Mumblecore

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bearcuborg
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:30 am
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Re: Mumblecore

#51 Post by bearcuborg » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:00 am

planetjake wrote:
bearcuborg wrote:In defense of Swanberg, I will say I felt the same way when I first encountered experimental films/videos/installations. However, my most prized DVDs in a collection of thousands, are the works of experimental/underground and avant garde artists. My introduction (like most) to their work was probably from watching music videos, however when I actually saw the original source of the work I wanted to resist just like Swanberg. However, if you look at his films you will see that he is actually on the wavelength of experimental artists, rather than conventional filmmakers.

I appreciate his honest remarks. Brakhage, who taught young filmmakers, would have probably appreciated the honesty too.
I'm not super offended by his remarks or anything. I heard that kind of stuff at film school (from teachers as well as students) EVERY DAY. It's just that he makes no attempt to asses the work beyond his initial impressions beyond "I have a more open mind now!"
Have you seen Swanberg's movies? He obviously makes movies with experimental filmmakers/musicians influences, she's he has more than an open mind, he's interpreting their work too. As for assessing Brakhage in his top 10 list, he's probably given a limited space to write. I don't know what you guys expect from the guy...

Mumblecore gets such a bad rap, and that's unfortunate because they are really doing something quite spectacular.

As for the Bresson joke, I guess that was funny but I would like to see a detailed post with examples. I write this in curiosity and not in sarcasm.

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John Cope
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:40 pm
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Re: Mumblecore

#52 Post by John Cope » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:47 am

bearcuborg wrote:Mumblecore gets such a bad rap, and that's unfortunate because they are really doing something quite spectacular.
What is that?

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justeleblanc
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:05 pm
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Re: Mumblecore

#53 Post by justeleblanc » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:09 am

bearcuborg wrote:Justleblanc, Elegant Dandy...

Justle...: That was a thoughtful post, and I would like to know what it was you disliked about Swanberg's movies in his mumblecore thread. Elegant...: You may dislike him of course and I would love to hear why as well.

Evil Light: Thanks for the post, I'll read and respond to your reviews soon!
bearcuborg,

It really is just a matter of his priorities as a filmmaker. For one, he's very fascinated with depicting non-simulated sex, something that -- in the grand scheme of things -- is as inconsequential as the color of the drapes. His continued emphasis on this, which he now wears on his sleeve, tells me that his understanding of cinema as a medium, and what the more interesting conversations have been among filmmakers and their films, is a very naive perspective. It also doesn't help that his contribution to the sexual is fairly banal. In addition, his characters might be exact replicas of real people, but I can't help but read that their 'honesty' with respect to relationships is a manifestation of Swanberg's own views, and this perspective is pretty shallow, a notch above RENT but still below SEX AND THE CITY. And with this, there is little variety among the characters in his films. His entire output thus far -- and I'm guessing what's coming up next -- are really variations on a 23 year old with the wisdom of a ten year old. If this is all he can write and all that he can direct, then sadly, this is all that he knows. And lastly, he is very what-you-see-is-what-you-get, and his attempts to create a moment of personal expression just fail on delivery. A perfect example of this is Justin Rice reading Poe's THE BELLS in Alexander the Last. Really, despite its attempt to create a tonal event within the film, all it does is kill time, transparently so.

So again, he needs to cease this film making for a few years, mature as a human being, learn a thing or two about the human condition, and read some Balzac. Then maybe, if he still wants to try to make a decent film, he can do so then.

And for the record, I did like Mutual Appreciation quite a bit, so I have nothing against this new DIY movement called mumblecore.

planetjake

Re: Mumblecore

#54 Post by planetjake » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:35 am

bearcuborg wrote:
planetjake wrote:
bearcuborg wrote:In defense of Swanberg, I will say I felt the same way when I first encountered experimental films/videos/installations. However, my most prized DVDs in a collection of thousands, are the works of experimental/underground and avant garde artists. My introduction (like most) to their work was probably from watching music videos, however when I actually saw the original source of the work I wanted to resist just like Swanberg. However, if you look at his films you will see that he is actually on the wavelength of experimental artists, rather than conventional filmmakers.

