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looks like they struck a nice balance between the old version and the SC....so excited to see this!

By this point it's coming down to a matter of taste (if not the region one is in). I prefer the Optimum, as the greater bluishness seems to fit the wintry feel of the film. I think I recall the later UN FLIC being even bluer.

reaky wrote: I think I recall the later UN FLIC being even bluer.

Well, yeah. And if you look at Le Samourai again, you'll see a blu-ish tendency in a lot of its scenes. Army of Shadows likewise. That's the way Melville apparently shot his color films.

Jack Phillips wrote:

reaky wrote: I think I recall the later UN FLIC being even bluer.

Well, yeah. And if you look at Le Samourai again, you'll see a blu-ish tendency in a lot of its scenes. Army of Shadows likewise. That's the way Melville apparently shot his color films.

And then, you look at the theatrical trailer for Un flic and find out it's not.

Same applies for Army of Shadows's trailer (at least on the BFI DVD) - you can see the pill in Jean Francois' bloodied hand and Gerbier in the restaurant swallowing paper. In the trailer, it's normal colour; but in the film, there's a blue/grey tinge.

What happened? Did the BFI Army of Shadows release go out of print, because I don't see it listed on the BFI website.

Yes, it went out of print and was reissued by Optimum/Studio Canal.

When Criterion released Pialat's L'Enfance-Nue in what appeared to be strange colors, far less pleasing than the MoC edition, a mjority of this forum readers showed a clear preference for the MoC version. Their views were not much altered when Criterion posted a justification for their choice as being closer to the "original intent". The argument is reversed when it comes to Le Cercle Rouge. Many have argued that they prefer the Sudio Canal version because it is closer to what they recall being Melville's intent. If no such information was brought into play, and the two versions were strictly evaluated based on which one seems to have a "better" image today (however an individual chooses to define that), I doubt if many would prefer the Sudio Canal image (my judgment - could be wrong). What I am bringing to attention here is more the consistency of criteria when evaluating competing versions than which one should be considered superior.

Not really, because lots of people have seen original prints of L'Enfance-Nue and regard Criterion's justification as crazy-in-the-coconut crazy (even the tattered, yellowed-with-age print I've seen was nowhere near as yellow as that). More than that Criterion's L'Enfance-Nue looks nothing like a film shot on Eastmancolor (MOC and the Gaumont's vivid red and blue look exactly like Eastmancolor) nor any other Pialat film. So it not a case of disregarding original intent, it is a case of disregarding Criterion's claim of recreating original intent.

On the other hand Studio Canal's Le Cercle Rouge steely blue bias is completely consistent with Melville's other films while Criterion's is merely consistent with reality.

Sorry to bump the thread, but I was just watching the Blu-ray of this and it stopped playing at 1h51m. Just wondering if anybody else is having this problem? I'm guessing that Criterion wouldn't replace a disc this long OOP if it isn't a widespread issue...

I think you may be in luck actually! I bought a brand new disc earlier this year and it stopped at that exact moment. I emailed Mulvaney, and ended up having to send in just the disc along with a description of how to reproduce it and a list of the players I tried to play it in. A few weeks later I got the disc back and it works perfectly, despite its OOP status. I was really impressed with the experience.

There are so many great ones, but this may be my favorite Melville film. Even more than his other work, its deliberate pace of finding tension in the banalities of immaculate attention to detail reflects a pleasurable patience in developing characters through their own patient mannerisms and slow movements though sterile spaces. It's a film about betrayal- but not the unexpected conventional definition, instead following the logos that betrayal is inherent in the intelligent man's worldview. We expect betrayal from others, and choose to what degree we betray ourselves, under the umbrella of fatalistic betrayal from the cosmos. The meaning of life is a paradox, where we must try to escape that betrayal of and from the self for as long as we can, while acknowledging the inevitability of our mortality when contending with a betraying milieu. Though if we accept this lens, we can have a hell of a lot of fun amidst this overcast glare of existentialist truth, finding meaning in the socially-constructed codes of conduct that guide us together for our ephemeral time on this earth; or in our solitary skill sets and abilities to contend with the world; or in the superficial highs, be them monetary excess or in the freedom of smoking cigarettes (the early meeting between two men after prison is so intimate in their nonverbal exchange over this commonality, even if both men are coldly isolating against the other- a beautiful harmony found in dispassionate exteriors). This devolving of significance to palpable simple pleasures and safe outlets to form self-authenticated moral fiber is born from a singular rule of self-preservation, as defined by preserving one's life but also their sense of philosophical loyalty. This may be read as objectively tragic in its implications of the social current's inescapable conclusive vacuum, but is subjectively enthralling in the possibilities to appreciate of agency in the present. These men find solace in a common language of honor among thieves- a mutually beneficial system of trust where we can escape betrayal through a social contract that provides temporary safety to arouse momentary empowerment.

