criterionforum.org

n. w. wrote: So maybe I am talking rubbish.

It's a real possibility. ;~}

The Ozu film is one of his most important. The Bunuel film is one of his most important. I'll leave it to others to comment on the importance of the Welles, etc.

I was actually very excited about last year's 3 underdog releases of F FOR FAKE, HEAVEN CAN WAIT, and TOUT VA BIEN/LETTER TO JANE, all of which were announced by this time last year. This year I'm just as excited about A NOS AMOURS, ELEVATOR TO THE GALLOWS, and VIRIDIANA.

The problem lies that last year I was not as much of a cinephile as I am now. There were few directors that I really loved and now there are plenty. I don't think Criterion is doing anything different, I think that I personally have become more demanding.

Michael Kerpan wrote:The Ozu film is one of his most important. The Bunuel film is one of his most important. I'll leave it to others to comment on the importance of the Welles, etc.

So you think that Late Spring and Viridana have the same level of recognition to the average cc punter as 8 1/2, Grand Illusion, Seven Samurai, Seventh Seal?

Fair enough, but bearing in mind the rumour (that was considered credible at the time) that there was no Ozu in 2005 due to poor sales of his previous releases, in the case of Late Spring, I respectfully disagree.

n. w. wrote:So you think that Late Spring and Viridana have the same level of recognition to the average cc punter as 8 1/2, Grand Illusion, Seven Samurai, Seventh Seal?

As much as L'Eclisse and Kagemusha, I'm willing to bet.

-Toilet Dcuk

toiletduck! wrote:As much as L'Eclisse and Kagemusha, I'm willing to bet.

At least. I think the Ozu delay has more to do with the problematic raw materials Ctiterion has to work with than "poor sales". Shochiku (as Ozu's own longtime company) HAD to get a comple DVD set out in time for Ozu's 100th birthday -- and they did a good job, given the constraints they had to work with.

Criterion is under no such compulsion -- and I presume they don't want to be walloped for "bad transfers" -- even if they make as good a release as possible from flawed elements. They are being hyper-cautious -- because they have customers who are hyper-picky. ;~}

Good Ozu releases will pay off in steady earnings over the course of many years. As much as I want to see more subbed Ozu available, I can't blame Criterion for not engaging in what they regard as "risky behavior".

I hope that their "Late Spring" release will prove worth the wait.

If movies by Ozu are not the big "money makers," then I wonder, who's are? Is VAGABOND or CLEO FROM 5 to 7? I do not recall hearing NANOOK OF THE NORTH or FIEND WITHOUT A FACE breaking any DVD records, nor did the minor Godards and A CONSTANT FORGE and LE TROU and TUNES OF GLORY etc etc etc.

If these films which are relatively obscure and un-marketable to audiences have gotten a chance at decent releases, why would Ozu, who has gained an absolutely larger following in United States through Criterion's releases, have less of a chance for further releases and costsly transfer processes. Furthermore, I'm not sure just how well the Pialat will sell, or Equinox (The latter, I am fairly certain, will be found much cheaper at many many used DVD stores across the country after people ACTUALLY watch it...). And yet these obscure pieces were given a chance at a run. Are they really expected to sell thousands of units or net considerable profits compared to Ozu films or Kobayashi or any other master director who is perceived as possessing zero to very limited mass appeal? If that is the case, then Mizoguchi, Eisenstein, Resnais and the rest of them have less of a chance at receiving the CC treatment. And that would suck.

Michael Kerpan wrote:

n. w. wrote: So maybe I am talking rubbish.

It's a real possibility.

The Ozu film is one of his most important. The Bunuel film is one of his most important. I'll leave it to others to comment on the importance of the Welles, etc.

I hope that their "Late Spring" release will prove worth the wait.

I'm sure it will, Michael. While Mr. Arkadin may not be one of Welles' most important films, I think that given the film's mysterious and checkered past and Welles' stature (or should I say heft?), I have a feeling that the Arkadin set will be an extraordinary one, and having read two advance comments from reliable sources, it might be voted one of the years best when the time comes for the CCF & MoC polls, that and Late Spring as well as Viridiana.

Thoughts on Tati.... I don't want to start a new thread for this, but something tells me that Criterion will wait to release PLAYTIME as a Blue-Ray title, sometime in 2006.

Considering prices for Blu-ray ain't going down anytime soon, it means we'll get Playtime in 2008 or 2010....

Christ I can't believe after a nice long rest this is the first topic I'm punching in on... nothing like an auto wreck to get the blood going.

