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if I recall correctly, the shot was improvised in a great hurry to catch the light, with costumes thrown on crew and whoever was handy

You do recall correctly. I don't believe any of the actors are in that shot.

Last night I did something I've never done before: I watched a dubbed film.
I've seen The Seventh Seal at least 20 times, and in fact just watched it before I bought the new DVD release (I only had the old Criterion LD, so it was time for an update). So as an excuse to watch it again, I thought I'd give the dubbed version a try, mainly out of curiosity.

I have to say, it wasn't the laughably embarrassing experience I expected. In fact, I found it rewarding. Despite some odd voice casting, the overall experience didn't feel too compromised and I actually got a lot out of it. I was able to appreciate the performances in a new light (by watching the actors faces), not to mention that I could stay completely focused on the visuals, editing, the story itself, etc. And watching the film in english seemed to bring me closer to the film in some ways, there wasn't this filter between me and the film (although there was a different filter), and I felt that I got better sense of what it must be like to watch these films in one's own language.

I'm not saying I prefer this to subtitles, nor that I will be watching films dubbed from now on, but I do appreciate the added english-dubbed tracks, and I will probably add a dubbed-version viewing to films I've seen many times.

The check out the English dubbed Rashomon. Borderline racist stuff there with the fake accents!

The casting for English-speaking voice actors leaves much to be desired. While I won't say other countries have it down pat, they import so much English-language stuff that they've discovered an art to dubbing. I saw an episode of "Columbo" dubbed into Japanese, and they managed to find an appropriately gravel-voiced Japanese actor who sounded a lot like Peter Falk!

And a propos dubbing and subbing, I watched the new release of Seventh Seal last night, and I have to say the subs are drastically improved over the first version. I'd forgotten how funny this movie is at times, and the improved subs do a lot here to bring the humor out.

When I first played The Conformist DVD it was in English, and I was like WHAT? It was horrible, had to start over from the beginning in Italian or was it French?

montgomery wrote:Last night I did something I've never done before: I watched a dubbed film.

Not too interested in Italian cinema, huh?

mteller wrote:

montgomery wrote:Last night I did something I've never done before: I watched a dubbed film.

Not too interested in Italian cinema, huh?

I was waiting for this comment, though I didn't imagine it would be phrased in the most condescending manner possible.

Yes, I'm interested in Italian cinema. I didn't think I needed to qualify my statement, but I apologize for my mistake.

And again, I don't mean to suggest that dubbing is equal or superior to subtitling, only that it's a useful way to supplement the experience of watching a favorite foreign film (or, I should say, a film that's in a language you don't understand). For all that's lost, a few things are gained, so watching a familiar film both ways can broaden the experience, which can never be perfect unless one knows the language. That said, the voice casting for The Seventh Seal was just barely tolerable, so I can imagine it being totally unwatchable in other, more egregious, cases. (No effort was made, by the way, to match the english with the actors mouths, other than stopping and starting at approximately the same time).

To Jbeall, I will say that watching it dubbed also brought out the humor in the film, especially because one can focus on the exaggerated expressions of the actors.

And a propos dubbing and subbing, I watched the new release of Seventh Seal last night, and I have to say the subs are drastically improved over the first version. I'd forgotten how funny this movie is at times, and the improved subs do a lot here to bring the humor out.

It's been years since I'd seen it, but I rewatched the new version last night and this really surprised me as well. The movie has such a reputation for being very stolid and serious and profound, and yet there is so much bawdy humour and playfulness in there. It's really a vibrant movie, and far less intellectual than its reputation would have you believe. For one thing, it so viscerally recreates the texture of mediaeval society, with its wooden tavern benches and overflowing keg taps, and its smoking censers, and its grotesque iconography, and its cold, hollow castles; with its religious hysteria but also its low humour and playfulness. And it can be so moving, such as with the death of the witch: none of that moment's inhumanity is lost on Bergman.

This went from being the only Bergman to do nothing for me to a possible favourite (along with a few others).

When I first watched 7th Seal, I was stunned to see just how many bits of humor (albeit some quite blackly humorous) were scattered throughout this reputedly dour and humorless film. Then again, I can't understand how people miss the rather high amount of humor (some of which is quite broad) in Tokyo Story.

I just watched this for the first time, on release, and I found it to be a comedy first and foremost. That was rather shocking considering its reputation. Bergman's later films seem much closer to that reputation, but even then I wouldn't say dour.
And now that I've gotten into Ozu, I have to agree MK that he adds in, to the films I've seen, a lot of humor. Late Autumn was practically a farce.

montgomery wrote:I was waiting for this comment, though I didn't imagine it would be phrased in the most condescending manner possible.

