The Stranger (Luchino Visconti, 1967)

Discussions of specific films and franchises.
Message
Author
User avatar
otis
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:43 am

#26 Post by otis » Fri May 19, 2006 9:49 am

Can you explain what you mean by "meaning and purpose", and give one or two examples? I'm not being funny, but as so many discussions on this forum seem to consist of people talking at cross purposes, it'd be useful to get this clear before going further. I thought you meant something akin to "exploring the potential of the zoom lens in aesthetically interesting ways", and was trying to offer examples of other filmmakers who have done so (in my opinion, and certainly not taking anything away from Altman, who's obviously a master). Have I misunderstood?

User avatar
Scharphedin2
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 7:37 am
Location: Denmark/Sweden

#27 Post by Scharphedin2 » Fri May 19, 2006 5:15 pm

You sure do know how to throw a party, davidhare :lol: I too look forward to your reply on this one...

User avatar
Scharphedin2
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 7:37 am
Location: Denmark/Sweden

#28 Post by Scharphedin2 » Fri May 19, 2006 5:59 pm

How about Kurosawa... I think he used it very consistently as a part of his style as well, although admittedly not to the extent of Altman.

Anonymous

#29 Post by Anonymous » Fri May 19, 2006 7:21 pm

davidhare wrote:For him it's a visual means to dissociate individual actors and create the "Crowd". Also a way to maintain continuous action in long takes.
...and Kubrick uses the zoom to reveal details that comment upon the individual. Jancso and Angelopoulos use the zoom to move between framings that would otherwise not be possible, essential to the poetic rhythm of their filmmaking. Visconti, I think, is drawn to the visceral effect of the zoom, pulling us deeper into his characters' emotions. Etc.

Anonymous

#30 Post by Anonymous » Sat May 20, 2006 5:25 pm

davidhare wrote:Certainly the use of the zoom throws up the whole notion of Bazin's "open frame" and continuous takes, against decoupage or montage. I'm personally glad it's now used so sparingly.
As long as you acknowledge that's a highly conservative position.
davidhare wrote:For one thing the quality of exposure or the actual film grain, lighting etc seems to be critical and so many zooms in movies end up looking awful.
Don't see what you're getting at here. The zooms in Jancso/Angelopoulos/Kubrick are technically flawless.

User avatar
Dylan
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:28 pm

#31 Post by Dylan » Sat May 20, 2006 7:26 pm

What bothers me is handheld, which I find to be overused. I like handheld when I feel it has a strong purpose (whether in a singular scene, such as the forest sequence in The Conformist, or the basis of a film's style, such as Husbands and Wives or Rosetta). In regards to zooms, I think many directors have utilized them in an intelligent and meaningful way.
Last edited by Dylan on Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous

#32 Post by Anonymous » Sun May 21, 2006 4:57 am

Perhaps I misread your comment. I took it that you were rejecting Bazin in favour of Eisensteinian montage.
Last edited by Anonymous on Mon May 22, 2006 5:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

Numero Trois
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:23 am
Location: Florida

Re: The Stranger (Luchino Visconti, 1967)

#33 Post by Numero Trois » Fri May 21, 2010 11:31 am

Believe it or not, it comes to Netflix Instant Watch on June 1st. At least according to Feedfliks.

User avatar
zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

Re: The Stranger (Luchino Visconti, 1967)

#34 Post by zedz » Fri May 21, 2010 4:18 pm

I know the phenomenon of posting in a dead thread on the anniversary of the previous post is not unknown, but surely four years is a record? (And I have to admit that I probably wouldn't have noticed if David's previous post hadn't been so eye-catching!)

User avatar
tartarlamb
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:53 am
Location: Portland, OR

Re: The Stranger (Luchino Visconti, 1967)

#35 Post by tartarlamb » Fri May 21, 2010 4:46 pm

I was wondering why there was so much discussion in the last few days about this. Guess I should have looked more closely at the year stamp!

Since I've only seen a grubby pan-and-scan German dub of this film, I'll give this another go on Netflix and hope that its better. But I remember thinking that Camus's book really does not translate to film well. Taking Rotunno from the streets and beaches and placing him in a stuffy, crowded court room to film a long and preposterous trial brings the narrative to a grinding halt. And Mastroianni may have seemed an obvious choice to play the protagonist, bearing as he did a passing resemblance to Camus and having performed the existential malaise bit very well in La Dolce Vita, but he seemed bloated and past his prime in this.

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: The Stranger (Luchino Visconti, 1967)

#36 Post by domino harvey » Fri May 21, 2010 5:16 pm

I hate Netflix's choppy streaming on Macs, but I'll make an exception for this one. Yowza!

Numero Trois
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:23 am
Location: Florida

Re: The Stranger (Luchino Visconti, 1967)

#37 Post by Numero Trois » Fri May 21, 2010 5:30 pm

zedz wrote:I know the phenomenon of posting in a dead thread on the anniversary of the previous post is not unknown, but surely four years is a record?
I sure as fuck didn't know.

Why wait? It's on youtube with English subs. Ah, but I guess it's the German version tartarlamb mentioned.

