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That Kino industry newsletter that they didn't expect to go public confirmed they have Port of Shadows, Last Year at Marienbad, Alphaville, and title(s) by Melville (presumably more than Le Doulos) and Carol Reed. If Criterion re-acquired any of their OOP titles from SC, it is definitely on the low end, perhaps only a couple.

Low end you mean quality of titles or number of titles? If you go by their newsletter and they named the biggest titles they have, that leaves some big titles for Criterion, which I believe will be the case. Time will tell.

I'm interested in knowing the evolution of these latest deals. Could this be the scenario.. Studio Canal went to Criterion first (remember the SC rep was at the Criteion offices) and they turned down this mega deal, probably because CC already has so much on their plate that it would take them years to put out many of the SC films. But did settle for a handful of titles. Kino was up next and easily accepted the deal, and would release these films much faster than Criterion.

Not crazy to me. They would be re-releasing titles with projected sales figures on the lower end and whose restorations already have UK releases. How many people are dying to get Port of Shadows on blu-ray that are region locked to A?

FrauBlucher wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:57 pm Low end you mean quality of titles or number of titles?

I was referring to low in numbers, perhaps 5 or less of the OOP titles.

Probably I’m guessing Grand Illusion, Ran, Peeping Tom, Tales of Hoffman, The Third Man and Contempt?

Drucker wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:59 pm Not crazy to me. They would be re-releasing titles with projected sales figures on the lower end and whose restorations already have UK releases. How many people are dying to get Port of Shadows on blu-ray that are region locked to A?

Of course you cherry-picked the least well-known title out of the Kino ones for your example (except maybe Le doulos). I'd think the better-known titles Criterion never released on Blu would do quite well. I do agree that the titles they already released on BD like Marienbad and the Melvilles (in the case of the Melvilles, they went OOP years later than most of the StudioCanal titles, though, yes, they came out later as well).

The Kino title that really surprises me is Alphaville. The Criterion's DVD is 20 years old and my impression is that it's Godard's second best-known film after Breathless among the wider public -- has that SF/noir appeal. It's possible it just wasn't a viable option for them. It would've been nice if they reaquired Marienbad just to inch closer to the forever just-out-of-reach completion of the heavy-hitter art film canon (Blow-Up and Persona being two of the more recent acquisitions on that level), but since they already released it on BD, not as big a surprise.

captveg wrote:

FrauBlucher wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:57 pm Low end you mean quality of titles or number of titles?

I was referring to low in numbers, perhaps 5 or less of the OOP titles.

I think the high end could be 10 titles and the low end 5. I think Bob Le Flambeur and possibly Army of Shadows that Criterion bring back into fold. KinoInsider (he loves dropping the big name titles in advance) would’ve named Bob Le Flambeur in a NY second, which is the biggest and best known Melville not called Le Samurai.

I also think that all the poor PQ editions that Lionsgate put out will be replaced by the new restorations from Criterion. Ran, The Third Man and Contempt which were all releases in 2010 and now have new sparkling 4k restorations. Why would Studio Canal not want these newer versions out in this market?

We could get an idea in a week with the wacky drawing.

I would agree that Criterion would also want La grande illusion out of everything, if just to get Spine number 1 back into print.

Anyone have a list of the canal titles that are off the table via kino or Cohen et al?

I think there’s six for certain to come back to criterion.

Grand illusion
Third man
Contempt
Tales of Hoffman
Ran
Army of shadows

After that I think it’s an open question, but probably

Le corbeau
Le Trou
Pierrot le fou
Bob le flambeur and or red circle
A couple more Godard
Most of the bunuel

I’d focus on the titles that Kim Hendrickson did the first time around as most suspect (she did all the bunuel titles), because hendrickson only had four or five titles in the entire 2018 slate, indicating she’s working on a big yet to be announced project. If that project is a big batch of studio canal titles, she’s probably also been assigned her original titles as well titles that Takagi and Schiller used to do (since they’re no longer producing individual titles in the former case and no longer at criterion in the latter).

Peeping Tom as well?

The Film Foundation restored Peeping Tom like ten years ago - still waiting for someone to do a good Blu-Ray based on that restoration. (The last reissue - not released in the U.S. - might have used the restoration but it's been subjected to some horrendous grain reduction.)

It doesn't appear that Man Who Fell To Earth has been listed in this thread but that recently was restored and given a godawful blu-ray, so I could see that one coming back, too.

Drucker wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:39 pm It doesn't appear that Man Who Fell To Earth has been listed in this thread but that recently was restored and given a godawful blu-ray, so I could see that one coming back, too.

The film somehow looked worse on this Blu-Ray despite the restoration being made from the original negative. I can see this film coming back for sure except this time it won't feel like a cash grab in the wake of Bowie's death.

I mean SC's terrible encode is likely the reason for that look right? Look at the difference in the Shout/BFI encodes for Herzog. Is there confirmation the restoration itself was botched?