Regardless of what the CC-defenders say (and I have mixed feelings on the subject... gonna give it a bit longer & let it shake out someway), the fact remains,

this thread constitues a form of concrete evidence which sort've proves itself by it's own existence. Despite moments where naysayers may be made to look funnier'na ape in blue spandex on rollerskates, they are dedicated CC-heads... and they are in sum not happy.

And that's somewhat new. Regardless of what it means, as a company they should keep their eardrums open with a drop of customer service humility during these oddball market times... oddball times where they cannot afford to say (goateed masculine midwestern voice spangled in couch-beer): Fuck what these douche bags say... we is always been trailblazers far ahead of everyone... we followed our instinct & now everyone imitates our biz model & extras & package design... we don't make mistakes god dammit... so we don't needta listen to no Mteropolitain-hatin, Kicking & Screaming-bustin, Equinox-despisin, pot of dickmilk!

The field is not what it used to be when they blazed their trail along w Kino in the mass market. There's a hell of a lot of comp out there today circling the waters if they get too loose w their biz model.

:-s After reading all this babble, I now have a headache. I will go back to my cave and watch La Strada.

PS- HerrSchreck, it wouldn't hurt to use periods and complete sentences to express your ideas. Your "eloquence" is completely lost in the ...

Matt, for the love of Christ, close this thread...it gets weirder and more bizarre by the second: "Criterion is bad 'cause they don't release more Ozu" or "Criterion is bad 'cause they're releasing Equinox" or "Criterion is bad 'cause they don't pay atention to what twenty people on this forum have to say" or "Criterion is bad 'cause they hold back a release" or "Criterion is bad 'cause they don't release Double Indemnity," ad nauseum.

The lucid posts by Ashirg, ben d banana, Gregory, Narshty, and a few other long-timers are just lost in the morass of childish nonsense.

Tribe

dx23 wrote:[:-s After reading all this babble, I now have a headache. I will go back to my cave and watch La Strada.

PS- HerrSchreck, it wouldn't hurt to use periods and complete sentences to express your ideas. Your "eloquence" is completely lost in the ...

FABulous argument. Since you're standing in the toilet anyhow do us all a favor & hit the little handle just in fronta you. You couldn't formulate a rational argument anyhow........................

How has their biz model changed? These are the types of films they've always released. It seems to me the people who are pissed are relatively new to them or at least began to know them late in the game, when it was harder for them to get rights to films like these.

None of these titles would have surprised me back in their early days because they fit what they stand for. Equinox might be a piece of shit, but I understand (from reading about it back when it was first rumoured they were releasing it) why they would release it and it's no different than why they release any of their other films.

Ah, fuck it.

I don't think that any studio would sit on a release and wait for HD. More likely, they would create the transfer and then release a DVD before releasing the HD version down the track when everyone has a DVD version already. However, they may want to sit on a few features to make the HD version more enticing (but not before releasing a bare-bones HD version first).

If studios really wanted to boost one format over the other, they could release a few really good movies in really good editions; this may force people to decide on one of the formats. (i.e. Releasing Blade Runner. With all versions. Please.)

HerrSchreck wrote:

dx23 wrote:[:-s After reading all this babble, I now have a headache. I will go back to my cave and watch La Strada.

PS- HerrSchreck, it wouldn't hurt to use periods and complete sentences to express your ideas. Your "eloquence" is completely lost in the ...

FABulous argument. Since you're standing in the toilet anyhow do us all a favor & hit the little handle just in fronta you. You couldn't formulate a rational argument anyhow.

Wow! You are angry little fellow, aren't you? I think that you fit better in the .com site, since you can take a little constructive criticism without being rude or obnoxious. Your arrogance and pompus attitude blinds you, HerrSchreck.

I completely agree with Tribe. Matt, close this thread please.

Listen guys. I'm not here to knock fuckin heads with anyone who's too cool to discuss this fuckin subject. All the pusbubbles who come in only to bitch & moan Oh I just can't take it anymore, o the thread it's torture and I THINK I'm GON-na DIE-- it's a little too much to take too serious, kay?

My above post consisted of me Taking A Look Around and going-- jesus. Folks is beating each other's brains in over the collection lately. (And the ones doing the beating aint just the dudes who aren't interested in D&C).

Let me tell you something even if I were pissed at CC (which I'm not): Me myself I've sunk thousands into CC between purchases & rentals. There's not many product lines around in the world where I spend that kind of money very regularly. It's the equivalent of SUBSCRIBING-- and every subscriber has the right to say their piece. What the hell do you think the organ of Mulvaney exists for? Why do you think the Becker's maintain such a strong line into their customer base with each release they do? Go call your phone company or you car lease company & listen to them tell you Go fuck yourself... see how quick you anaesthetize yourself to keep yourself from killing someone.

