DC Comics on Film

Discussions of specific films and franchises.
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Peacock
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:47 pm
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#451 Post by Peacock » Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:30 am

What recent examples do you have in mind knives? I thought this was a modern anomaly.

Glowingwabbit
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 1:27 pm

Re: DC Comics on Film

#452 Post by Glowingwabbit » Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:35 am

therewillbeblus wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:38 pm
Unrelated, but I just started watching the Harley Quinn animated series on HBO (after finding out it exists just the other day, getting perfect reviews in its third season) and it's excellent- easily the best DC thing I've seen since Nolan's trilogy and a nice crude complement to the Batman animated series
Great to hear someone else is a fan. It's the only DC project I've loved since Batman: TAS (and Batman Beyond) as I'm not a fan of any of the live-action films made since. I've always thought of it as a cross between The Venture Bros. and a short lived Marvel comic, The Superior Foes of Spider-Man, which focused on a band of c-list villains If you read comics, I highly recommend the series.

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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: DC Comics on Film

#453 Post by knives » Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:03 am

Peacock wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:30 am
What recent examples do you have in mind knives? I thought this was a modern anomaly.
Depends how you define modern, but I recall a few stories along these lines during the shakeups in the ‘60s and ‘80s. I’d be surprised though if it has happened more than a handful of times since home video became a thing.

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therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: DC Comics on Film

#454 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:05 am

Glowingwabbit wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:35 am
therewillbeblus wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:38 pm
Unrelated, but I just started watching the Harley Quinn animated series on HBO (after finding out it exists just the other day, getting perfect reviews in its third season) and it's excellent- easily the best DC thing I've seen since Nolan's trilogy and a nice crude complement to the Batman animated series
Great to hear someone else is a fan. It's the only DC project I've loved since Batman: TAS (and Batman Beyond) as I'm not a fan of any of the live-action films made since. I've always thought of it as a cross between The Venture Bros. and a short lived Marvel comic, The Superior Foes of Spider-Man, which focused on a band of c-list villains If you read comics, I highly recommend the series.
Thanks for the rec! Batman: the Animated Series has been my go-to post-work show for about a year now. I've been slowly revisiting it with junk food after long work days as an inconsistent routine, and it holds up even better now than it did when I was a kid. There's no show I'd rather eat chips with- a perfect rhythm for languid action

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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: DC Comics on Film

#455 Post by knives » Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:09 am

Any plans to follow it up with the other Paul Dinni shows? That entire run from TAS through JLU is pretty unimpeachable. Even funky one offs like the Zeta Project stand surprisingly strong.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#456 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Aug 03, 2022 1:57 pm

I’m not seeing any affiliation between Dini and The Zeta Project, but I appreciate the rec- given that there are so many shows and limited time to prioritize them all, what Dini(s) would you recommend most from this period? I’m not even sure if I’ve seen Batman Beyond

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knives
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#457 Post by knives » Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:48 pm

The Zeta Project is a spin-off of Batman Beyond which both are part of a series of Dini-Bruce Timm made shows which at large are often called the Diniverse. They become heavily serizalized and self referential so it can become hard to jump around in them. The core set of shows are Batman:TAS, Superman:TAS, and the two Justice Leagues. Those are the “essential” shows with Batman Beyond being a sort of second tier followed by Static Shock (made by comic legend Dwayne McDuffie) and The Zeta Project.

The films are a bit more of a mixed bag with Mask of the Phantasm being a legit great one and the only truly essential feature. Return of the Joker is pretty good too, but not in that same greatest of all time league. The rest basically can be skipped though I have fondness for Subzero.

A final rec is Batman: Brave and the Bold. It has some of the same crew including casting and voice director Andrea Romano as the Dini shows. It’s kind of a reversion to the silver age and is an effective (and funny) counter perspective. I might post again with some episode recommendations, but as the Corman series shows I’m very lazy about posting.

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jwd5275
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:26 pm
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#458 Post by jwd5275 » Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:20 pm

knives wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:03 am
Peacock wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:30 am
What recent examples do you have in mind knives? I thought this was a modern anomaly.
Depends how you define modern, but I recall a few stories along these lines during the shakeups in the ‘60s and ‘80s. I’d be surprised though if it has happened more than a handful of times since home video became a thing.
A relatively recent example is Disney canceling Nimona after acquiring Blue Sky. It wasn't completely done, but still over 75 percent complete...

beamish14
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#459 Post by beamish14 » Wed Aug 03, 2022 11:24 pm

knives wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 7:35 am
Brian C wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:21 pm
The point still stands, though - no studio would do this if they thought they had a movie on their hands that people would actually enjoy.

