent Vice suggests that these people were always in a swamp with the ingredients of disconnection that has only become more aggressive and nebulous over time. The characters in Tarantino's film are and were always lucid, and can recognize and watch the changes occur before their eyes. In the Pynchon film (I'll refer to it as "Pynchon" because PTA does a wonderful job at infusing Pynchon's vibe here to allow the source to come alive), Phoenix never really was lucid, and not just because he's stoned. His memory of a fonder time (the recollection of his attempt to score drugs with Waterston) is still inescapably shackled to addiction and mysterious hurdles that he and Waterston cannot pierce (e.g. their the inability to find the dealer). Their failure ends in a nice embrace of the moment with Neil Young’s (best ever) song blasting as they get caught in the rain, but I get the sense that the memory’s catharsis (like many in real life) exists in hindsight, filtered from the loss of that relationship rather than transcending their addictive cravings in that actual moment it happened. Even though the transition into the 70s has increased paranoia and people grasping at straws to find meaning, the past of the 60s wasn’t a “better time” of 'uncorrupted innocence' per se, or one where people had more clarity. They only thought they did.

Perspective is important though, and the overlap exists in that DiCaprio and Pitt have been able to maintain their own positions, even in a changing world, until a time comes where they cannot hold on to their way of life or point of view with the same confidence. In Tarantino's film this only happens when the new ambiance has officially morphed into the dominant perspective, leaving theirs as the fading marginalized ones. In the Pynchon's version of the past, the passive attitudes (including mild paranoia) can be functional when enigmatic situations like the Ouija board and misadventure happen, because the characters accept this and their worldview is maintained with psychedelic occurrences happening in step with their vision. They are ultimately embracing a subjective form of clarity that can shrug off perplexing events, but over time, as the paranoia becomes anti-paranoia, and people begin to struggle with various evidence that nothing is actually connected or meaningful, the counterculture movement is revealed to be a hollow and deceptive cure for the people's longing for security. Nothing was ever 'clear' but when they had a comfortable rhythm going, this was at least functional. The anti-paranoia spinning out of control as everyone isolates into their pain is too unbearable so you have all these other groups popping up, lost souls separating and drawn to different pools, isolating themselves further by searching for belongingness and meaning, in barren deserts all alone. Though the era is revealed to be this desert in its essence, and 'perspective' is what propels oneself into a dream state of coping, or descend into a disease that kills a spirit. Rosenbaum said it best, in this quote (that first quotes a passage from Pynchon's Gravity's Rainbow):
Jonathan Rosenbaum wrote:“lf there is something comforting — religious, if you want-about paranoia, there is still also anti-paranoia, where nothing is connected to anything, a condition not many of us can bear for long.” Implicit in this formula is the notion that spiritual and philosophical as well as artistic coherence depends on connections, and the absence of apparent connections, yielding gibberish and chaos, makes paranoia a tempting alternative.
The "Journey to the Past" is romantic because it remembers a time when paranoia served just fine, but the atmosphere didn't change so much as it prolonged itself to the point where people began to see through its facade. In Tarantino's film, there is a physical shift in presence. Innocence is corrupted in the Pynchon by awareness to the truth of falsities in the milieu they've already been stewing in, though I probably wouldn't use that phrase myself in describing them! To the 'animating' - well, in the Tarantino this animation is a tangible reminder of the impossibility to hide from change and the overwhelming futility in finding validation of personal worth, and in the Pynchon the animation just signifies how distraught and exhausting this static milieu has become- change reflected by people in its inability to sustain acceptance of the enigmatic hazy space, as if everyone's been struggling through it for several lifetimes already. But there is that overlap in 'overwhelming futility in finding validation of personal worth' that defines the experience of characters in both films, regardless of the environment actually changing (Tarantino) or the people changing to adapt to the stagnant vapid state of it (Pynchon).


beamish14
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1013 Post by beamish14 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:28 pm


He's spoken effusively about his love of novelizations in the past. In particular, he's fond of Bob Gale's 1941 novelization due to the
character insights and backstories you get for them, although I can't imagine as many films where the character motivations are as
superfluous as that one.

