Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

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colinr0380
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#76 Post by colinr0380 » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:24 pm

davebert wrote:And like I told my wife, this is the only series where I can fully appreciate the absurdity of the hero's doctorate in Physics of Destruction. Getting cars to fly up abutments at just the right angle, or traveling up a street in the process of collapsing--it makes sense that Bruce would have this kind of knowledge permanently seared in his brain after three previous adventures.
Isn't that the manoeuvre where you have to press the circle and square keys at the same time while moving backwards and pressing the fire button? Tricky to do before you get the hang of it! :wink:

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Wiseman, 2007)

#77 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:25 am

Wiseman is attached to the next film in the franchise, one that takes place partly in 1979 with McClane as a rookie cop.

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domino harvey
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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#78 Post by domino harvey » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:04 pm

The new Die Hard Legacy box (the one without the stupid toy tower) advertised in big bold print that it would contain the unrated version on Blu-ray. It doesn't. Good work, Fox!

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#79 Post by beamish13 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:51 pm

domino harvey wrote:The new Die Hard Legacy box (the one without the stupid toy tower) advertised in big bold print that it would contain the unrated version on Blu-ray. It doesn't. Good work, Fox!
False advertising, yes. A tragedy to not have this film? No. Hell, I wouldn't care if Fox took the negatives of this and the 5th in the series and destroyed them \:D/

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#80 Post by domino harvey » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:21 am

Just got a copy of the new stock from Amazon and it contains the actual unrated version in Blu-ray now! Was such a treat to finally be able to see this on one Blu-- it's still just as crazy-inventive an action film as there ever has been. Only downside is now I own A Good Day to Die Hard

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#81 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:49 am

I've been curious for a while as you in particular have been fixated on getting the unrated version - is the only difference that "motherfucker" is said several times or is it more substantial than that? Also, how long are Kevin Smith's jorts in the film? I'll hang up and listen and take my answers off the air

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#82 Post by domino harvey » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:20 am

Seeing as how they are advertising this set on the strength of the unrated cut finally being included (it's in huge print on the cover), it's certainly not me in particular. For me it's just not Die Hard without swearing and blood, and this is the version I've always known and loved. And I'm not sure we see Smith's legs, but there are plentiful tasteful shots of his sleeveless flannel vest

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#83 Post by swo17 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:32 am

Does Vinessa Shaw get naked in it?

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#84 Post by domino harvey » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:37 am

swo17 wrote:Does Vinessa Shaw get naked in it?
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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#85 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:10 am

I had been privy to this bit of creepery by Wells since its origins, but never once googled to put a name to a face re: Vinessa Shaw. I regret to announce that I also want the unreleased nudes.

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#86 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:12 am

I've come around to this film over time, especially the fun in which Willis and Long have in stretching the mismatched buddy dynamic to extremes that play with deficits in generational cultural competence, from music taste to technological skills/fears to compartmentalized emotional sensitivity. It helps that I love both actors, but beyond the smiles this relationship colors in between the the action, we get some wild, inspired, tirelessly explosive setpieces that feel as if they're the result of a continuous 12-year thinktank of creative ideas floating around from a team trying to crack the code of how to one-up the third entry. In many ways I probably love Die Hard with a Vengeance the most out of the series so that's high praise, although this film returns to the absurdist roots and doesn't attempt to shield its self-awareness at all, unlike the first three. Live Free or Die Hard embraces McClane's immortal Bond-ness, acknowledging his function by juxtaposing the character with inexperienced 'real' Gen Ys, which renders his presence a cartoon that bleeds into his surroundings to inflame lunacy on his level. Plus on top of all that, the film still finds time to stick it to the rising NSA/hacker fear with old-fashioned DIY agency. Of all the Die Hards, this is the one where I'm least invested in the dramatic payoffs, since Olyphant's villain is a silly joke next to the earlier ones, but that surrender of any ounce of self-seriousness aids our ability to purely enjoy the ride in the present moment, attention undivided.

