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TMDaines wrote:Is just under 15 pounds going to be the new sort of rough price point for the Dual Formats? It seems a heck of a lot harder to get a good deal on these releases then the Blus previous. The Antonioni's have been out at that price pretty much permanently everywhere apart from a brief sale at Moviemail several months ago.

I would say it's a fair price though.

Der Spieler wrote:

TMDaines wrote:Is just under 15 pounds going to be the new sort of rough price point for the Dual Formats? It seems a heck of a lot harder to get a good deal on these releases then the Blus previous. The Antonioni's have been out at that price pretty much permanently everywhere apart from a brief sale at Moviemail several months ago.

I would say it's a fair price though.

Depends how much money you've got! It's too much for me ultimately. I've purchase all the titles I've wanted from MoC... bar the dual formats as they're too dear. The addition of the DVD isn't really worth an extra 3 or 4 pounds for me. It seems the switching to Dual Format for MoC, Arrow and BFI has been accompanied by a decent price increase. Maybe the prices will fall in a few months time when all the bother with the reprinting from the London riots has calmed down..

The BFI duals ARE cheaper than the blu-rays, none is priced more than £14 when most of them couldn't be bought for less than £18 a couple of years ago.

perkizitore wrote:The BFI duals ARE cheaper than the blu-rays, none is priced more than £14 when most of them couldn't be bought for less than £18 a couple of years ago.

Yeh, true. There just happened to be many crazy sales on the BFIs in the past.

The Dual Format editions cost the same on release as the Blu-ray only ones. I bought all the old Blu-rays, but then because I'm a bit OCD I sold them so I could re-buy them as Dual Formats. On initial release, they've pretty much all been around £14-15. Though admittedly the Antonionis are taking a while to go down, considering the booklet/quality of release etc., it's still a good price.

Then again, Criterion releases, outside of sales, never really go down much, if at all. It's really a double-edged situation for Eureka because they've offered so many great sales that people are now reluctant to actually buy a product full-price upon release.

Der Spieler wrote:Then again, Criterion releases, outside of sales, never really go down much, if at all. It's really a double-edged situation for Eureka because they've offered so many great sales that people are now reluctant to actually buy a product full-price upon release.

Well, once you know how low the prices can go, it's true you become reluctant buying something full prices.
However, a lot of Criterion BDs go down to $20-23 on Amazon, and I think it is already quite low.
I mean, it is almost the same price as during the 50% off on B&N.

tenia wrote:

Der Spieler wrote:Then again, Criterion releases, outside of sales, never really go down much, if at all. It's really a double-edged situation for Eureka because they've offered so many great sales that people are now reluctant to actually buy a product full-price upon release.

Well, once you know how low the prices can go, it's true you become reluctant buying something full prices.
However, a lot of Criterion BDs go down to $20-23 on Amazon, and I think it is already quite low.
I mean, it is almost the same price as during the 50% off on B&N.

14 pounds equals roughly 23$ so I don't see the problem with the MoC prices.

Der Spieler wrote:

tenia wrote:

Der Spieler wrote:Then again, Criterion releases, outside of sales, never really go down much, if at all. It's really a double-edged situation for Eureka because they've offered so many great sales that people are now reluctant to actually buy a product full-price upon release.

Well, once you know how low the prices can go, it's true you become reluctant buying something full prices.
However, a lot of Criterion BDs go down to $20-23 on Amazon, and I think it is already quite low.
I mean, it is almost the same price as during the 50% off on B&N.

14 pounds equals roughly 23$ so I don't see the problem with the MoC prices.

The problem with MoC is that their BDs went much lower than this.
I honestly don't have issue with a £14 combo, since in France, most of single BD editions are priced at 20€ (or sometimes even more : check our 30€ Tree of Life combo !).
I'm just saying that when you're used to a less-than-£10 BD edition, it might be a bit difficult to put £5 more for a disc you will (almost) never use.

