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Perkins Cobb wrote:Usually those old transfers with the windowboxed credits shift to the zoomed/pan & scanned 1.33 image with an abrupt cut, but I vaguely remember seeing a few where it's accomplished with a telecine zoom instead. Ridiculous; it's like, here's a couple of minutes of how this movie should look, and now here's a demo of how were going to fuck up the rest of it for you.

The worst example of that I can recall was a BBC2 airing of Once Upon a Time in the West about twenty years ago - correctly framed right up to the director's credit (which, if you remember, is several minutes in), and then the pan-and-scan machine was switched on. I nearly threw something at the screen before switching it off in disgust.

At the risk of sounding as though I've got far more grey hairs than I actually have, kids today really don't know how lucky they are. The first time I got a domestic copy of that film in full 2.35:1 was courtesy of a Belgian VHS tape circa 1992 - naturally in dubbed French, but that was a very small price to pay. And I had to actually purchase it in Brussels - we didn't have any of those internets to dial up.

At the risk of sounding as though I've got far more grey hairs than I actually have, kids today really don't know how lucky they are.

As long as you can avoid the phrase, "When I was your age ..."

Tribe wrote:I always thought 1.33:1 was Academy, until now...but you're right.

Actually you're right.

1.33:1 is Academy I
1.37:1 is Academy II

MichaelB wrote:

Perkins Cobb wrote:Usually those old transfers with the windowboxed credits shift to the zoomed/pan & scanned 1.33 image with an abrupt cut, but I vaguely remember seeing a few where it's accomplished with a telecine zoom instead. Ridiculous; it's like, here's a couple of minutes of how this movie should look, and now here's a demo of how were going to fuck up the rest of it for you.

The worst example of that I can recall was a BBC2 airing of Once Upon a Time in the West about twenty years ago - correctly framed right up to the director's credit (which, if you remember, is several minutes in), and then the pan-and-scan machine was switched on. I nearly threw something at the screen before switching it off in disgust.

I fondly remember those moments of watching widescreen credits and then watching in dismay as the electonic zoom widened the image up after they had ended, often futilely saying to the TV "Stop there! Stop! Go back!"

Perhaps the most frustrating thing the BBC ever did that I was witness to was showing Luc Besson's Leon for the first time in the Mark Cousins introduced season of Moviedrome, where he talked in loving detail about the director's cut and how much better it was, and the way the director used the ful widescreen frame to capture, for example, the final tracking explosion. Showing the shorter fullscreen version after that build up was a real slap in the face! (We may debate the merits of a Besson film at all but could perhaps all agree that it should receive a fair showing in order for them to be properly assessed!)

Tribe wrote:I just received The Quare Fellow today......the movie is supposed to have a 1.33:1 AR, but the credit sequences have a thick black border surrounding the film image, the resulting film image is clearly wider than it is taller. As soon as the credits end, the film image zooms in until it is displayed as I've traditionally seen a movie with 1.33:1 AR displayed on a widescreen tv set.

The film was shown recently on TCM in the U.S. with that same black border you describe during the opening credit sequence, window boxing an AR of 1:37!

Nice print, btw!

What A Disgrace wrote:Avant-Garde 3: Experimental Cinema 1922-1954 - Amazon preorder

Anyone have any clues what might be included on this one? It would be fantastic if they find a way to include something by Maya Deren, who is notably absent from the first two editions.

All of Maya Deren's (completed) experimental films are already available on this DVD.

No idea what will be in the set, of course, but the pure fact that it will come out and the years it covers seems to be a reason for pure joy. And somehow I can't help speculating that Peixoto's "Limite" will be in it.

If Limite were in the same box with better transfers of Maya Deren films, and some more Epstein films, would everybody be cool with calling it the release of the year?

Tommaso wrote:No idea what will be in the set, of course, but the pure fact that it will come out and the years it covers seems to be a reason for pure joy. And somehow I can't help speculating that Peixoto's "Limite" will be in it.

I hope you're right - this has been on my want list for years.

Yuo really will faint when you see how nice the recent restoration of it looks. Although I preferred the performances of the Satie Gymnopedies on the older version.

What A Disgrace wrote:If Limite were in the same box with better transfers of Maya Deren films, and some more Epstein films, would everybody be cool with calling it the release of the year?

But the first two volumes use transfers of Rohauer prints, which are notoriously not in great shape, generally having been dubbed on the cheap by Rohauer in decades past. if this one is also going to that source, then they will still probably be "less-than-optimal" transfers. that said, if they bring any more films (such as Epsteins) to DVD that don't currently exist there, it might still be a great (or at least very useful) set.

You're right, I totally forgot about that Rohauer connection when I wished for "Limite". A release of another version than the restored one would be pretty pointless. Okay, then I'll wish for more Kirsanoff

What A Disgrace wrote:If Limite were in the same box with better transfers of Maya Deren films, and some more Epstein films, would everybody be cool with calling it the release of the year?

You guys have short memories.

What's in that box that they're looking for here in this one?

Glad to see this has finally been announced.