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#87 Post by colinr0380 » Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:45 pm

I quite like Die Hard 4.0 (as it is known in the UK) too. It's no Die Hard of course (no Die Hard film has ever re-captured the intense, locked down and claustrophobic, yet with lots of different environments to run around in all the same, atmosphere of that film) but I would bracket it in with the second and third films. The overarching plot is totally absurd but its about all the little character moments that whilst sidelined at least never really get entirely overwhelmed during all the setpieces (OK, I guess the truck versus fighter jet sequence forgets about characters for a while!).

Although I do feel that it did not exactly need to be a Die Hard film. Bruce Willis could (and perhaps should) have been playing any other named character than John McClane, because playing that character does not feel that it particularly adds anything extra to the overall John McClane story arc (though I felt much the same way about ...With A Vengeance as well). There is only really a similar element in that he is in the process of becoming estranged from his children as much as from his ex-wife, and gets to reconnect with at least his daughter through learning about 'the resilience of young people of today and how their newfangled technology can have positive traits as well as negative ones' through Justin Long's character (And hey, dad inadvertently finds and vets throughout the course of the movie a boyfriend for the daughter that he actually vaguely approves of by the end of the film! So that's good, I suppose! Though of course the daughter is strong and independent to act for herself throughout and make her own choices, just that in this one area they may happen to coincide with dad's! Or perhaps dad and daughter, seemingly being similar in temperament, like that Justin Long is so wimpy and easy to push around that they end up feeling protective of him taking damage on their behalf?)

Its kind of a film out to 'humanise' the technology obsessed youths by having the gruff old school cop start out thinking of them as just a feckless pain in the backside before then begrudgingly coming to accept them, and then they become an effective team at the end. Its the same kind of set up that John Wayne would have with various upstart young bucks (young hot heads and/or females), or Clint Eastwood with rookie know-it-all partners (young hot heads and/or females), just updated to "cyber" stuff. In that sense the overall crime plot doesn't matter, and neither does the techno-babble have to particularly make sense either. Because it does not matter why the bad guy is grumpy or whether he is able to do the stuff that he threatens to do but that in countering the threat our heroes learn to respect each other and learn that each have qualities that the other admires (though it is a little bit one way where McClane is probably right to be suspicious of all of this technology playing havoc with the world in a 'dad cannot learn how his phone works' kind of way whilst the Justin Long character pretty much instantly looks up to this figure barging his way into his life, as an action hero in the real rather than virtual world. It does feel it leans a bit one way especially compared to the back and forth between Willis and Samuel L Jackson in the previous film which was a bit more on a level playing field, though there was a bit of odd couple banter there too)

Although on that note I still remember someone posting this Penny Arcade strip on the forum back when the film was released:
Image
That might have inadvertently gotten to why Die Hard 4.0 is not as good as Die Hard, because that was character and action working together, with a twist to the villain's plans that was pretty entertaining and made sense in the moment, whilst in this fourth installment the villain is a bit milquetoast (a bit like the Phillip Seymour Hoffman character in Mission: Impossible III at around the same time) and the action is mostly relegated to set piece spectacle that could go on for a few seconds or minutes before we actually get back to moving the plot along once the particular hench-person has been dealt with (the most telling part of the film to me is the shoehorning in of one character to just show off a bit of the currently in fashion parkour moves! Though I suppose he does get an ironic comeuppance for too swiftly bounding around the place!)

But I do like the film despite it being rather tried and tested. Though I do find the Kevin Smith character hits home a bit too close for comfort!

