218 Ishtar [release cancelled]

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hearthesilence
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
Location: NYC

Re: 218 Ishtar

#76 Post by hearthesilence » Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:06 am

MichaelB wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:49 am
Ribs wrote:The exact same conversation is available on the Indicator release of The Fortune :).
...which was put together before we knew we’d be handling Ishtar. Had we known at the time, we’d have saved it exclusively for Ishtar, but since it’s overwhelmingly about Ishtar it seemed perverse not to include it.

See also the duplication across The Criminal Code and Convicted (in Columbia Noir #3) of a featurette comparing the two (they were based on the same stage play). There was no particular reason for favouring one over the other, and no reason to assume that purchasers of one would also buy the other, so including it on both made sense.

This sort of thing is very rare - in fact, I can’t think of another example in the Indicator catalogue - but in those two cases it’s clearly justifiable.
That's reasonable to me. I doubt there's a better video out there - May and Nichols together rarely did public discussions like this after 1987, and I doubt any others were primarily about Ishtar, especially with the Iraq War as the context for it. What's the alternative, not including it and leaving more empty space on the disc?

Calvin
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:12 am

Re: 218 Ishtar

#77 Post by Calvin » Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:19 pm

A 20-minute interview with Dustin Hoffman and Warren Beatty from 1987

I would guess that this wasn't the only interview they gave at the time but it's certainly the first recorded one that I've came across.

nitin
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:49 am

Re: 218 Ishtar

#78 Post by nitin » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:09 pm

Major plus points for the Ayoade extra and the Jessica Kiang (one of the best current critics IMHO) :)

allyouzombies
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 2:34 pm

Re: 218 Ishtar

#79 Post by allyouzombies » Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:05 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:56 am
Now available to preorder:
ISHTAR
(Elaine May, 1987)
Release date: 19 July 2021
Limited Edition Blu-ray (UK Blu-ray premiere)


Once the byword for expensive Hollywood failure, Ishtar is slowly – and rightfully – becoming recognised as one of the unsung greats of eighties' American cinema. In a nod to Bob Hope and Bing Crosby Road to… movies, Warren Beatty (Mickey One) and Dustin Hoffman (Straw Dogs) star as brilliantly awful songwriters who find themselves mixed up in Cold War shenanigans whilst in Morocco. Another comedy gem from Elaine May’s sadly small, but utterly perfect directorial career.


INDICATOR LIMITED EDITION BLU-RAY SPECIAL FEATURES

• 2K restoration
• Two presentations of the film: the 1987 Theatrical Cut (107 mins) and the 2013 Director’s Cut (105 mins)
• Original mono soundtrack
• Optional 5.1 surround sound
• Audio commentary with ReFocus: The Films of Elaine May editors Dean Brandum and Alexandra Heller-Nicholas (2021)
Elaine May and Mike Nichols in Conversation (2006): archival video recording of the two friends and collaborators discussing their careers following a retrospective screening of Ishtar at New York’s Walter Reade Theater
• New interview with songwriter Paul Williams (2021)
• New appreciation with actor, comedian and filmmaker Richard Ayoade (2021)
Waiting for Ishtar (2017): Jonathan Crombie and John Mitchell’s charming documentary, featuring interviews with Williams, actors Charles Grodin and Carol Kane, journalists Peter Biskind and David Blum, film critic J Hoberman, and others
• Original theatrical trailer
• Image gallery: promotional and publicity material
• New and improved English subtitles for the deaf and hard-of-hearing
• Limited edition exclusive booklet with a new essay by Jessica Kiang, archival articles and interviews, an overview of contemporary critical responses, and film credits
• UK premiere on Blu-ray
• Limited edition of 3,000 copies
• MORE EXTRAS TO BE ANNOUNCED
• Extras subject to change

#PHILTD218
BBFC cert: 15
REGION B
EAN: 5060697921045
Amazing news. And I love that Indicator always goes the extra mile with bonus features.

