Vinegar Syndrome et al.

[dwk]

I believe Michael Worth mentioned it in a podcast a couple years back and last year a number of the titles streamed from Alamo Drafthouse's virtual theater.

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

Why isn't Trauma being sold by itself?

[dwk]

The discs will be available to order individually in November. This is just a flash sale to pre-order the Black Friday releases.

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

Ha, I forgot about the sale part of "flash sale" and how VS does bundles generally. I'll definitely pre-order Flesh - the prospect of it bundled with the Argento and mystery titles was very tempting tho!

[colinr0380]

To pre-order or not to pre-order, even though I really only want Flesh for Frankenstein? Are the others worth it?

I went for it; I can always sell the titles that aren’t to my taste. I’ve only ever seen Trauma in unsubtitled Italian, on its original release in its native country.

That sounds like it would be a rather strange experience, as it feels like Argento's most US-based movie! Not least with all of the American actors (Brad Dourif, Piper Laurie) in supporting roles!

I'm probably going to wait until the title pops up for 'normal' release through normal channels, but I'm quite excited at the prospect of replacing my heavily BBFC-edited (I seem to remember they really did not like all of the razor wire beheadings going on therein) VHS tape of Trauma. Also based on our discussion of James Wan's recently released Malignant a little while back, if he was influenced by Argento at all it might show through in the premise of Trauma of a botched medical procedure leading to all the doctors and nurses involved being targeted for retribution decades later.

(There is also that bizarre coincidence(?) that Trauma and Carlito's Way, both released the same year, have strangely similar end credit scenes!)

[denti alligator]

To pre-order or not to pre-order, even though I really only want Flesh for Frankenstein? Are the others worth it?

I went for it; I can always sell the titles that aren’t to my taste. I’ve only ever seen Trauma in unsubtitled Italian, on its original release in its native country.

After seeing the price of the FfF standalone I took the plunge. You’re right, I can probably make back most of the money selling these later.

[M Sanderson]

Any news of the transfer for Trauma?

A few years ago there was a terrible Blu ray from Europe, badly encoded and extremely unstable.

Hoping for something definitive by VS.

[Nw_jahrles]

Any news of the transfer for Trauma?

A few years ago there was a terrible Blu ray from Europe, badly encoded and extremely unstable.

Hoping for something definitive by VS.

I imagine it will be a definitive transfer. Vinegar Syndrome might be the only label that does there own scans of every title. So I’d be shocked if they were using an old master.

[dwk]

VS no longer does all their own scans and the listing does not mention a new scan for Trauma.

[Thornycroft]

They will use other labs for scanning if they don't have access to the materials themselves (usually necessary for international acquisitions and cases where the rightsholder insists on using a particular lab) but I don't recall them ever using an older master for a release. I don't believe they've ever put out a release that they didn't colour correct and restore from a raw scan but I'm happy to be corrected.

[dwk]

I know they had nothing to do with the master for Rad.

[L.A.]

Tough Guys Don’t Dance @ Beaver

[yoloswegmaster]

October 2021:

Ticks 4K UHD
The Laughing Dead
Camille Keaton in Italy boxset (Madeline, Sex of the Witch, and Tragic Ceremony)
Nothing Underneath / Too Beautiful to Die
The Grave

[EddieLarkin]

Lots of Italian titles which is great, but it's disappointing to see that while Nothing Underneath and Too Beautiful to Die carry their Italian dubs, VS aren't bothering to offer translated subtitles for them. I know that English is the default option for the average English speaking Italian exploitation cinema fan, but there are so many of these films that play much better with their Italian dubs.

[dwk]

Not including English subtitles is inexcusably cheap/lazy.

On that note, I recall a number of people complaining about how bad the subtitles in the Forgotten Gialli Vol 2 set are. So, maybe VS ought to spend less time/money on slipcovers and fancy packaging and more time/money on subtitling.

[domino harvey]

Not including English subtitles is inexcusably cheap/lazy.

On that note, I recall a number of people complaining about how bad the subtitles in the Forgotten Gialli Vol 2 set are. So, maybe VS ought to spend less time/money on slipcovers and fancy packaging and more time/money on subtitling.

I mean, it just seems to highlight that the label is often selling the idea of the movies they release over anything else. They have a very good art department and smart marketing, but I can count on one hand the number of mediocre or better movies they’ve released, and with stuff like this, they aren’t even bothering to offer a baseline minimum of effort for those who do want these films

[Glowingwabbit]

Not including English subtitles is inexcusably cheap/lazy.

On that note, I recall a number of people complaining about how bad the subtitles in the Forgotten Gialli Vol 2 set are. So, maybe VS ought to spend less time/money on slipcovers and fancy packaging and more time/money on subtitling.

It's definitely too bad since even on back channels you can't find a copy with the Italian audio that also has English subs

But to be fair the Italian Audio is being treated as a special feature as they are emphasizing the English version in the press release.

Vinegar Syndrome proudly presents both NOTHING UNDERNEATH and TOO BEAUTIFUL TO DIE on English language Blu-ray the first time[....]