I appreciate his honest remarks. Brakhage, who taught young filmmakers, would have probably appreciated the honesty too.
I'm not super offended by his remarks or anything. I heard that kind of stuff at film school (from teachers as well as students) EVERY DAY. It's just that he makes no attempt to asses the work beyond his initial impressions beyond "I have a more open mind now!"
Have you seen Swanberg's movies? He obviously makes movies with experimental filmmakers/musicians influences, she's he has more than an open mind, he's interpreting their work too. As for assessing Brakhage in his top 10 list, he's probably given a limited space to write. I don't know what you guys expect from the guy...

Mumblecore gets such a bad rap, and that's unfortunate because they are really doing something quite spectacular.

As for the Bresson joke, I guess that was funny but I would like to see a detailed post with examples. I write this in curiosity and not in sarcasm.
Actually, a number of people who've contributed their top ten wrote substantially (and at length) about their selections. I don't understand why you feel Swanberg is exempt from criticism. Look at the lists of Allison Anders and Jean-Pierre Gorin. What do we expect from the guy? Adequate reasoning behind his selections? Not lame-duck excuses? Granted, the majority of the lists are pretty lame. But why be the rule an not the exception? Furthermore, why make excuses for him? It's just a stupid list for crying out loud.

I've not seen any of his films but from what I've read over the years, I probably wouldn't care about them one way or another. I'm always open to new suggestions however, and if you'd like to explain to me how it is that Swanberg is interpreting the work of experimental filmmakers, I'd absolutely love to read it. It might even make me curious about his work. Which (Avant-Garde) filmmakers? How is he interpreting these filmmakers through his work? I also write this in curiosity and not in sarcasm.

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Jun-Dai
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Re: Mumblecore

#55 Post by Jun-Dai » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:39 am

After watching a few of the short films online, I can't say I'm excited to see any mumblecore feature-length works, but I might give one a shot. I say let them do their thing and see what comes of it, however. There's no harm in it. While I'm definitely of the opinion that there's a fundamental difference between realist non-acting and poor-quality amateur acting, I'm not sure that those whose filmmaking traditions were being overturned by the Neorealists, et al, would make much of the distinction.

I definitely don't see anything to get excited by, and I have no interest in jumping on the bandwagon, but that doesn't mean that something worthwhile won't come out of it. Dogme 95 seems like something of a disappointment, but this, that, and any other attempt to rework the language and traditions of cinema are welcome to me, even if most of the new ideas aren't particularly new, and if in the end it just gets shuffled into a small footnote or paragraph in the 7th edition of A History of Narrative Film.

Anyhow, it's not like Swanberg is wasting precious cinematic talent on this exercise, or like there's a whole lot going on in American independent/underground/new-wave/etc. film right now that this is taking focus from. Hopefully with some considered re-examination, Swanberg will get better at what he does and find something more interesting to do it to—or alternatively, perhaps we will later realize that he was right all along and that we were fools for not recognizing his genius when it first sprung forth.

I am getting a little tired of all the anti-aesthetic going on these days, but I suppose it's a natural response to the YouTube/Internet age and the fact that video is in the final stages of taking over the world of filmmaking.

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gokinsmen
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 6:22 pm

Re: Mumblecore

#56 Post by gokinsmen » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:33 am

I think you could easily madlib Swanberg's blurb about Brakhage into something analogous about mumblecore:
I was exposed to mumblecore films during college, and like most cocky film students who want to make independent films, I thought it was bullshit. I wanted to make real movies, and I had no idea what this stuff was—it seemed like anyone could just fuck around with a camcorder and some tape and point the camera at different twenty-somethings and make a movie. What was the point? And what could anyone possibly see in the work? Those questions are still worth asking, but I’m asking them with an open mind now, and it’s thanks to filmmakers like Swanberg, who were brave enough to make no-budget films. I don’t love most of the work, but I still appreciate it.
(*Btw, I'm a long-time reader, first-time poster)

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Jun-Dai
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Re: Mumblecore

#57 Post by Jun-Dai » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:27 pm

Wow, nice catch. Pretty awesome how easily that transforms.