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criterionsnob
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Re: 218 Ishtar

#80 Post by criterionsnob » Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:49 pm


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soundchaser
Leave Her to Beaver
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:32 am

Re: 218 Ishtar

#81 Post by soundchaser » Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:50 pm

FUCK

This film is never going to get the treatment it deserves, and those special features are going to be stuck in limbo...forever? I know in the grand scheme of the world this is very small, but it feels awful.

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Red Screamer
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:34 pm
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Re: 218 Ishtar

#82 Post by Red Screamer » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:02 pm

Boo laws

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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: 218 Ishtar

#83 Post by knives » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:03 pm

The law is a crime.

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PfR73
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:07 pm

Re: 218 Ishtar

#84 Post by PfR73 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:04 pm

I just don't understand. It's not like the film hasn't been released on Blu-ray before. How could there suddenly be legal issues necessitating cancelling the entire release?

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soundchaser
Leave Her to Beaver
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Re: 218 Ishtar

#85 Post by soundchaser » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:04 pm

I wonder if it would be feasible (or even legal?) for Indicator to put the extras up for sale as a download. I’m sure this is grasping at straws, but I’m still in the denial stage of grief.

EDIT: Maybe this is bargaining. I’m not a psychologist.
Last edited by soundchaser on Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Calvin
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:12 am

Re: 218 Ishtar

#86 Post by Calvin » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:19 pm

Bitterly disappointing.
PfR73 wrote:I just don't understand. It's not like the film hasn't been released on Blu-ray before. How could there suddenly be legal issues necessitating cancelling the entire release?
Their statement says that they were unwilling to release a compromised edition, which suggests that they could have released the film in some fashion.

I wonder if it would have had to be a barebones release of the director's cut - we know that can at least be released that way, as it has been in the US.

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Ribs
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Re: 218 Ishtar

#87 Post by Ribs » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:38 pm

I guess it’s true what they say - telling the truth is serious business.

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rapta
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:04 pm
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Re: 218 Ishtar

#88 Post by rapta » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:46 pm

Calvin wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:19 pm
Bitterly disappointing.
PfR73 wrote:I just don't understand. It's not like the film hasn't been released on Blu-ray before. How could there suddenly be legal issues necessitating cancelling the entire release?
Their statement says that they were unwilling to release a compromised edition, which suggests that they could have released the film in some fashion.

I wonder if it would have had to be a barebones release of the director's cut - we know that can at least be released that way, as it has been in the US.
If that were the case, they could still announce it later on as a barebones release (still with booklet potentially). If I remember correctly this happened to Second Sight with their release of Thunderbolt & Lightfoot, and also Eureka with their release of Fellini Satyricon. I suppose that's not what Indicator do though, so perhaps they decided barebones was not their mission statement and they couldn't release a title as such in good conscience. That being said they have done 'supermarket editions' of a few titles to date released under the Powerhouse name but not the Indicator label (Christine, 10 Rillington Place, Vampires/Ghosts of Mars).

I don't know what an alternative could be. Sony porting theirs to the UK? Or another UK label picking up the pieces and releasing it anyway (would Eureka or Arrow be willing to do that, or would they view the whole situation as 'damaged goods' to put it bluntly?).

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Ribs
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Re: 218 Ishtar

#89 Post by Ribs » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:53 pm

I don’t imagine any of the labels are in such bad spirits to get someone else’s release cancelled at the eleventh hour (and, regsrdless, I’d imagine Criterion the most likely alternative home). I would much, much rather Indicator release the disc with absolutely no features beyond a well encoded version of the restoration then not at all and am somewhat shocked if that option was available and not pursued.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: 218 Ishtar