Combo pack only, why? Are they running out of single clamshell cases or something?

why didn't they do new cover art? that is one of their worst covers. I'm not even joking here but they should have done a new cover that's just a screenshot of the overhead pool table shot that would indicate whatever color grading it will be on the disc.

black&huge wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:33 pm why didn't they do new cover art? that is one of their worst covers. I'm not even joking here but they should have done a new cover that's just a screenshot of the overhead pool table shot that would indicate whatever color grading it will be on the disc.

Because it’s a “back in print” not an upgrade from the previous release. Only difference is the 4K disc with the 4K restoration. The bluray might be the exact same disc as before with the old master.
But I’ve definitely seen much worse covers.

Kracker wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:22 pm Combo pack only, why? Are they running out of single clamshell cases or something?

I imagine it's because the vast majority of people they assume would want the film on DVD or BD already had their chance during the time it was in print from Criterion on those formats.

black&huge wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:33 pm why didn't they do new cover art? that is one of their worst covers. I'm not even joking here but they should have done a new cover that's just a screenshot of the overhead pool table shot that would indicate whatever color grading it will be on the disc.

Because it’s by Art Chantry and one of the VERY BEST covers in the entire collection. Would be a crime greater than the film’s heist to change it.

captveg wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:04 pmI imagine it's because the vast majority of people they assume would want the film on DVD or BD already had their chance during the time it was in print from Criterion on those formats.

I wince every time I hear some version of this argument, because it just makes me think of the 100s of titles that I'd perfectly well like to own but for whatever reason don't.

I would say instead that the "vast majority of people" do not own close to everything that they'd like to.

At any rate, this logic dictates that the vast majority of people that wants any disc on the market has already bought it ... might as well pull them all off the shelves.

There's still the option to buy the new release which includes the BD if one is not UHD capable. It's really only the DVD-only crowd that is out of luck on this reissue, which is also the case for most of the other announced releases of 2022 so far.

captveg wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:42 pm There's still the option to buy the new release which includes the BD if one is not UHD capable. It's really only the DVD-only crowd that is out of luck on this reissue, which is also the case for most of the other announced releases of 2022 so far.

Yeah, but there's something obnoxious about paying the higher price point to have a UHD disc one has no intention of using, especially since Criterion is still clearly offering this alternative with other UHD titles. I wonder if they'll add a blu-only option on the page soon, or what kind of rationale will be included in the script for all the angry emails getting sent to Mulvaney as we speak

They could just give those handful of customers a $5 store credit and encourage them to order the UHD/BD combo in the half off sale, thereby neutralizing the price difference for those specific customers without incurring the larger production costs of reissuing the BD only version.

For what I'm sure is a variety of reasons Criterion is managing their disc production more strictly now. This includes not doing DVDs for titles new to the collection that had mass market DVD releases by other studios/labels, such as with The Flight of the Phoenix. That will create some conflict with a certain minority of customers, but many other labels have done the same thing for years now.

OR they could just put some of their Blu-ray discs in single clamshells for customers so they arent pressing these expensive UHD discs that will never be used. Even if it's for a handful of customers. They should have let the demand speak for if they should continue the bluray only option. I was excited that this was finally going back in print because i missed it way back then but im not buying that combo pack.

Btw the fact that you have the movie and extras all on one disc, makes bluray remain their most convenient form factor.

On release day, for Menace II Society and Uncut Gems, it was about 8-10 copies of the UHD set to 2 copies of the blu-ray set at the one B&N store I shopped at. B&N at least really seems to be pushing the more expensive option. Perhaps Criterion is too. I'm fine with my OOP BD, at least until it rots that is (probably should check it again).