I wrote the liner notes for this set a few months ago. A few things may have changed since then but the films on AG3 should be:

Danse Macabre (Dudley Murphy, 1922)
Rien Que Les Heures (Alberto Cavalcanti, 1926)
Tarantella (Mary Ellen Bute, 1940)
The Tell-Tale Heart (Charles Klein/Leon Shamroy, 1928)
Tomatos Another Day (James Sibley Watson, 1930)
The Uncomfortable Man (Theodore Huff, 1948)
Celery Stalks at Midnight (John Whitney, 1952)
Closed Vision (Marc'O, 1954)
Four in the Afternoon (James Broughton, 1951)
Image in the Snow (Willard Maas, 1952)
The Lead Shoes (Sidney Peterson, 1949)
Mort d'un cerf (Une chasse à courre; Death of a Stag: Dimitri Kirsanoff, 1951)
The Petrified Dog (Sidney Peterson, 1948)
Plague Summer (Chester Kessler, 1951)
The Voices (John E. Schmitz, 1953)
Schichlegruber Doing the Lambeth Walk (Charles A. Ridley, 1941)

Beyond the Avant-Garde (bonus films)
Falling Pink (Robert H. Spring, year unknown)
Story of a Gin Bottle (Rex Lease, 1925)
Dementia (excerpt) (John Parker 1955)

Most of these films are from the Rohauer collection and the transfers should be on par with the previous two volumes.

However the first six films listed are from the George Eastman House and all are new, HD transfers (i.e., different transfers from the Unseen Cinema box). In the case of Tomatos Another Day it includes the full film plus the outtakes (!) that were left out of Unseen Cinema.

Probably not quite what everyone expected but I think there's something in there for everyone.

As for Limite, isn't that film slated for Criterion via Scorsese's World Film Foundation?

--K. A. Westphal

Well, if you're looking for a two-disc avant garde set, it's hard to imagine Vol 3 of the Rohauer outdoing the Archives one in terms of film selection, print quality and supplementary materials.

Back on to the Kino, I've been looking around the internet for some vague idea of the Rohauer holdings in this area, but have come up blank. I know they had a good selection of early artists' films (Man Ray and the like). These were the hoary mainstays of many a film society screening and frankly don't excite me much, but I'm optimistic that the old 16mm print of Epstein's Mor'vran that I know and love was also a Rohauer escapee. Other than that, more American AG from the 40s and 50s would be great, plus more European filmmakers' films (e.g. Epstein and Kirsanov) rather than artists' films, please.

EDIT: I see my post has been gazumped by one that arrived in the meantime. Great news!

Now T H I S

Rien Que Les Heures (Alberto Cavalcanti, 1926),

plus a previously unseen Kirsanoff!

That Cavalcanti is major coup on their part. I have a DVDr from vhs and the film is absolutely sublime-- the set sounds like a grand slam. Probably tied with Ruttmanns BERLIN as my favorite city symphony. Utterly brilliant film. Bravo!

kawest wrote: Beyond the Avant-Garde (bonus films)
Dementia (excerpt) (John Parker 1955)

Really? What section is being showcased? I like Dementia and all but I'm surprised to see it on such a serious avant-garde set...

Why surprised? I think it fits like a glove? There is a do-it-yourself aesthetic and otherworldliness to the avant garde-- especially the American AG-- that Dementia perfectly typifies. And as Dementia was championed by none other than Herman G Weinberg himself, a knight of the AG, it makes perfect sense.

With dada, surrealism, and the (almost punk) aesthetic of American surrealism, I don't see what's so "serious" about the AG. Except for maybe it's French Impressionist incarnation alone.

Great great great! I've never seen the Cavalcanti, but I trust Schreck very much on this one; and glad I was right in hoping for more Kirsanoff. I'm also happy to see Mary Ellen Bute in this collection, I really like her later film on "Finnegans Wake" which surprisingly works very well given how unfilmable its source is. Hopefully Kino can unearth that one for a further set, too. Otherwise I would have hoped for a less US-centred collection, but I would suppose that the choice accurately reflects where the majority of the films in Rohauer's collection come from.

I remember Peterson's The Lead Shoes to be an absolute joy. It's like The Singing Street remade as a Surrealist horror film, shot through a distorted lens, and set in California's Bay area. I'm absolutely thrilled that this is going to be bundled with the Kirsanoff and the Cavalcanti!

*Ooops, just realized that The Lead Shoes actually predates The Singing Street by a few years.

HerrSchreck wrote:With dada, surrealism, and the (almost punk) aesthetic of American surrealism, I don't see what's so "serious" about the AG. Except for maybe it's French Impressionist incarnation alone.

This is absolutely true, and it's well worth noting that the British film avant-garde of the 1930s also tended towards the playful - I'm particularly thinking of the films that Cavalcanti produced for the GPO Film Unit circa 1937-39, an excellent example being Norman McLaren's delightful, massively Surrealist-influenced Love on the Wing (1938).

MichaelB wrote:

HerrSchreck wrote:With dada, surrealism, and the (almost punk) aesthetic of American surrealism, I don't see what's so "serious" about the AG. Except for maybe it's French Impressionist incarnation alone.

This is absolutely true, and it's well worth noting that the British film avant-garde of the 1930s also tended towards the playful - I'm particularly thinking of the films that Cavalcanti produced for the GPO Film Unit circa 1937-39, an excellent example being Norman McLaren's delightful, massively Surrealist-influenced Love on the Wing (1938).

Also the little-known films of Richard Massingham, particularly Tell Me If It Hurts (1934) which incorporates Soviet montage techniques in depicting a painfully prolonged visit to the dentist! Have Massingham's films been released anywhere on DVD yet? Even imdb is missing at least one title.