Their Purple Noon 4K restoration was awful and worse than Criterion's 2K restoration, and that had nothing to do with the encode.
To me, their TMWFTE BD is problematic because of the restoration, and then made even worse by a problematic encode. What is unfortunate is that it was restored by Deluxe, people whose restorations are consistently much better than that.

I don’t think I’ve seen Nights of Cabiria mentioned re: the recent StudioCanal developments, but that’s by far the one I’ve been most eager for news on. How do its chances look from here, to those more caught up on the minutiae? I’m not sure how the Lionsgate arrangement affects things.

You're right but Fellini is so hit and miss on blu-ray and the SC disc of La Strada was certainly not worth an upgrade.

bad future wrote: Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:21 pm I don’t think I’ve seen Nights of Cabiria mentioned re: the recent StudioCanal developments, but that’s by far the one I’ve been most eager for news on. How do its chances look from here, to those more caught up on the minutiae? I’m not sure how the Lionsgate arrangement affects things.

Janus tweeted out a Nights of Cabiria poster a few months back. So if people are taking the Ran screenshot tweet as confirmation that it is coming back, I would think the same applies to Nights of Cabiria.

movielocke wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:22 pm
I think there’s six for certain to come back to criterion.

Grand illusion
Third man
Contempt
Tales of Hoffman
Ran
Army of shadows

KJones77 wrote: Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:26 am

captveg wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:36 pm
Unless it's simply remaining with Lionsgate. I get the feeling that SC is allowing Lionsgate to "keep" the handful of titles they released on Blu-ray in the US. Kino just announced Kind Hearts and Coronets, The Lavender Hill Mob and The Man in the White Suit, with The Ladykillers suspiciously absent. Combined with the KL Insider's statement that Ran "most likely stayed with Lionsgate as did many others," I wouldn't be surprised if that's the situation with Contempt.

KL Insider just confirmed Contempt stayed with Lionsgate.

Do we have any new information that confirms your certainty? I don't see any reason to disbelieve Kino Insider for now.

The Grand Illusion, The Third Man, Contempt, and Ran all have Region 1 Blu-ray releases from Lionsgate and they don't appear to be out of print. Sure, Janus tweeted an image of Ran, but that wouldn't mark the first time that they promoted an image from an out of print title.

Don't get me wrong, Ran and The Grand Illusion are two of my all time favorite films, but I'm not holding my breath. I suppose we may have more information when the New Year's clue drops in a week...

Also, Tales of Hoffman has been all but confirmed by Thelma Schoonmaker.

I honestly have no idea why the six movielocke mentions are "certain" in the first place-- Ran and Le mepris were already announced before StudioCanal jerked their rights back, so I can see those two, but the other four are pure speculation

RSTooley wrote:I don't see any reason to disbelieve Kino Insider for now.

He didn’t sound convincing and definitely was not definitive in my mind.

There is nothing to suggest that SC won’t let Criterion release newer versions using recent restoration over the the god awful Lionsgate versions. And still allow the Lionsgate versions to stay in print, much like Universal keeping their editions in print after Criterion releases their’s.

As I said up thread, I can’t imagine SC not wanting the newer restorations released in region A.

The Third Man is a no-brainer, there's already a BD out in the UK using the new 4K restoration, but the sound has problems, so that's the major concern - if Criterion puts it out, they're better off using a soundtrack from their previous releases. In fact, the soundtrack on their first DVD release would be better than their later and OOP Blu-Ray and DVD releases because they compressed the hell out of the sound on those later releases.

I'm wary of a Ran release because there's no guarantee Criterion can fix the color. They've been forced to release restorations with bad revisionist timing multiple times before, like L'argent, The Color of Pomegranates and Muriel, all of which are especially galling because one never had decent home releases of any of those titles.

And I'd wait and see about Contempt as well - MoMI had a Rialto retrospective earlier this year that screened the latest DCP of Contempt, and it looked pretty crummy to me. If that was sourced from the best available digital master, and ultimately what Criterion would have to use, it's nothing to get excited about.

The 50th Anniversary restoration of CONTEMPT was atrocious, especially considering that partway through the screening of Fritz Lang's film, every character in the film starts speaking English (how could they not realize they inserted a dubbed reel into the film).

FrauBlucher wrote: Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:35 pm

RSTooley wrote:I don't see any reason to disbelieve Kino Insider for now.

He didn’t sound convincing and definitely was not definitive in my mind.

There is nothing to suggest that SC won’t let Criterion release newer versions using recent restoration over the the god awful Lionsgate versions. And still allow the Lionsgate versions to stay in print, much like Universal keeping their editions in print after Criterion releases their’s.

As I said up thread, I can’t imagine SC not wanting the newer restorations released in region A.

I don't see how this isn't definitive.

Unless Criterion (who may not even have a new SC deal) struck a different agreement with them, it sounds like all Lionsgate released titles were entirely off the table.