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TheKieslowskiHaze
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1014 Post by TheKieslowskiHaze » Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:57 pm

That's pretty neat, especially the bit about it coming out as a mass market paperback first. But I am more interested in this (from the article):
Tarantino’s second work with Harper will be a work of nonfiction, Cinema Speculation. Tarantino has often cited film critic Pauline Kael as a literary hero and over the years has hinted he might take a career pivot toward writing about his film passions as a next career when he retires after directing his tenth film. This book is described by the publisher as a “deep dive into the movies of the 1970’s, a rich mix of essays, reviews, personal writing, and tantalizing “what if’s,” from one of cinema’s most celebrated filmmakers, and its most devoted fan.”

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Slaphappy
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1015 Post by Slaphappy » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:29 am

This book is described by the publisher as a “deep dive into the movies of the 1970’s, a rich mix of essays, reviews, personal writing, and tantalizing “what if’s,” from one of cinema’s most celebrated filmmakers, and its most devoted fan.”
I'm intrigued by tantalising "what if's" regarding the seventies. After seeing OUaTiH I dwelled a lot in thoughts about what would 70's movies have looked like with out the Manson murders, as the event is often regarded as the starting point of the paranoid and pessimistic atmosphere of next decade.

Stefan Andersson
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1016 Post by Stefan Andersson » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:34 pm

Hi!
Would much appreciate info about where the music from Hell River (Partizani, 1974) is heard in the film? The film clip with the flamethrower is AFAIK scored with music from Herrmann´s rejected Torn Curtain score, so it must be somewhere else.

Also, what music is heard in the deleted scene with Lancer & Johnny Madrid beside the stagecoach on the Bluray?

Thanks in advance!


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Boosmahn
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1018 Post by Boosmahn » Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:31 pm

I was browsing Tony Stella's site and now feel obligated to share his amazing artwork for the novelization cover:

Image


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domino harvey
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1020 Post by domino harvey » Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:05 pm

Why would they downgrade it so drastically?

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bearcuborg
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1021 Post by bearcuborg » Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:07 pm

That’s unfortunate.

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Ovader
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1022 Post by Ovader » Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:02 pm

Perhaps the first cover may be used for the deluxe hardcover edition to follow this autumn?

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dekadetia
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1023 Post by dekadetia » Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:34 pm

The cover with the photographs accompanied the initial press release back in November, so I think it's probably just a placeholder that's still hanging around on their website.

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Ovader
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1024 Post by Ovader » Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:17 pm

Slaphappy wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:29 am
This book is described by the publisher as a “deep dive into the movies of the 1970’s, a rich mix of essays, reviews, personal writing, and tantalizing “what if’s,” from one of cinema’s most celebrated filmmakers, and its most devoted fan.”
I'm intrigued by tantalising "what if's" regarding the seventies. After seeing OUaTiH I dwelled a lot in thoughts about what would 70's movies have looked like with out the Manson murders, as the event is often regarded as the starting point of the paranoid and pessimistic atmosphere of next decade.
QT mentions for a few minutes the "what if's" of Rick Dalton's filmography on this recent Pure Cinema Podcast episode. That bit starts at the 00:28:28 minute mark. He is unsure what he will do with the writing but I suspect it may be part of that book project.

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TheKieslowskiHaze
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Re: Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

#1025 Post by TheKieslowskiHaze » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:42 am

dekadetia wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:34 pm
The cover with the photographs accompanied the initial press release back in November, so I think it's probably just a placeholder that's still hanging around on their website.
That sadly seems not to be the case. The official OUATIH twitter account tweeted a picture of the book yesterday, and it's still that inferior actors-in-boxes one.

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