This is cf.org, condescending is the name of the game around here. Maybe I didn't do it right. domino harvey, teach me how!

I've watched a goood deal of Italian cinema - mostly trying to determine just WTF gets some people so excited about Bava, Fulci & Argento - and I found the comment very funny, not condescending.

Broke in my "Seventh Seal" Blu-ray over the weekend. My 2nd time seeing it, and only my third Bergman film to date after "Wild Strawberries" and "Fanny & Alexander" (theatrical). Yes, I suck at life and I'm slow.

Who says HD can't make an old movie look new again? The resolution/contrast boost and minimal tampering (film grain for the win!) gave me a "Seventh Seal" presentation so exquisite I literally felt like I was watching the movie for the first time even though I caught it on TCM a few months back. I was struck this time by how much of a co-equal Gunnar Bjönstrand's Jöns is to von Sydow's lead character. It is Jöns who faces death in the end (along with the others) while Antonius Block continues his futile prayers for God to interfere. It's also Jöns who becomes the movie's one-man Greek choir and audience surrogate (his timely explanations in the forest when Plog and Skat are arguing over the former's wife are laugh-out loud on the money). But it's the uncertainty that consumes Block while he plays around with Death (Benkt Ekerot) that grounds the movie and provides it with its universal and timeless appeal. The shot of the 'dance of death' is still too far away and distant to make its participants visible even on 1080p. Only after viewing the much-closer publicity still does the power of the imagery/moment in that scene come through, at least for me. I'm ashamed to say that I completely missed the humor and wackiness (Death's saw, Nils Poppe's 'bear' dance, etc.) on my first viewing that this time just jumped out of the screen. Must be the high-def. :-"

It's interesting to note that the close-up publicity still of the dance of death is reversed and tilted, which gives me the impression that it was a photo taken from the other side of the hill.

At 46 minutes and 23 seconds does Bergman make a cameo?

Does anyone else's Blu-Ray copy of Seventh Seal have a glitch during Bergman Island from 01:10:31-01:10:34 where everything gets all jagged & blocky?

I hadn't noticed before, but yes, mine does the same thing.

Murdoch wrote:At 46 minutes and 23 seconds does Bergman make a cameo?

If you're referring to the old man holding a chicken bone looking almost into camera, while he does resemble Bergman in his old age, that actor is way to old to be Bergman in 1957.

swo17 wrote:I hadn't noticed before, but yes, mine does the same thing.

Thanks for checking; I guess I'm relieved to know it's not an issue with my specific copy way past the Barnes & Noble exchange period.

PfR73 wrote:

Murdoch wrote:At 46 minutes and 23 seconds does Bergman make a cameo?

If you're referring to the old man holding a chicken bone looking almost into camera, while he does resemble Bergman in his old age, that actor is way to old to be Bergman in 1957.

That's true, I guess I'm just used to old man Bergman.

Bergman's cameo is as the priest in the confessional

I just noticed something in the strawberries and milk scene. Just when Jof enters the scene, take a look at the horse that's grazing in the background. At that point, they substitute a fake horse, complete with a back leg that moves slightly forward then back, and the tail wags once. I don't know that a real horse can stay still that long so it must be a fabrication. Kind of interesting. Maybe a common thing in the theater.

Question about The Seventh Seal in the Ingmar Bergman: Four Masterworks box set.

I've been planning to buy this set for a long time. But I heard that Criterion mistakenly put the Janus "bare-bones" version of The Seventh Seal disc into the box when they first printed this set. Criterion later acknowledged that and seemed to promise that if they reprint this set in the future they will replace it with the correct disc, which should be the 1999 Criterion's first edition (spine #11) of the film. Since Criterion never said how many "wrong" sets had already been released into the market and whether they have ever reprinted the box set again, I have no idea if I buy one today will I get a correct one.

May I ask anyone who bought this set actually got a correct disc of The Seventh Seal? Hope someone can shed some light on this issue.

When I bought this set for my then-girlfriend 4 years ago, it had the correct disc. I can't remember from where I bought it, but I'm pretty sure it was a US online retailer.

willoneill wrote:When I bought this set for my then-girlfriend 4 years ago, it had the correct disc. I can't remember from where I bought it, but I'm pretty sure it was a US online retailer.

Thanks for your reply.

Given that your buying date (2008) was so close to the first release date (Dec, 2007) of the box set, may I ask that did you open the case of The Seventh Seal or even watched the film? As far as I know, the case of The Seventh Seal is correct but the disc is wrong. So if you didn't open the case or even watched the film to make sure that was not bare-bones, you might not notice you got a wrong disc at that time.