One single exemple : I'm buying almost all MoC right through their pre-order newsletter. But I've bought most of my MoC HD releases when they were in sales. As a result, I've paid most of them £8. And that includes about 10-12 releases.

So I can perfectly understand people finding a £15 combo a bit high-priced, but I also think they over react.
It's just that we are getting used to have MoC releases in sale with a 30% off saving.

I don't see any problem with their prices either. Compared to company like Criterion and Carlotta, they have very good prices...

I guess the fact that we were able to get the dvds for half the price is what disappoints some people...

Suggestion to MoC: Make special packages at special prices for new titles in Euraka sales. For example, the three Pasolini together for around 39 pounds or less would be great! That makes 13 a title I don't know if its still reasonable profit for you considering you'd probably sell more?

tenia wrote: The problem with MoC is that their BDs went much lower than this.
I honestly don't have issue with a £14 combo, since in France, most of single BD editions are priced at 20€ (or sometimes even more : check our 30€ Tree of Life combo !).
I'm just saying that when you're used to a less-than-£10 BD edition, it might be a bit difficult to put £5 more for a disc you will (almost) never use.

One single exemple : I'm buying almost all MoC right through their pre-order newsletter. But I've bought most of my MoC HD releases when they were in sales. As a result, I've paid most of them £8. And that includes about 10-12 releases.

So I can perfectly understand people finding a £15 combo a bit high-priced, but I also think they over react.
It's just that we are getting used to have MoC releases in sale with a 30% off saving.

Some of their older Blus, apart from only one very big sale, have never lost their original 14.93 pounds price tag (Rock Hunter, for example). But I understand your point.

Hail_Cesar wrote: Suggestion to MoC: Make special packages at special prices for new titles in Euraka sales. For example, the three Pasolini together for around 39 pounds or less would be great! That makes 13 a title I don't know if its still reasonable profit for you considering you'd probably sell more?

They used to do this with a few DVD titles, like the Pialat.

tenia wrote:The problem with MoC is that their BDs went much lower than this.
I honestly don't have issue with a £14 combo, since in France, most of single BD editions are priced at 20€ (or sometimes even more : check our 30€ Tree of Life combo !).
I'm just saying that when you're used to a less-than-£10 BD edition, it might be a bit difficult to put £5 more for a disc you will (almost) never use.

One single exemple : I'm buying almost all MoC right through their pre-order newsletter. But I've bought most of my MoC HD releases when they were in sales. As a result, I've paid most of them £8. And that includes about 10-12 releases.

So I can perfectly understand people finding a £15 combo a bit high-priced, but I also think they over react.
It's just that we are getting used to have MoC releases in sale with a 30% off saving.

This pretty much sums it up. Some argue that these extra DVDs and digital copies are freebies tacked on but they cost something at the end of the day and this gets passed on to the customers. I've no doubt they're still good value for money but it's kind of hard to see the extra 3-4 pounds worth. I'm sure I'll get them sooner rather than later but I'll still wait for at least some decent deal.

For what it is worth my both university library and language centre have stopped stocking MoC, BFI and Arrow titles since the switch to Dual Format. In this case the Blu-ray is going to be the coaster and not vice versa.

MoC NEVER SOLD ANY BLU FOR LESS THAN £13 ON RELEASE DATE.
Seriously, I do not like paying extra for their blus on release date, when I know they will be cheaper in a few months but I have bought so many DVD bargains for them I can hardly complain.
Don't forget that if nobody was buying stuff on release date they would go bust. This whining does not help anybody, especially Eureka.

Your university librarians are probably idiots; The BFI Dual Format releases are not A SINGLE PENNY more expensive than their standalone DVD prices a couple of years ago and MoC Duals are only £2-3 more expensive than their DVDs.
I cannot believe that Warwick, while habing the best Film Department in the UK, can be so petty.