#90 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:45 pm

I'll be curious if MichaelB is able to weigh in at all, though I'm sure that'll come with its understandable limitations. This seems like a major flub, or else reflects some very unstable facets of the industry that makes me much less confidant about California Split ever materializing. I don't know why Indicator wouldn't be able to release a film they announced over a year before 'officially' announcing it, but I'm very curious to hear more about the compromises that were dealbreakers for each side. I share the frustrations around this cancelation, but if the Altman is in jeopardy due to a) legal issues, b) Indicator's rigidity, or c) a combination of Indicator/powerhouse's inability/difficulty navigating these legal issues, then it'd be cool to know what those are and what, if anything, can be done about moving the goalposts. This is certainly not making me very optimistic about the security of planned releases, but I'm in the "anger"/hysterical stage of grief (pedantic note: the five stages of grief are not clinically sound and often disproven in modern texts, though if/when they do occur, there is no set linear order or completion of said stages- that's just not how grief operates nor how Kübler-Ross intended them to be interpreted).

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hearthesilence
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Re: 218 Ishtar

#91 Post by hearthesilence » Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:49 pm

Royally sucks, but I hope Indicator holds on to the pressing masters or whatever it is that produces the actual discs, just in case something happens later on and a release is possible.

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soundchaser
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Re: 218 Ishtar

#92 Post by soundchaser » Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:51 pm

(Ha, yes, I knew they weren’t considered very sound these days, but they make a good reference point. And I’m sure I’ll cycle through them again at random tonight. :) )

I wish we could get a little more info about what exactly the sticking point was — with Sweet Charity we were slightly less in the dark. But I also understand that these things are, as demonstrated here, delicate.

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therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: 218 Ishtar

#93 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:55 pm

That was a quick jump to Acceptance! Elisabeth would be proud

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domino harvey
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Re: 218 Ishtar

#94 Post by domino harvey » Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:07 pm

Considering how Beatty neutered Criterion’s Shampoo release, I wouldn’t be surprised if he had something to do with whatever is happening here

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therewillbeblus
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Re: 218 Ishtar

#95 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:15 pm

Thank god everyone involved in California Split not only loves the film but loves talking about it

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Pavel
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Re: 218 Ishtar

#96 Post by Pavel » Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:55 am

Considering how close to the release the news hit (after all the problems involving studios and copyright had certainly been solved) and how they say they had the option to release a severely compromised version, the problem def seems to be with the special features, and if so Beatty is likely to blame. I love the guy, but fuck him

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mhofmann
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Re: 218 Ishtar

#97 Post by mhofmann » Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:26 am

domino harvey wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:07 pm
Considering how Beatty neutered Criterion’s Shampoo release, I wouldn’t be surprised if he had something to do with whatever is happening here
What happened there?

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colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
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Re: 218 Ishtar [release cancelled]

#98 Post by colinr0380 » Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:31 am

And whilst speculating it is interesting that Indicator released the Beatty-starring Mickey One (with no extras involving the actor), but maybe that just does not have the notoriety of Ishtar.

So this means a release of Bugsy is out of the question?

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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: 218 Ishtar

#99 Post by knives » Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:36 am

mhofmann wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:26 am
domino harvey wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:07 pm
Considering how Beatty neutered Criterion’s Shampoo release, I wouldn’t be surprised if he had something to do with whatever is happening here
What happened there?
Beatty kibboshed a few of the planned extras because they gave credit to people not named Warren for success of the film.
Last edited by knives on Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

Calvin
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:12 am

Re: 218 Ishtar [release cancelled]

#100 Post by Calvin » Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:39 am

I doubt Beatty has any influence over releases that he didn't produce and/or direct. See also how there were no issues putting extras on the Woody Allen-starring The Front.

I assume Elaine May also has some say over the release, as I remember the US Blu-Ray was recalled when it had the theatrical instead of the director's cut - but I'd be surprised if she was the reason behind this cancellation (I suspect if it came down to it, Indicator would have been willing to drop the theatrical cut if that was the only issue).

Interestingly, it seems this release got as far as check discs prior to cancellation

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