Or maybe that's not true - maybe WB is just getting out in front of some horrible scandal that is about to break. That would actually make the most sense, like if someone involved was funding Armie Hammer's cannibal dungeon or something. Because even if the movie itself was the worst piece of crap ever filmed, they could still bury it on streaming platforms without anyone caring or even probably realizing it was out there, and then whatever happens happens ... maybe they get lucky and it finds an audience after all but if it doesn't, they're no worse off.

What they're doing here is making it disappear, and that's an extraordinary measure that only really makes sense if there's an extraordinary reason for it.
It doesn’t happen often for obvious reasons, but when studios change hands the craziest of things can occur including not releasing already finished films regardless of quality.

I don’t know if it was a regime change, quality issues, or a combination of the two, but Paramount’s Young Lust from 1984 is one of the more interesting examples of a film that received test screenings but has never received any kind of commercial release. Here is an interview with co-writer Bruce Wagner that touches upon

The Lorimar/WB-held Broken English (1981) played festivals but never got a release. A clip here

Hung Up (1973) apparently never received any kind of release. 20th Century Fox was supposed to distribute it.

New Jersey Turnpikes, a 1999 comedy with Kelsey Grammer and Orlando Jones, received some test screenings, but has never materialized.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#460 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:25 pm

Does anybody know if the Roadshow Entertainment Superman: TAS blu-ray set is the same as the WB distributed ones? I know they did a recent remastering and the sets look identical but I can't find out if Roadshow is using dated masters for their set or not

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EddieLarkin
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#461 Post by EddieLarkin » Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:59 am

Roadshow act as WB's distributer in Oz, so I'm sure they will be. Certainly the few discs I have from them are just copies of the WB discs released elsewhere.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#462 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:44 am

EddieLarkin wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:59 am
Roadshow act as WB's distributer in Oz, so I'm sure they will be. Certainly the few discs I have from them are just copies of the WB discs released elsewhere.
I figured as much but thanks for confirming!

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brundlefly
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#463 Post by brundlefly » Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:49 pm

The miracle of The Sandman tv series is that it is not one hundred percent terrible. Neil Gaiman’s comic is not an action/adventure book, it’s a book-book, a story built on interwoven stories about storytelling. Its stories are mythic and intimate, taking place across all of creation real and imagined. They are well-told enough in their static images and scattered phrases that they have become beloved. And like any good dream they can seem precious and silly when you drag them into the light. The real danger of a Sandman adaptation wasn’t that it would be turned into a police procedural (as I guess Lucifer was?) or stripped for parts for a Tales from the Crypt-style anthology, but that someone would try and do it all straight and poison the source. Actors playing ideas, standing still, taking deep breaths and uttering portentous gack. Occasional pauses for flat CGI spectacle. A once-living piece of art made dead.

There is plenty of that in this. It doesn’t help that the main character (already not prone to action, pitched as unsympathetic, supposedly resistant to change(*)) is played by an actor who looks like Owen Wilson-as-Derek Zoolander and who tries to sound as if everything out of his mouth hangs in a dark cloud. (Todd Klein is a great comic book letterer, but I don’t think people should go around vocalizing his fonts.) Gwendoline Christie’s Lucifer speaks so slowly you will feel eternity creeping by. A choice made for a captive audience. Huge chunks of comic book dialogue are read into the script. Characters lean into frame to recite background dialogue at each other then, check marked, lean back out.

(*)
SpoilerShow
Dream is practically hugging people by the end of the last episode. Don Draper can be captivating without being able to change for seven seasons, but the aloof and inhuman King of Dreams is going to be singing “Happy Birthday” to his co-workers before we ever meet the rest of his family.
But the tragedy of The Sandman tv show is that it is very much a tv show.

There is a heavy application of connective tissue. Sequential stories that belonged together just because they were put together now have recurring cast members. The Corinthian (Boyd Holbrook, doing Christian Slater doing Jack Nicholson) is in almost every episode (and somehow they still fail to do extreme close-ups of his eyes, perhaps because they look more goofy than menacing) as some binding Big Bad. There’s evident effort to find things for people to do to the extent the reassembled dream realm can feel like a workplace show. (A little Patton Oswalt goes a long way.) The denizens of Hal’s house are weirdly rendered as the alt-cast of Friends, with the creepy spider women now Phoebe-style quirky. There are time-eating “We need a scene here” scenes. Dialogue and themes are repeated just enough to feel like forced reminders. Dream gets a go-to action pose: He bows and blows digital sand at the camera.