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brendanjc
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:29 am
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Re: Mumblecore

#58 Post by brendanjc » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:46 pm

I'm not sure I completely understand the dismissive attitude towards the genre here, but perhaps that's just because I haven't seen any of the poorer examples of it yet. I believe the only two films I've seen that qualify as "mumblecore" are Baghead, which I caught at SIFF last year and was one of my favorite surprises, and Humpday which is one of the best-received films at the festival this year. The first was a very clever genre exercise that benefited tremendously from its naturalistic style, and the latter is simply one of the funniest things I've seen this year. However, both films are definitely scripted (even if some of the dialogue might be improvised) and I didn't find anything distracting or "amateur" about the acting in either of them, so maybe they're not good exemplars of the genre?

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Eric WK
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:17 pm
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Re: Mumblecore

#59 Post by Eric WK » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:34 pm

brendanjc wrote:However, both films are definitely scripted (even if some of the dialogue might be improvised) and I didn't find anything distracting or "amateur" about the acting in either of them, so maybe they're not good exemplars of the genre?
I haven't seen Baghead or Humpday so I can't directly compare them to the Mumblecore films I've seen, but I do think the movement has moved slightly away from the distracting, poor acting of its roots. Or perhaps it's just a result of more films being classified as Mumblecore recently - the two you cited as well as movies like In Search of a Midnight Kiss, Medicine for Melancholy, etc. I have seen In Search of a Midnight Kiss and although I didn't care for it, the acting was certainly better than it was in, say, Kissing on the Mouth.

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the movement as a whole, though. I've watched and enjoyed both of the Aaron Katz films (the acting didn't bother me in either one), but I'm not a very big fan of Swanberg's output. I haven't seen any of Andrew Bujalski's movies so I can't comment there.

James
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:11 pm

Re: Mumblecore

#60 Post by James » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:01 pm

I saw Baghead yesterday and it was good, but I wouldn't compare it to the "mumblecore" movies I've seen — Mutual Appreciation and Quiet City — which were both interminable.

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Tark
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:44 am
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Re: Mumblecore

#61 Post by Tark » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:00 pm

Baghead is on my hated it list.

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jbeall
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:22 am
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Re: Mumblecore

#62 Post by jbeall » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:10 pm

Does "Beeswax Mark the Death of Mumblecore?
Andrew O'Hehir wrote:"Mumblecore" has had a short and unhappy life as a film genre, and it's time to shoot it in the head.
O'Hehir's actually claiming that "Beeswax," which he liked, isn't mumblecore, but since he catalogs the ways in which it isn't, I decided to post the link here.

Cheerupemokid
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:36 pm

Re: Mumblecore

#63 Post by Cheerupemokid » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:41 pm

brendanjc wrote:I'm not sure I completely understand the dismissive attitude towards the genre here, but perhaps that's just because I haven't seen any of the poorer examples of it yet. I believe the only two films I've seen that qualify as "mumblecore" are Baghead, which I caught at SIFF last year and was one of my favorite surprises, and Humpday which is one of the best-received films at the festival this year. The first was a very clever genre exercise that benefited tremendously from its naturalistic style, and the latter is simply one of the funniest things I've seen this year. However, both films are definitely scripted (even if some of the dialogue might be improvised) and I didn't find anything distracting or "amateur" about the acting in either of them, so maybe they're not good exemplars of the genre?
Those are two of the films in this however-you-want-to-classify-it style that I have seen as well, with The Puffy Chair and Hannah Takes The Stairs being the only other two I have viewed. Humpday would definitely classify as my favorite of that short list so far. The film was entertaining if nothing else, and I had a lot of fun watching it. Baghead was okay, personally the main concept/joke got old a little too fast. The Puffy Chair was good, not much else to say. And then there's Hannah Takes The Stairs, definitely my least favorite of the bunch. Overall I thought the film was good, in some strange way I liked the main characters and enjoyed most of what was going on throughout the picture, but there definitely wasn't much of importance at all at play here. I've forever had a hard time getting over that this movie was essentially a bunch of people in their mid-twenties losing their minds because the A/C doesn't work and it is a particularly hot summer.

