Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

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swo17
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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#126 Post by swo17 » Mon May 25, 2020 4:50 pm

Much bigger problem is how Elisabeth Shue looks like a completely different person until time travel is invented, and more damningly, that this is never even commented upon within the world of the film

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#127 Post by movielocke » Mon May 25, 2020 4:51 pm

colinr0380 wrote:I always presumed that the question of why Marty was hanging around Doc was explained by the gigantic speaker system in Doc's workshop that Marty destroys in the opening sequence of the film! And Doc would be less reclusive and more open to Marty visiting because of his memories from back in 1955!
Obviously Doc sought out and recruited Marty to establish the relationship and has the sound equipment to keep him around.

Note how Doc’s performance in the opening is so different from his Doc in the closing, Doc is “acting” in the opener playing his role for Marty, because this has already happened for him.

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#128 Post by domino harvey » Mon May 25, 2020 4:56 pm

swo17 wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 4:50 pm
Much bigger problem is how Elisabeth Shue looks like a completely different person until time travel is invented, and more damningly, that this is never even commented upon within the world of the film
Didn't know you were a Shuether #TrustTheParker

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#129 Post by swo17 » Mon May 25, 2020 5:04 pm

This version of me is, yes. I can't speak for other versions of me

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#130 Post by soundchaser » Mon May 25, 2020 5:07 pm

Much as I hate to be ~that guy~, Doc in the beginning of the film can’t remember the events from 1955 because they haven’t happened for him in the narrative until Marty travels in the DeLorean. Time isn’t a closed loop in the BTTF series — if it were, the second film wouldn’t work the way it does. (Cue someone arguing that it doesn’t work at all...)

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#131 Post by dustybooks » Mon May 25, 2020 5:12 pm

Attempting to parse the reasons for Marty and Doc's relationship seems to me to take away one of the things that's particularly unusual and interesting about the series; I think it's a major benefit that Zemeckis and Gale don't create some hackneyed "back story" to explain why they are close at the start of the film. (Though if I remember correctly from my young days as an embarrassing nerd obsessed with this stuff, something like that was actually in an early draft of the screenplay.)

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#132 Post by colinr0380 » Mon May 25, 2020 5:17 pm

soundchaser wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 5:07 pm
Much as I hate to be ~that guy~, Doc in the beginning of the film can’t remember the events from 1955 because they haven’t happened for him in the narrative until Marty travels in the DeLorean. Time isn’t a closed loop in the BTTF series — if it were, the second film wouldn’t work the way it does. (Cue someone arguing that it doesn’t work at all...)
Yes I think I misspoke in that last comment and would certainly agree with that view of the film! The universe we return to at the end of the film is a new one where Doc remembers Marty and never died because of his letter, his parents are successful and Biff is washing cars! Almost like it is the utopian version of 1985 where despite Doc's concerns over Marty's 'tampering' with the timeline he has helped everyone around him that contrasts against the dystopian Biff-moulded alternate version of the world from Part II!
Last edited by colinr0380 on Mon May 25, 2020 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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domino harvey
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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#133 Post by domino harvey » Mon May 25, 2020 5:18 pm

If you guys like these kind of questions, you’ll love Fringe

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#134 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Tue May 26, 2020 11:07 am

Marty calls the guy on the homeless bench "Fred" when he comes back. Based on nothing at all I would say he is the 1985 version of the guy who steals Lorraine away from George at the dance, while Marty's disappearing act is happening.

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#135 Post by Roger Ryan » Tue May 26, 2020 4:23 pm

If we're talking about the character played by actor George "Buck" Flower, he appears as a bum on a park bench in both the first film and the first sequel. Apparently, the joke is the poor homeless guy's lot in life remains the same regardless of how the time-traveling alterations has affected everyone else.

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#136 Post by aox » Wed May 27, 2020 9:10 am

flyonthewall2983 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:07 am
Marty calls the guy on the homeless bench "Fred" when he comes back. Based on nothing at all I would say he is the 1985 version of the guy who steals Lorraine away from George at the dance, while Marty's disappearing act is happening.
It's actually, "Red". Though, the question remains if it is the same person as the mayor of Hill Valley in the 1950s, Red Thomas.

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#137 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Wed May 27, 2020 1:31 pm

In the 2nd one it is Red

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#138 Post by colinr0380 » Wed May 27, 2020 3:35 pm


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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#139 Post by Toland's Mitchell » Wed May 27, 2020 4:26 pm

flyonthewall2983 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:07 am
Marty calls the guy on the homeless bench "Fred" when he comes back. Based on nothing at all I would say he is the 1985 version of the guy who steals Lorraine away from George at the dance, while Marty's disappearing act is happening.
When exactly does Marty call him Fred?

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#140 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Wed May 27, 2020 5:24 pm

When he returns to 1985, and looks around at the town square.