The show’s also bound together by a lack of visual ideas. Occasionally they’ll recreate a specific image from the comics, but most of that level of allegiance is spent toward character design. There are a couple early aggressive travelling shots following ravens about, thankfully abandoned. Okay-enough flashes of black limbo stuff with the fates and during the battle in hell. There's a great, natural idea to show Rose Walker going from dream to dream, but none of the dreams have a smidge of the individual attitudes Mike Dringenberg, Sam Kieth & co. brought to them in the comics. Every digital fantasy backdrop looks like a digital fantasy backdrop. It’s mystifyingly shown in widescreen, and they refuse to do closeups of phone texts, as if this were meant to be seen in a theater. But it’s all very 21st-century fantasy television.

(Time spent in dreams doesn't often feel dream-like, more straight memory or fantasy. Which of course is not unusual. Gaiman tried a lot of ways of approaching dreams in the books and was most convincing when the images and text felt like an excited pile-on of ideas. One nice touch in the show: Characters personifying dreams tend to avoid answering direct questions. As dreams do. IIRC, Rose Walker starts doing this toward the end as well.)

It backs off a bit as the show goes on, but David Buckley’s score is heavy-handed, constant, and chintzy. Like the flat synth-as-orchestra faux-epic stuff they ply on Asylum blockbuster knock-offs. Some relief I suppose from all the Netflix series that feature non-stop high-profile songs. (There are some Corinthian-related on-the-nose soundtrack selections late in the run.) But it is an insecure application of music.

The veteran tv and veteran comic book adaptation guys behind the show have, with Gaiman’s blessing, made some smart patches and workarounds. Ethel Cripps is a pretty brilliant way to cut off one attachment to the DC Universe and grow another connection within the show. Brute and Glob have much more depth as Gault. Marrying two treasured stand-alone stories makes total sense, as does staging “24/7” as a Twilight Zone episode from hell. (Though paring Dee to a single-issue grievance makes his villainy issue-oriented and wan; he’s more terrifying before he ever gets to the diner, exhausted after it.)
They abandon the voice-over as soon as they can. They add some motivation to characters who may or may not need it. They add agency wherever they can. To the benefit of Jed Walker, to the detriment of Lyta Hall. (Their Hall character is a disaster.)

As splattery and gougey as things get, they soften a lot of the horror elements – again, to the benefit of Jed Walker – avoiding a tonal shift with later volumes/seasons. The first two books are bound as quests-for-three. But the showrunners pass over the chance to mirror “24/7” with a stand-alone cereal convention episode so they can tease the collectors in earlier and keep The Corinthian occupied. And anyway, by that time they’re already drowning in the mess they’ve made of The Doll’s House. That they’re better at the awkward, more basic first book doesn’t bode well going forward as things accumulate.
SpoilerShow
Though to be fair, that second book is built around a big swirling mess of ??? that takes up too much import to be mere MacGuffin. The show openly mocks it; Dream goes all “Uhhhhh” whenever anyone asks him about the reason for the vortex, Gilbert gets a chance to pontificate about it and tie it back into one of the themes they keep hammering at, and Rose equates the idea of the vortex with Barbie’s dream-prop Porpentine. The last-minute substitution of Unity, even if made logical, always felt like a cheap out. The series finds a practical use in that: Unity uses the moment (which I don’t think happens in the comics, could be wrong) to reveal that her rapist is Desire. It’s better than Dream just sniffing that out.

