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That was kind of Manohla's argument in the Times: this film said something important (about feminism? social expectations?) because the auteur was, for lack of a kinder term, either not conventionally attractive or trying to be conventionally attractive.

Tom Hagen wrote:That was kind of Manohla's argument in the Times: this film said something important (about feminism? social expectations?) because the auteur was, for lack of a kinder term, either not conventionally attractive or trying to be conventionally attractive.

which goes back to the anecdote I recalled earlier in this thread: that many of her "fans" gave her crap for "selling out" because she lost weight after making the movie. Here's a link scared up by a quick google search that speaks to this aspect of her acclaim, stemming from what she calls her "chubby attitude."

This is perhaps a can of worms too large for this thread, but almost all of the raves about Dunham do seem to hone in on her average looks and body...as though that is part of her triumph, or something. I guess the idea is that she's not only speaking for the disaffected twenty something hipsters in their Tribeca lofts who don't know what they want to do with their lives, but also for average girls everywhere who think that only supermodels and pretty blondes get hired after college (and here I thought they were too stupid...my stereotypes need updating). Whether this comes from Dunham herself or her fans is open to debate, but it's something she certainly talks about a lot.

None of which, of course, as a lick to do with her skills as a filmmaker or the merits of this film, but somehow has become intertwined with both. Part of what annoys me so much about the film (and her in general) is how she consistently falls back on her average looks as the thing that makes her special...that she managed to do all this in spite of her physical barriers! she's not just lost, the poor girl is also irrevocably average! I find it all incredibly shallow and a bit sad. It's also incredibly disingenuous for her to act like it was some incredible achievement to overcome those societal obstacles pretty girls don't have, given that her parents are wealthy artists with lots of friends in high places.

Edit to add: out of curiosity, I looked up her Fresh Air interview and, interestingly enough, they chose the bit i remembered to highlight in the summary:

On her character's low self-esteem in the film: "It's trite to say, but when you're not sure about who you are, or what you're worth, or what your purpose is, there's a way that you'll let people who you think have a clearer sense of those things [into your life] and be thankful for any attention those people will give you."

On Dunham's self-esteem and body image: "The joke I always make about myself is that I'm self-involved, but I'm not vain. It's like, I've never been overly concerned with those things. I'm always having to be told to brush my hair. And I love clothes — I love fashion, I have a totally bad shopping habit — but it's much more because I like things that are fun to touch and colorful and amuse people. That being said, I'm a young woman living in an age where this is the national obsession. I can't lie about that. Recently, just from growing up and stopping certain college eating habits, I lost 15 pounds. And I'm still bigger than any other girl you're going to see in a movie or on TV, but it was interesting because people reacted to it like: 'Oh, you're going Hollywood.' And it was like, I'm still young. My body's still changing. I don't even know what height I am yet."

Jeff wrote:

oldsheperd wrote:Wow! From what I've read Tiny Furniture seems like a mish-mash of mid-twenties post-college isolation and aimlessness. That's original.

I've seen it, and that is unfair reductionism, oldsheperd. Tiny Furniture is actually a mish-mash of mid-twenties post-college isolation and aimlessness as seen through the prism of a self-important, pretentious naif with a massive sense of entitlement.

aye, that about sums it up. if there's any single film i've seen in the past year that made me think 'argh, haneke's right' it's this one. and after so much lamenting the fact that women are so underrepresented, we get this. frankly, it's insulting. (and by that i mean the very existence of the film, not criterion releasing it.)

Doctor Sunshine wrote:Out of curiosity, what did the 2 or 3 people who were dragged to see this's dates think of the film?

My date loved it, but she's definitely the target audience. Okay, the film provides the nascent, self-absorbed young women of the world a phony cinematic experience wherein ugliness becomes synonymous with truth and validates their own attempts at overcoming youthful (liberal/attractiveness/financial) guilt via similar forced uglification of the world. There's undoubtedly a newly pliant audience for this sort of thing, and as someone already suggested, certain newer target audiences for Criterion will devour this merrily. From a business standpoint, I get it. But I sort of feel that Criterion could sell anything and anything could be defended for release, making that not much of an argument for or against a film's value. Which leaves just the film. And that's where we came in.

I take it there was no second date, then?

That wasn't our first or last date, for better or worse!

domino harvey wrote:the nascent, self-absorbed

Doesn't this describe every twenty-something on the planet? I'm out of my twenties and I don't think I've moved past this phase.

And beyond the strictly financial and marketing perspective, Criterion and HBO have done alright spotting other types of merit. Then again, I've yet to make it more than 20 minutes into a mumblecore movie--though the reviews I've read gauge this as one of the least mumbley ones--but time will tell. Would be pretty cool if it brought in any more girls to the forum.

Just read all six pages. This is the most depressing thread on this forum.

Where is the forum's collective sign not only over Tiny Furniture, but the inclusion of Nora Ephron on it?

The Elegant Dandy Fop wrote:Where is the forum's collective sign not only over Tiny Furniture, but the inclusion of Nora Ephron on it?

Haha, seems appropriate, really.

Announced for Valentine's Day 2012.

Seriously. With Paul Schrader's involvement.

Surely this comes as a huge relief to Allison Anders.

As has been well established, there is no God.

Do you love your girlfriend? Give her a special treat this Valentine's Day: all the Lena Dunham a girl could ever want!

Murdoch wrote:Based on the trailer I can't say I have any interest in it. I don't mind mumblecore, I enjoyed Beeswax a great deal and at least one of the actors from that are in this, but the dialogue is just too grating.

well it looks really interesting to me, i like this kind of aesthetic, american white peoples lives/talking. i thought the girl looked like the girl in Funny HAHA, but it isn't, that movie i loved, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGC8d8kzM2A" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; does anyone know the song that closes the trailer for that film, if you know it you can pm me.

Honestly, I think this would have elicited mostly shrugs of indifference if the alleged "Certified Copy is minor Kiarostami" controversy hadn't happened at approximately the same time that original news of this came out.

Oh wow, I didn't know Lena Dunham was a major talent.

Tom Hagen wrote:Announced for Valentine's Day 2012.

Seriously. With Paul Schrader's involvement.

And Phillip Lopate.

I wonder how she feels getting her film announced beside the likes of Fassbinder and Preminger?

*CG* wrote:I wonder how she feels getting her film announced beside the likes of Fassbinder

"He is such a great actor, I loved him the Criterion release of Fish Tank"

domino harvey wrote:

*CG* wrote:I wonder how she feels getting her film announced beside the likes of Fassbinder

"He is such a great actor, I loved him the Criterion release of Fish Tank"

That was better than what I was thinking. I just thought she prob didn't care.

Shit that doesn't interest me sucks.

I was really hoping this was an elaborate prank, and that Certified Copy would get announced instead.

The Elegant Dandy Fop wrote:Where is the forum's collective sign not only over Tiny Furniture, but the inclusion of Nora Ephron on it?

I stopped sighing after Chasing Amy, Armageddon & Fat Girl.

What A Disgrace wrote:I was really hoping this was an elaborate prank, and that Certified Copy would get announced instead.

No kidding. They license this thing and call Certified Copy too "minor" for their catalog? The only saving grace would be if Glenn Kenny wrote the liner notes.