Myself I dont think CC is falling apart, I think folks like Landau who zap in just to curse & say BYE CC YOU STUPID PIECE OF SHIT are a little silly.

Biz model? Catering to teens is not something they did with much regularity in their dvd line, and doing that back-to-back-to-back, with the burping release schedule, has got folks jumpy. Walk around saying merely Shut the fuck up & leave my company alone couldn't even stroke a job plunging Becker's fuckin toilet.

dx23 wrote:Wow! You are angry little fellow, aren't you? I think that you fit better in the .com site, since you can take a little constructive criticism without being rude or obnoxious. Your arrogance and pompus attitude blinds you, HerrSchreck.

I completely agree with Tribe. Matt, close this thread please.

Gimme a break kid, okay? You asked for a zeek, you got it.

Serious question-- is that the glorious Ro-Man under your name? There goes my avatar...

Requests to close this thread?

Ok, NOW you have reasons to do so. I thought perhaps we could have a rational discussion on these points-- throw out some ideas, put our heads together-- but every third post (generous) puts the sound of two coconuts smacking together in my ears.

I think we could still wrap our brains around these issues if we could do it in a non-petulant fashion . There's no sense in getting hot over stuff like this. Its been brought up before that at least a few Criterion employees troll these boards. I think those in the "loyal" opposition could actually grab a few ears if they'd stop yelling obscenities into them. There has been some good discussion here. Ixnay on the apcray.

Let's duke it out.

Serious question-- is that the glorious Ro-Man under your name? There goes my avatar...

Nope, is a famous Mexican character named El Chapulin Colorado, which had its looks based on Ro-Man.

dx23 wrote:Nope, is a famous Mexican character named El Chapulin Colorado, which had its looks based on Ro-Man.

Ah! Sorry for going off topic - I've been watching The Simpsons Season 7 boxset and on the 32 Short Films About Springfield commentary it is mentioned that the Bumblebee Man is some sort of homage to El Chapulin Colorado! That's about all I know about it though!

Schkura wrote:I thought perhaps we could have a rational discussion on these points-- throw out some ideas, put our heads together-- but every third post (generous) puts the sound of two coconuts smacking together in my ears.

Noble idea. However, people on this tread are divided into two camps: the "old" movie's camp and the "new" movies camp. I highly doubt there will be any common ground because these two camps cannot agree on what the Criterion (pun intended) of cinema should be. While it would have been nice to have posts like "according to Andre Bazin's writings" or "Pauline Kael said," neither side (including myself) decided to debate like this.

It is funner to just throw mud at each other. Hey, that is how people get elected nowadays...

pzman84 wrote:Noble idea. However, people on this tread are divided into two camps: the "old" movie's camp and the "new" movies camp.

I'm sorry, maybe I'm mis-reading this, but what are you talking about? I see "old foreign" movie camp and "movie" camp, the latter being "old and new, foreign and domestic" I'm not saying, or have I ever said (or ever thought for that matter) that Criterion should only release "new" stuff. I'm all for more Ozu, and an intro to Naruse (the latter I've never seen a film by, but from reading on this forum and elsewhere I would join the picket lines with you, should they ever form, in front of the Criterion office protesting for them to release them), but I don't see how a newer film like Dazed and Confused (which is definitely one of the best films about being a kid in high school I've seen) should not be released by them, because it does fit their criteria.

But then maybe it's me. I may have missed the press release from Criterion, in the middle of their DVD stint, stating that all they were going to release from now on were older foreign films and nothing but from now on, after years of releasing great (or at least influential if not great), highly regarded films, old or new, foreign or domestic. Because Dazed and Confused and even Kicking and Screaming are the types of films they would have released when I first started buying their DVDs.

colinr0380 wrote:

dx23 wrote:Nope, is a famous Mexican character named El Chapulin Colorado, which had its looks based on Ro-Man.

Ah! Sorry for going off topic - I've been watching The Simpsons Season 7 boxset and on the 32 Short Films About Springfield commentary it is mentioned that the Bumblebee Man is some sort of homage to El Chapulin Colorado! That's about all I know about it though!

Yes, the Bumblebee Man is an homage to el Chapulin. El Chapulin, along with el Chavo del 8, were created and performed by Chespirito, a famous mexican actor/comedian. Both shows have been part of hispanic TV and culture since the 70s and it is a phenomenon that still going strong today.

I like jellybeans.