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#141 Post by Toland's Mitchell » Wed May 27, 2020 9:20 pm

flyonthewall2983 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 5:24 pm
When he returns to 1985, and looks around at the town square.
But in which movie? At the end of the first one? In the second one when Marty goes to alternate 1985 with Biff in charge (he calls him "Red" in that scene)? Can you please share a clip if possible?

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#142 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Wed May 27, 2020 10:03 pm

Sorry. In the first movie Marty calls him Fred, in the 2nd it's Red.

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#143 Post by Toland's Mitchell » Thu May 28, 2020 2:24 pm

flyonthewall2983 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 10:03 pm
Sorry. In the first movie Marty calls him Fred, in the 2nd it's Red.
Hmm, I don't recall Marty interacting or mentioning the bum in the first film. I remember Marty jumped over him while running back to save Doc from the Libyans, but nothing else. I cannot find a clip. Would like to see one if possible.

Anyway, if Marty calls him Fred in the first movie, Red in the second movie, one occasion must have been a slip of the tongue.

It doesn't seem possible to prove one way or the other that the 1955 mayor is the bum in 1985. I think it's left to the viewer. Personally I find it illogical for reasons I already mentioned (the fact they don't look alike, the age difference). Again I think it was a red herring the filmmakers put in there just so we can still be discussing it 30 years later, just another one of many Easter Eggs in the series.

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#144 Post by Roger Ryan » Thu May 28, 2020 5:00 pm

I guess this is just taking us full circle, but here's what the backtothefuture.fandom site has to say about the matter:

"According to Bob Gale's commentary on the Back to the Future DVD set, the name of the bum was ad-libbed by Michael J. Fox. Gale also commented that the photo of the mayor in 1955 on the side of the campaign van was that of set decorator Hal Gausman, whereas the bum was played by George "Buck" Flower."

Personally, I think that settles it.

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#145 Post by aox » Thu May 28, 2020 5:55 pm

I can't find anything on the internet calling the bum "Fred", even a fan source. Even Google corrects me when I type in "Back to the Future homeless fred" (corrects to "Red"), which I know doesn't mean anything. The only character named Fred in the trilogy appears to be the taxi cab driver in 2015 who drives old Biff to Marty and Jennifer's house.

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#146 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Thu May 28, 2020 6:25 pm

My source was my Blu-ray copy of the first film, with the subtitles on.

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#147 Post by Rayon Vert » Thu May 28, 2020 8:39 pm

This took me less than half a minute to find on youtube. This is a video addressing the controversy, and coming close to 1 minute includes the clip. Apparently different releases use Fred or Red in the subtitles. I clearly hear an "F" in the clip though.

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy

#148 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:10 am

domino harvey wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:37 am
I thought Elisabeth Shue's crazed double-takes and winsome whining were a riot and I was pretty disappointed that she was mostly discarded for the rest of the series after the first forty-five minutes of the second part-- I mean, she manages to upstage Christopher Lloyd's theatrics! I'll concede that the first film has a great premise and execution, but the sequel is such a strange and complicated riff on the first that the audacity of its existence looms large.
The look of pity on her face when old Marty is fired is maybe one of the nice little dramatic moments of the film. I think one of Zemeckis' influences around this time was Blue Velvet, and that he managed to find a way to homage the scenes in the closet in a family film is weirdly commendable.

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#149 Post by colinr0380 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:21 am

I had never really thought of the closet scenes in that way flyonthewall, but I don't think I am going to be able to look at it the same way now! Its even weirder to think that the "Daddy" figure is just her boyfriend when he is older! (Although I suppose the older Marty in that scene is more in the role of the Isabella Rossellini character, given that another character appears (via a proto-Zoom call!) in the middle of the scene to abuse him!)

(EDIT: That Blue Velvet idea probably makes a bit of sense of that moment when the older Marty approaches the closet and peers into it for a kind of unmotivated reason too, as perhaps a nod towards Rossellini discovering her peeping tom! Though he does not open the closest door in this film to come face to face with his partner's doppleganger!)
Last edited by colinr0380 on Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Back to the Future Trilogy (Robert Zemeckis, 1985-1990)

#150 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:03 pm

The first two films are pretty subversive in obvious and less than obvious ways. The Rewatchables crew points out some of it in the first film like Marty cruising two girls walking by with Jennifer looking on, and the attempted date rape at the climax. It's laid a little thicker in the 2nd one, the core of it demolishing some of the more materialistic aspects of the first film. The alternate 1985 is certainly proof of that. I honestly believe that for the realm of PG movies, there is probably no worse villain than Biff in parts one and two. A misogynist bully, that becomes fully murderous in the alternate timeline. The third one is kind of a breath of fresh air from all of that but Tom Wilson is no less impressive as Mad Dog.

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