That the old BD editions might have sometimes ended up £3 or £4 cheaper than the Duals was actually due to heavy discounting (BD sales always tail off because the userbase isn't as large as DVD). This is how, after a year, BD-only editions often ended up cheaper than the DVD-only editions. Putting both formats together in one edition consolidates everything, is much more logistically efficient from a manufacturing perspective, and eliminates the competition between formats, as well as the need for heavy discounting.

TMDaines wrote:For what it is worth my both university library and language centre have stopped stocking MoC, BFI and Arrow titles since the switch to Dual Format. In this case the Blu-ray is going to be the coaster and not vice versa.

If that's true that's crazy. For the obvious reason that Dual Format future proofs while maintaining accessibility. But also because uni libraries are often institutionally bound to buy from certain sellers, who don't discount.

perkizitore wrote:MoC NEVER SOLD ANY BLU FOR LESS THAN £13 ON RELEASE DATE.
Seriously, I do not like paying extra for their blus on release date, when I know they will be cheaper in a few months but I have bought so many DVD bargains for them I can hardly complain.
Don't forget that if nobody was buying stuff on release date they would go bust. This whining does not help anybody, especially Eureka.

Your university librarians are probably idiots; The BFI Dual Format releases are not A SINGLE PENNY more expensive than their standalone DVD prices a couple of years ago and MoC Duals are only £2-3 more expensive than their DVDs.
I cannot believe that Warwick, while habing the best Film Department in the UK, can be so petty.

Clearly you don't know too much about Warwick! There's a reason why it's nicknamed Warwick ltd!

The library and language centre doesn't really have much to do with the film and TV department. I imagine they have their own archive as the number of disks in the library is only about a grand. They pretty much had most MoCs you'd expect but none of the Blu/Dual titles. Same with BFI.

There's over 3000 titles in the language centre however of (rough) French, German and Italian origin, including both commerical releases and off-air recordings. Sadly only two Blu-rays though: Coeur fidele and one other which I've forgotten.

John Edmond wrote:

TMDaines wrote:For what it is worth my both university library and language centre have stopped stocking MoC, BFI and Arrow titles since the switch to Dual Format. In this case the Blu-ray is going to be the coaster and not vice versa.

If that's true that's crazy. For the obvious reason that Dual Format future proofs while maintaining accessibility. But also because uni libraries are often institutionally bound to buy from certain sellers, who don't discount.

I'm not sure how Blu-ray is any more future proofed than DVD since DVDs can be played in Blu-ray players and not vice versa. In academic institutions the emphasis is always going to be placed in having the material available as widely as possible - rather than in the best possible conditions - so DVD is going to win out. What good is a Blu-ray if most lecture rooms can't play it, very few of PCs can and an even number of smaller students at home can?

I thought that was my point? Dual format means all the students and facilities can play the DVDs - and in the future if the lecture/screening rooms have HD projectors installed....well voila! the library has em on blu-ray! Really this is a case of the library getting some blu-rays, since as you say no library is about to buy blu-ray only editions of films.

TMDaines wrote:I'm not sure how Blu-ray is any more future proofed than DVD since DVDs can be played in Blu-ray players and not vice versa. In academic institutions the emphasis is always going to be placed in having the material available as widely as possible - rather than in the best possible conditions - so DVD is going to win out. What good is a Blu-ray if most lecture rooms can't play it, very few of PCs can and an even number of smaller students at home can?

The idea is that Blu-ray provides the best quality, and will be able to be widely used in the future. The problem you identify, regarding the inability to use the Blu-ray discs, is irrelevent since MoC are providing a DVD anyway. Doing it this way is, as nick pointed out, more efficient. But it also stops institutions or individuals having to rebuy the product when Blu-ray becomes more popular. Just looking through the holidings of our languages center and MML department, I notice they still have so much crap on video.