And while I take issue with the show trying to squeeze in every line from the book, I also object when it leaves out my favorites. Like the “Nice place.” “Yeah, it was a friend of mine.” exchange
Going forward. If that happens. There are reasons to watch, to keep watching. The stories are good ones. It is at least interesting to figure out why the re-telling of a good story does or does not work. As a fan there’s simple joy in seeing something you love played out in whatever form it may take. Goldie (adorable) and Martin Tenbones and Merv Pumpkinhead. Just thinking about Hob Gadling has always made me tear up. I’m easy there; I’m a sap. And the show’s good at bringing in welcome guests.
SpoilerShow
David Thewlis is better than this deserved. Though they cut Dee’s best line, too.
SpoilerShow
“Neat.”
I like Kirby Howell-Baptiste plenty, though I wish she’d leaned into her Mary Poppins joke harder. Vanesu Samunyai/Kyo Ra may be a rookie saddled with a sketch of a key character, but she smiles with her whole face and that’s one definition of pure win. Jenna Coleman is a bloody bad fit and I don’t think we need a Constan-tyne spin-off but I have residual Clara Oswald goodwill to spend. If you’re casting a show-stopping female impersonator and the man who created Hedwig is willing to make a scene or two you let him. And I had not seen that Stephen Fry was going to be Gilbert and squee’d when he turned up.
I have to look forward because the cost of fan-servicing is servitude and I pay my tributes. But all I ever wanted were the old books I already have on my shelf(*) and maybe the best thing about the Sandman tv show is that it’s thorough and capable enough that, if it fails, no one should feel tempted to try it again.



(*) In a box, in storage. Considering it a liminal space.
Last edited by brundlefly on Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:46 am, edited 4 times in total.

beamish14
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 3:07 pm

Re: DC Comics on Film

#464 Post by beamish14 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:52 pm

Thank you for your very detailed and entertaining review of The Sandman. I already vowed to never watch it, much like I will not see adaptations of Alan Moore’s work

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brundlefly
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#465 Post by brundlefly » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:35 pm

beamish14 wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:52 pm
Thank you for your very detailed and entertaining review of The Sandman. I already vowed to never watch it, much like I will not see adaptations of Alan Moore’s work
Don't know if you're including Damon Lindelof's HBO miniseries Watchmen in that, and if you are you've probably still heard the hosannas, but it's exactly the sort of adaptation I loved. Very much its own thing, willing to play with the source material to meaningful end. The stark opposite of Snyder's dead lump of a feature film. In case you're ever tempted to break that vow.

Like the comic, the Sandman show holds a spot for Moore's Boogeyman character. But for some reason (a joke, I guess? it can't be rights, can it?) they instead spell it as "Boogieman." Which makes him sound disco-themed.
Last edited by brundlefly on Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#466 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:44 pm

Speaking of a strange Lindelof/DC crossover, the best subtle running joke in the Harley Quinn series is how they repurpose a near-copycat version of Max Richter's score from The Leftovers during the "dramatic" moments. Never fails to crack me up, and it's even more hysterical for being coy about it

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Persona
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#467 Post by Persona » Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:36 am

I started a thread for The Sandman over in the TV forum. While I agree in principle with brundle's critical approach, 4 episodes in and I think is a very effective, worthwhile TV show -- which to me is something just shy of a stunning achievement, considering the source material. Apparently DOLL'S HOUSE doesn't fare too well in this format but I will reserve judgment until I watch it myself. But I have been very entertained and engaged by the show and, honestly, impressed at the way in which it works as an adaptation. The ideas of the comics really come through, and the changes made only help them come through clearer.

It's the best new fantasy thing I have seen in ages, though I guess you could accuse that of damning with faint praise given the competition.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#468 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:38 pm

I’m finally caught up on Harley Quinn and the show is getting a lot better in its third season after a dip in its second. The Eyes Wide Shut episode was gold, but the newest one’s political satire is the best lampoon on our recent intra-partisan divisions I’ve seen in a while. What makes the episode even stronger is that it's modeled in the skeletal structure of Batman: The Animated Series -isolated with the same kind of action-packed, episodic narrative formula of forward momentum- compared to previous episodes of the show, some of which definitely fell into the same comfortable rhythm. No wonder the reviews skyrocketed this season and grabbed everyone’s attention, it’s well-deserved

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Kracker
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#469 Post by Kracker » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:05 pm

James Gunn made his long (well it feels long) awaited announcement on the first projects in the new DCU's first phase.