User avatar
Dylan
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:28 pm

Re: The Stranger (Luchino Visconti, 1967)

#38 Post by Dylan » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:06 am

Numero Trois wrote:Believe it or not, it comes to Netflix Instant Watch on June 1st. At least according to Feedfliks.
This seems like a cruel joke, but Netflix is actually streaming the 1945 Orson Welles film "The Stranger" through the listing of the Visconti film. I was really, really hoping that Paramount (I'm guessing they still have the American distribution rights) would've licensed a restored print for showing on Netflix (as they recently have with "Looking for Mr. Goodbar" and other films that are MIA on DVD) but it doesn't look like that's happening. If we're lucky, somebody screwed up at Netflix and Visconti's film will be streaming soon, but... I doubt it.

Looks like the widescreen German dub with English subtitles on youtube is the only way to go for now.

User avatar
Fred Holywell
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:45 pm

Re: The Stranger (Luchino Visconti, 1967)

#39 Post by Fred Holywell » Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:53 pm

This thread's been dead for quite a while, but... since I just stumbled across it again... I thought I'd let those interested know that the Italian version of "The Stranger" is available on-line, with English subtitles, here. It's been there (off and on) for a few years now, as have the German, Spanish, and English dubs.

Image

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: The Stranger (Luchino Visconti, 1967)

#40 Post by domino harvey » Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:58 pm

Finally caught up with this, my sole remaining unseen Visconti feature, and hoo boy while I'm all over the place on his work as a whole, this is definitively his worst film for many of the reasons already expressed. Adapting the novel was a losing venture no matter what, but some of the laughably rigorous fidelity here in the early passages is a good reminder that those who believe a good book adaptation needs to slavishly parrot the source text are missing the bigger picture. Mastroianni is embarrassing, phoning it in and confusing malaise and ennui with blankness. Karina's affected kittenishness here is more frosh posturing than anything approaching liveliness. But nothing else competes with or can prepare you for the zoooooom, zooooooom, zoooooooom X 10000

User avatar
Fred Holywell
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:45 pm

Re: The Stranger (Luchino Visconti, 1967)

#41 Post by Fred Holywell » Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:51 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:58 pm
Finally caught up with this, my sole remaining unseen Visconti feature, and hoo boy while I'm all over the place on his work as a whole, this is definitively his worst film for many of the reasons already expressed. Adapting the novel was a losing venture no matter what, but some of the laughably rigorous fidelity here in the early passages is a good reminder that those who believe a good book adaptation needs to slavishly parrot the source text are missing the bigger picture. Mastroianni is embarrassing, phoning it in and confusing malaise and ennui with blankness. Karina's affected kittenishness here is more frosh posturing than anything approaching liveliness. But nothing else competes with or can prepare you for the zoooooom, zooooooom, zoooooooom X 10000
I seem to remember reading that Visconti thought Mastroianni wrong for the part early on and wanted Delon to replace him. But Marcello had some sort of deal with the Camus estate that guaranteed him the film, and he was hell bent on doing it. His dream role or something.

And yes, that zooming. Like a kid on too much sugar with a new toy, he wouldn't leave it alone. This line from a Slant review of The Damned applies as much to The Stranger, I suppose: "Luchino Visconti’s overuse of superfluous zoom-lens trickery suggests that he was barely in control of his own worst impulses."

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: The Stranger (Luchino Visconti, 1967)

#42 Post by domino harvey » Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:18 pm

I don’t recall their use being an issue before his segment of Le streghe, but they are Adult Swim-level non-sequitur here

User avatar
Drucker
Your Future our Drucker
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 9:37 am

Re: The Stranger (Luchino Visconti, 1967)

#43 Post by Drucker » Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:11 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:58 pm
Finally caught up with this, my sole remaining unseen Visconti feature, and hoo boy while I'm all over the place on his work as a whole, this is definitively his worst film for many of the reasons already expressed. Adapting the novel was a losing venture no matter what, but some of the laughably rigorous fidelity here in the early passages is a good reminder that those who believe a good book adaptation needs to slavishly parrot the source text are missing the bigger picture. Mastroianni is embarrassing, phoning it in and confusing malaise and ennui with blankness. Karina's affected kittenishness here is more frosh posturing than anything approaching liveliness. But nothing else competes with or can prepare you for the zoooooom, zooooooom, zoooooooom X 10000
I caught this film in 35mm a few years ago during a Mastroianni retrospective (and sat next to Colonel West at the screening!). Dom's 100% right here. The film and print was quite beautiful, but the tone of the film was completely wrong and well it's hard to imagine a worst cast actor as the protagonist for this particular adaptation.

The Stranger
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:00 am

Re: The Stranger (Luchino Visconti, 1967)

#44 Post by The Stranger » Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:06 am

Hello. Like many here I have been trying to find a decent copy of this for ages, to be able to appreciate the great cinematography, art direction and subtleties of the film. The great news is that there is now a Japanese Blu Ray available, with great image quality. The challenging thing is that it comes only in two option: in Italian with Japanese subtitles or dubbed in Japanese with no subtitles. Nevertheless, it is a wonderful movie when seen in a version with a little more quality. Hopefully Criterion will do their version soon.

https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/マルチェロ・マスト ... 131&sr=8-1

Post Reply