(I have tried to watch A Good Day To Die Hard a few times but have found it rather impossible to get through so far)
Last edited by colinr0380 on Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#88 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:23 pm

All good points, particularly that this doesn't need to be a Die Hard film, since McClane's realist edge is washed away completely - though in a sense it's fitting in following the trend of sequels that 'do something different' by self-reflexively exploiting the contrivances of genre without apology. I can't cite optimal examples off the top of my head, but Ocean's Twelve is vaguely in that vein, baring its constructions fully and having fun doing so instead of just playing the part as both gratifying and serious shades- however the Soderbergh is more interested in demonstrating that through multi-faceted array of ideas, while the Wiseman sticks to mostly one and executes it perfectly into a prism of possibilities in action that stem from an acceptance of the action genre's simplified rulebook.

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#89 Post by domino harvey » Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:31 pm

I know the third and fourth Die Hards were never intended to be entries in the series and the scripts were bought to form to the franchise. Not sure about the second one. The fifth was written to be a Die Hard and it remains the worst action movie I’ve ever seen in my life, so clearly the other route is preferable

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#90 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:37 pm

I recently bought the blu-ray set and am dreading a revisit of the fifth, but feel obligated since I remember absolutely nothing about it- just that I didn't like it at all

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#91 Post by domino harvey » Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:41 pm

This post is the sign you’re looking for, I give you permission to skip it

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#92 Post by knives » Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:50 pm

I’ll second that permit though I think we need Swo to notarize it.

If memory serves the second film was written as a Die Hard rip off before becoming the real deal. Even the first movie was supposed to be a sequel to some long forgotten Sinatra film.

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#93 Post by swo17 » Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:16 pm

I don't know how many times I have to say this but I am not a Die Hard notary

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#94 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:40 pm

Either the batteries from my remote must have disappeared or I was particularly lazy that day, but I did catch a few minutes of this on television for whatever reason. All I remember is that the girl who played his daughter looked incredibly like the child actor who did in the first one.

It's relatively minor compared to the issues elsewhere hampering them, but I cannot bear the idea of a Die Hard movie without Michael Kamen's music. That style of composing for action movies in the 90's and 00's became increasingly rare, going more the route laid down by Zimmer and the Media Ventures clones who copied his style down-pat. Same goes for any attempt at a Lethal Weapon sequel as well. Clapton and Sanborn are still around but at their advanced ages probably wouldn't go for participating at this stage.

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#95 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:29 pm

flyonthewall2983 wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:40 pm
All I remember is that the girl who played his daughter looked incredibly like the child actor who did in the first one.
That is Mary Elizabeth Winstead, who by being referred to as "the girl" reminds me of the injustice of her career trajectory. She should have become a star everyone knows by name.

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#96 Post by domino harvey » Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:44 pm

I mean, she did cheat on her husband to do a star everyone knows by name

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#97 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:45 pm

She was great on the third season of Fargo

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#98 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:04 pm

flyonthewall2983 wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:45 pm
She was great on the third season of Fargo
Yeah, I was hyped about her casting and she didn't disappoint, though I can't think of a better badass girl-in-danger perf than 10 Cloverfield Lane, which manages to finally allow a woman to make intelligent decisions in peril every step of the way in a believable fashion. Her best role is also the best perf of an alcoholic/addict on film in Smashed, which gets the mechanics of the mess and the message so right (especially the infiltration into worklife of a service provider for children) that I had to take a handful of breaks over the course of its 80-minute runtime my first watch to meditate.

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#99 Post by domino harvey » Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:07 pm

She was indeed very good in Smashed. She really needed to throw some money at a campaign for that one, I couldn't figure out how she wasn't able to turn that into more Awards discussion

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Re: Live Free or Die Hard (Len Wiseman, 2007)

#100 Post by Monterey Jack » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:44 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:29 pm

That is Mary Elizabeth Winstead, who by being referred to as "the girl" reminds me of the injustice of her career trajectory. She should have become a star everyone knows by name.
I've been smitten with Winstead since the '07 twofer of Life Free Or Die Hard and Death Proof. A gorgeous, charming and talented actress who would have become a major star had she been around a decade earlier (before franchises took over Hollywood). She sparkles in Scott Pilgrim.

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