Everything announced:
- Remaining DCU projects to be released all in 2023: Shazam 2, Flash, Blue Beetle, Aquaman 2
- Creature Commandos NEW James Gunn helmed animated series that will crossover into live action
- Waller TV series continuing from the events in Peacemaker
- Superman Legacy first film in the new DCU TBR Summer 2025
- Lanterns Green Lantern TV show feat. Hal Jordan and John Stewart
- The Authority Film featuring NEW team of satirical superheroes
- Paradise Lost Wonder Woman GoT-style prequel TV series
- The Brave and the Bold Film introduction of DCU's Batman and Damien Wayne
- Booster Gold NEW character and TV series
- Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow Film adaptation of story featuring a more jaded Supergirl
- Swamp Thing Film origin story

(NEW = characters new to film or TV)

Also James Gunn in an interview clarified Henry Cavill was never "fired", he was just never cast in the first place and the Black Adam cameo never meant that he was hired on for future Superman films. After all, at the time a Superman sequel was only "in development" which means they merely wrote it on a whiteboard and still had to find someone to write it.
Last edited by Kracker on Fri Feb 03, 2023 7:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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tenia
Ask Me About My Bassoon
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#470 Post by tenia » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:37 pm


Kracker wrote: Also James Gunn in an interview clarified Henry Cavill was never "fired", he was just never cast in the first place and the Black Adam cameo never meant that he was hired on for future Superman films. After all, at the time a Superman sequel was only "in development" which means they merely wrote it on a whiteboard and still had to find someone to write it.
Oh so it only was something along false advertising and shameless fan service, only because they could abuse this but actually had no idea if they would ever deliver about it, cool.

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bad future
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#471 Post by bad future » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:51 pm

Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow is one of my favorite comics from the last several years and I think it could be great material for a film (indeed, the story would already seem to be a riff on True Grit with a young girl enlisting Supergirl on an ill-considered interplanetary revenge quest) but ironically given that description, "more jaded" is not at all how I would describe its interpretation of the character! She carries a sadness with her from the loss of her planet, but in practice that only serves to highlight the quiet strength of her restraint and boundless empathy -- I would say it has a lot more in common with the more optimistic and kind Superman interpretations than edginess that would set it apart. Hopefully Gunn's description as "jaded" (and elsewhere "badass") is just a misleading choice of words and not a wildly different read on the material, because I think an adaptation in a similar spirit to the book could be something special.

ntnon
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#472 Post by ntnon » Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:39 pm

beamish14 wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:52 pm
Thank you for your very detailed and entertaining review of The Sandman. I already vowed to never watch it, much like I will not see adaptations of Alan Moore’s work
I see it was already said, but as HBO's miniseries is not an adaptation (and thus allows you to keep that vow), it is a worthy subMoore addition and - while flawed like Sandman - has enough moments of utter excellence to be well worth the time.

Sandman has Gaiman's stamp of approval, which counts for something, a very good (if inexactly-cast) cast, and multiple moments where the adaptation hits all the right points and reinforces the source material, underlining its Modern Myth status and cementing it further into popular culture.

Necessarily, there are misses as well as hits - though I've noticed with curiosity that many (levels of) Fans disagree about which moments are misses and by how much - but the whole is at least passable, unlike many adaptations. And if that reads as 'damning with faint praise' it certainly isn't entirely intended - moving classics into other media is appallingly difficult to do well, and that fact that someone finally attempted and got quite a lot of it done well is commendable.

ntnon
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#473 Post by ntnon » Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:47 pm

Kracker wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:05 pm
Superman Legacy: first film in the new DCU TBR Summer 2025
"Legacy" is an interesting word to use within the context of the DCU, and an even more curious choice when attached to Superman. I wonder whenabouts in his career the film will be set (among other questions)?
Kracker wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:05 pm
The Authority: Film featuring NEW team of Watchmen style superheroes
The Authority as an integral part of the DCU, or a separate corner? Sailing the Bleed/Multiverse or rooted in one reality? Butting heads with the JLA, replacing the JLA or neither? And will it adapt - or employ - Warren Ellis, or is he still semi-disgraced..?

Kracker wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:05 pm
Swamp Thing: Film origin story
More Moore, or not at all..?

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Kracker
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#474 Post by Kracker » Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:14 pm

Superman Legacy was probably the project he gave the least details on, just that Gunn is writing it and it will be the actual beginning of the new DCU. Odd because just about all the unrest is over what's going happen with Superman so you'd think he'd use the opportunity to talk some of these people off the ledge.

The Authority was actually the one where Gunn went out of his way to note that they would interact with all the other DCU/JLA characters. In fact, the point of this line-up is that every project would be part of the same overarching story so there will be no separate corners within Gunn's DCU.

ianungstad
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#475 Post by ianungstad » Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:33 pm

When Warren Ellis created The Authority he envisioned it as a superhero series with the aesthetic of a Michael Bay film. Will be interesting if they go after Bay to direct. I never followed The Authority post-Wildstorm era as DC executives pretty much knee-capped the series due to censorship issues.

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