Both films presented in their original English language soundtrack along with an optional Italian dub track (untranslated)

[agnamaracs]

New partner label titles:
Boardinghouse (AGFA/Bleeding Skull)
Death of Nintendo (Altered Innocence)
Knife + Heart (Altered Innocence)
The Last Matinee (Dark Star)
Shatter Dead (Saturn's Core)
Shit and Champagne (Utopia)
Summer of 84 (Gunpowder and Sky; 4K)

According to my notes "Knife + Heart" and "The Last Matinee" were already released before their respective labels were VS partners (Dark Star is newly signed on).

[Glowingwabbit]

According to my notes "Knife + Heart" and "The Last Matinee" were already released before their respective labels were VS partners (Dark Star is newly signed on).

You might be think of Arrow Video putting out "The Last Matinee" in the UK (Dark Star is a film distribution company). "Knife + Heart" is just getting a slipcover added. Altered Innocence puts out some great titles but they have an annoying habit of rereleasing their titles with a slipcover and unlike VS they won't just sell the slipcover for folks that already bought the blu-ray. Luckily the slipcover looks awful imo,

[EddieLarkin]

It's definitely too bad since even on back channels you can't find a copy with the Italian audio that also has English subs

But to be fair the Italian Audio is being treated as a special feature as they are emphasizing the English version in the press release.

I'm sure that's the exact reason they aren't offering any here: none exist. Which means hiring a translator and making a new set, which yes I'm sure is expensive but it's only what every other cult label would do in this scenario (well except maybe Severin, who pulled this exact bullshit with Devil Hunter, a film that has an horrendously crap English dub, which no one in their right mind would want to listen to over the native Spanish version).

And unless these two films were shot in English with live sound (which hey they may have, but I seriously doubt it), it's really not for VS to be calling the English tracks the "original" ones and treating the Italian tracks as mere extras.

[Adam X]

Before this becomes more of a VS pile-on than it already is, it should really be noted that while it’s really disappointing they’re not including english subs, they’re far from the first to do this. Labels like Code Red, Severin & Blue Underground (?), have a history of not releasing Italian/Spanish films with their native soundtrack or including it without (proper) english subtitles. Things’ve been getting better in recent years, though with this & Severin’s The Fourth Victim, it’s sometimes hard to be sure.

As EddieLarkin noted, many seem to be fine with an english dub for foreign genre films, though for the life of me I cannot understand why. It feels like the history of these films only being available dubbed for the longest time in “the west”, has lead to labels taking advantage of low expectations and the seeming belief by many that this is the best way to watch them.

Personally I think if you’re going to release a film from a non-english speaking country, the default minimum should be the native soundtrack and translated subtitles. Using the excuse that these films were typically dubbed in various languages for export just seems lazy at worst, and disrespectful of the filmmakers at best.

[EddieLarkin]

It's one thing to release these films without their Italian tracks (which VS are doing with another title this month, Madeleine), as the track simply may not be available from the licensor, or at all. But to include the Italian tracks and not bother to offer any subtitles for them is lowest common denominator bullshit and I can't think of any decent excuse.

[Adam X]

Yep, which is why I brought up The Fourth Victim. It’s an Italian-Spanish co-production by a Spanish director, and Severin included english & italian soundtracks with english SDH subs ( for the english track) only.

I’m fine when it’s an issue with rights or available elements, but I’d rather a simple plastic case & no extras if it’s a choice between bling and translated subtitles.

[colinr0380]

I seem to remember back in the early 2000s Anchor Bay would do the same thing of including a non-subtitled Italian language track with their films (Deep Red and Tenebrae come to mind, along with a number of their Lucio Fulci releases. That's why it was so good to get the Arrow versions of many of these films a decade and a half later on, which often went the extra mile in providing the subtitles to make the Italian track viable to an English-speaking audience). I wonder how much of it is how expensive it would be to subtitle an entire film and how much that might eat into the margins versus how many people would be watching the film in that version anyway, given that even the Italian soundtrack would be post-dubbed. Or could there be something contractual about being able to release the Italian soundtrack so long as it does not get subtitled?

Either way in a perfect world we would get a subtitled Italian track as well and be able to choose either that or the English language version with the knowledge that both are often as legitimate as each other in the world of Italian genre cinema.

[Glowingwabbit]

Either way in a perfect world we would get a subtitled Italian track as well and be able to choose either that or the English language version with the knowledge that both are often as legitimate as each other in the world of Italian genre cinema.

Absolutely. And for a lot Italian cinema I usually prefer the English track only if the lead speaks English (there are exceptions) but I always give both tracks a try. It is very odd that they would even bothered to include the Italian tracks just to leave them untranslated. It's possible it was contractual thing to include and they made a budgetary decision to not have them translated (I assume it's an expensive and time consuming task) given the titles involved.

I haven't seen the sequel (I've just heard it's worse), but the first one is definitely a trash Giallo film (but I'm fond of it) that I'm not sure I'd sit through if I had to read subtitles (and I'm not someone who has issues with subtitles). If it was between extra supplements or translating Italian Audio for two films like these, I'd definitely go with the extra supplements. I'll give the Italian track a go because I've seen the film and understanding the dialogue won't matter make a difference.

But I will say listening to Donald Pleasance fail horribly at an Italian accent is part of the charm of the film for me (and I know I've heard other fans of the film mention this too).