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gokinsmen
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 6:22 pm

Re: Mumblecore

#64 Post by gokinsmen » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:51 am

Since no one's mentioned it yet, I'll say that Kentucker Audley's Team Picture is probably my favorite amongst the several m-word films I've seen so far, and one of the few that I'd actually recommend to other people.

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therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: Mumblecore

#65 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun May 30, 2021 1:04 am

Funny Ha Ha, allegedly the "first" mumblecore film, is a flat-out masterpiece and it's no wonder the movement kicked off with such fervor from here. Kate Dollenmayer is such a natural, familiar human being, whose awkwardness and emotional spirit works so well within the contorted comedy of manners and authentic drama of emerging adulthood, that my biggest takeaway during my revisit was that I wish she was in more movies as a star performer. Her odd conversations with Bujalski, especially that dinner date, expose honest social challenges with sharp observations and empathy, unlike nearly every genre-entry that followed. The film just works, and although Bujalski tends to be the most consistent director in this field, his first film may still be his best, as it's the most earnest depiction of the intimate shades of humanity upon which the mumblecore style attempts to drop its needle.

I can't pretend to be subjective on this one, as the movie takes place in Allston five minutes away from me and in the neighborhoods where I spent a significant portion of my life; Dollenmayer also frequently wears a Mason Rice T-shirt, reppin' the elementary school right down the street from both where I live now and- in the opposite direction- from where I grew up, where many memories were formed through decades of my formative years; and I have a particular sensitivity to films that get aimless post-undergrad years of existential crises born from banality and social disconnect so right. I love imperfect, self-conscious, adrift, witty, somewhat shy, and kind people, who can't help but let their selfish impulses bubble up. I identify with parts of Dollenmayer's character, and am grateful to have known many people like her. This is my milieu of interest, literally in physical space and personalities, and generally in temperament.

For those interested, I just stumbled across the revelation that this film is out on blu-ray from Factory 25. I can't find reviews anywhere online, but it seems to be an interesting package.

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swo17
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Re: Mumblecore

#66 Post by swo17 » Sun May 30, 2021 2:11 am

I wasn't aware, thanks for the tip!

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therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: Mumblecore

#67 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun May 30, 2021 5:31 pm

It’s also currently on sale for their tenth anniversary, by 1/3 of the price. No idea how long it’ll last though. Also, I’m confused by their site- if this is a pre-order for next Nov or if the page just hasn’t been updated.. seems like this has been out for a while going by blu-ray.com

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therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: Mumblecore

#68 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:59 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 1:04 am
For those interested, I just stumbled across the revelation that this film is out on blu-ray from Factory 25. I can't find reviews anywhere online, but it seems to be an interesting package.
I just got the Funny Ha Ha blu-ray/book in the mail (putting to rest any fears that it would come out this Fall) and there's good news and bad. The image looks great and film-like and it's in the correct AR of 1:33.1, but sadly it is a BD-R and comes in a paper disc holder within the book itself- like those physical Netflix discs used to come in- glued to the back page, giving me a moment of fright when I received my copy and thought it was just a book (warning, do not bend- there's a disc in the back!). Here are some photos (using another Bujalski blu-ray to compare size):

ImageImage

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