HJackson wrote:

TMDaines wrote:I'm not sure how Blu-ray is any more future proofed than DVD since DVDs can be played in Blu-ray players and not vice versa. In academic institutions the emphasis is always going to be placed in having the material available as widely as possible - rather than in the best possible conditions - so DVD is going to win out. What good is a Blu-ray if most lecture rooms can't play it, very few of PCs can and an even number of smaller students at home can?

The idea is that Blu-ray provides the best quality, and will be able to be widely used in the future. The problem you identify, regarding the inability to use the Blu-ray discs, is irrelevent since MoC are providing a DVD anyway. Doing it this way is, as nick pointed out, more efficient. But it also stops institutions or individuals having to rebuy the product when Blu-ray becomes more popular. Just looking through the holidings of our languages center and MML department, I notice they still have so much crap on video.

The question is whether or not Blu-ray is going to become the format in the future though? I strongly doubt it ever will be, especially in places where a physical copy simply isn't necessary. We as collectors may love having a beautifully presented DVD or Blu-ray but the technology is starting be there now where this materical can be shared digitally in educational institutions. There's really little reason for these places to upgrade from DVD to Blu-ray, especially when the future is going to be digital anyway.

TMDaines wrote:The question is whether or not Blu-ray is going to become the format in the future though? I strongly doubt it ever will be, especially in places where a physical copy simply isn't necessary. We as collectors may love having a beautifully presented DVD or Blu-ray but the technology is starting be there now where this materical can be shared digitally in educational institutions. There's really little reason for these places to upgrade from DVD to Blu-ray, especially when the future is going to be digital anyway.

I suspect similar issues were behind the BFI's recent decision to downgrade their Adelphi Collection releases from dual-format to DVD-only. Great though it was to have them on Blu-ray, it meant an RRP that was approximately double the norm for minor 1950s British titles on DVD, and from what I hear they had a lot of complaints about this.

And when coupled with the fact that the BD-only release of Penny Points to Paradise apparently sold particularly poorly, the conclusions were inescapable - the overlap between Blu-ray-compatible customers and the target market for these releases just wasn't enough to justify carrying on. I'd also hazard a guess that the kind of people who are into old Diana Dors comedies probably aren't going to be first in the queue to upgrade to HD.

TMDaines wrote:

John Edmond wrote:

TMDaines wrote:For what it is worth my both university library and language centre have stopped stocking MoC, BFI and Arrow titles since the switch to Dual Format. In this case the Blu-ray is going to be the coaster and not vice versa.

If that's true that's crazy. For the obvious reason that Dual Format future proofs while maintaining accessibility. But also because uni libraries are often institutionally bound to buy from certain sellers, who don't discount.

I'm not sure how Blu-ray is any more future proofed than DVD since DVDs can be played in Blu-ray players and not vice versa. In academic institutions the emphasis is always going to be placed in having the material available as widely as possible - rather than in the best possible conditions - so DVD is going to win out. What good is a Blu-ray if most lecture rooms can't play it, very few of PCs can and an even number of smaller students at home can?

If they're like most libraries in the United States, the libraries will generally not want to add Blu-rays to the collection because too few people see any need for it, and the library wants to avoid confusing people, so it's pretty sad to imagine a library processing a dual-format BFI or MoC release and throwing the Blu-ray in the trash, but it probably doesn't make much practical difference.

TMDaines wrote:

Der Spieler wrote:I would say it's a fair price though.

Depends how much money you've got!

Well, no.

How much money you've got will determine whether it is something that you can afford. However, it has no impact on what constitutes a "fair price" for the item in question.

What about the uni students who don't have a DVD-Rom drive, only a CD-Rom drive or a Zip-drive?

I've said before, the dual format BD/DVD reminds me of the horrible CD/cassette combo packs in the late 80's early 90's. But I'm saying that not in a business-mindset. I know BD players are still lower in percentage of the marketplace.

Just ordered "Silent Running" and the 2 Imamura discs from the Eureka site directly.

This month's offers are up!

Are you going to honour Eureka by buying something this month, Der Spieler?