criterionforum.org

I should probably post this in it's appropriate thread, but what about Scenes from a Marriage and its shortened version. I pretty much refuse to see it since I can't imagine the film edited down from what its miniseries version is, since its the drawn out nature of the "scenes" that makes the movie so compelling.

domino harvey wrote:All of the libidinous uncle's best scenes aren't in the short version. If there were no other reasons to dismiss the three-hour version, that would be enough.

In short version, Uncle screws chambermaid and farts out a candle. That's all the uncle I need.

I'm really looking forward to seeing the full-length version (I'm going to make it an early Christmas present to myself sometime in December, because it's one hell of a Christmas movie), and when I save up to buy Scenes From A Marriage, I don't think I'll see the 3 hour version even out of curiosity. I like what Klaylock says. It's already 3 hours, what's another 2? Has anyone done what Bergman suggests, and watched the first three episodes, had dinner, then watched the last two? That sounds like a really fantastic way to spend the evening.

Tommaso wrote:Sure, but it will give you a completely different perception and perhaps opinion of the film. The great qualities of "F&A" are the details, the slow-going but caring view Bergman gives us of his characters, the emotional intensity that is created by this. This isn't exactly lost in the theatrical version, but is much more impressive in the long one.

So, what do you want me to do about it? It's the only version available to me at this moment and in the near future. What's with the badgering?

GringoTex wrote:

domino harvey wrote:All of the libidinous uncle's best scenes aren't in the short version. If there were no other reasons to dismiss the three-hour version, that would be enough.

In short version, Uncle screws chambermaid and farts out a candle. That's all the uncle I need.

What about the scene with him castigating his German wife in the bedroom? That's one of Bergman's best ever dialogue driven domestic devastation scenes ever.
(Do I get extra points for the alliteration ?)
The confrontation between Henrik (Bergman's father) and his prospective Mother in Law in Best Intentions runs a close second

GringoTex wrote:

domino harvey wrote:All of the libidinous uncle's best scenes aren't in the short version. If there were no other reasons to dismiss the three-hour version, that would be enough.

In short version, Uncle screws chambermaid and farts out a candle. That's all the uncle I need.

I believe these are different uncles: Gustav Adolf screws, Carl farts.

To anyone unfortunate person on this board who has not seen this film should check the listings for IFC, or their cable provider. I have Comcast and under the free movies section, IFC free films you can watch the 3 hour version for free. Granted it isnt as good as the TV version, you can at least get your first seeing of the film for free in your own house. They also have the Seventh Seal for a couple more days for free in the IFC free movie section, watchable anytime.

Seeing the full version first is worth the wait. It really is a different film. Bergman himself felt the same, quite strongly, although predictably not everyone will agree. I think if one wants to make the comparison, though, it is best to see the full version before experiencing the one Bergman was forced to drastically cut down.
It's definitely worth it to pass up several more run-of-the-mill DVD purchases to finance a purchase of this set. Another idea, for those in the U.S at least, is to visit your local library and see if they have the set. My public library has it, for example, and their collection is fairly meager. If not, contact the person who purchases video materials and see if they would be willing to purchase it as soon as they have enough in the budget. Maybe even include a brief list of all the accolades the film has received.

I saw the 3-hour cut first, and frankly, think that watching the full cut last was better. It made something I already deeply loved even more emotional and heart-wrenching.

I've never seen the 3 hour cut as I own the AE release, I've not really considered viewing it really, I can't see what purpose it would have after having seen (and loved) the 5 hour cut. Am I wrong?

FSimeoni wrote:I've never seen the 3 hour cut as I own the AE release, I've not really considered viewing it really, I can't see what purpose it would have after having seen (and loved) the 5 hour cut. Am I wrong?

The only reason I would see if trying to introduce someone else to the film. That's what I did with my old roommate's girlfriend. She wanted to see something really good, and I briefly gave her a description of the plot and she was intrigued. Got her to watch the 3-hour cut, and she came back asking to see the full thing.

The obvious reason for viewing (or owning) the theatrical and television versions of both this film and Scenes from a Marriage is that the comparison between the cuts is an excellent lesson in film editing pedagogy. Peter Cowie does a great job examining editing issues on both the Fanny and Alexander theatrical cut commentary and on the Scenes from a Marriage featurette. If you are a Bergman fan, having both versions of these films is essential: they each have different artistic aims, and they each have particular virtues (although I suspect one would be hard-pressed to find many of Bergman's fans who do not strongly prefer the miniseries versions of these films). But if you are at all interested in the editing process, I think these films are also an excellent study that supplies a strong justification for Criterion's inclusion of both versions in their sets.

I agree with the above on the comparison between cuts of Fanny and Alexander and Scenes from a Marriage being very interesting. But I like owning both because I like to lend my films out to friends and the theatrical versions are more accessible than the mini series, especially for people who aren't so familiar with Ingmar Bergman.

Great films though. Fanny and Alexander is one of the best.

Just got through my first viewing of the film tonight, the television version of course. My gf and I watched an episode per week over the past month, taking the film in slowly and I really can't express right now how wonderful this film is. Thematically, visually and emotionally Bergman's film is a powerhouse. Everything is explored and everything is mystery as we watch the story unfold from the viewpoint of children and from adults and where they intersect. It's overwhelming yet satisfying in a way few films area. I want to discuss but don't even know where to start. The spirituality perhaps? Art as religion? Religion as art? To those who haven't seen the television version yet, please grab it and sit down with it as fall/winter is perfect season for this film. You need a sweater and darkness outside to appreciate both the film's warmth and coldness. I'm rambling here, but yeah, wonderful -- absolutely wonderful.

Antoine Doinel wrote: I want to discuss but don't even know where to start.

I've watched the television version once a year since the release of the boxset, and I still feel that way.

After watching my first few Bergman movies over the past few years, I am finally ready to sit through this (admittedly, the plot sounds boring, but it's Bergman and if anyone can pull this off, he can). After reading the director's wishes, I am going to watch the television cut (5 hours). Bergman says we should have a light lunch and dinner in between various sections of the film; it should really be an all day affair. Does he or anyone else offer any recipes/dishes of what to make that enhance the viewer's experience with the film? Any advice would be helpful.

aox wrote:After watching my first few Bergman movies over the past few years, I am finally ready to sit through this (admittedly, the plot sounds boring, but its Bergman and if anyone can pull this off, he can). After reading the director's wishes, I am going to watch the television cut (5 hours). Bergman says we should have a light lunch and dinner in between various sections of the film; it should really be an all day affair. Does he or anyone else offer any recipes/dishes of what to make that enhance the viewer's experience with the film? Any advice would be helpful. I want to maximize this to its fullest potential.

Before starting: some kind of hearty stew
1/3 through: something feast-y and decadent, like rabbit or pork
2/3 through: bread and water
After: lots and lots of cake and pastries

Anyone get this? Is it region-free? I'd rather wait for the eventual Criterion Blu-Ray release, but I could be tempted if I'm feeling impatient.

Approx. 45 minutes before starting the film, eat one pound of baked beans, and keep a cigarette lighter handy.

Drink cognac every time a character drinks some. You'll feel good.

You'll die.

Well, there is that.

mteller wrote:2/3 through: bread and water

And some chicken skin to pretend it's the seared palm of the maid.

The full-length version is playing this week at IFC in NY. Does anyone know if this a digitally projected screening (as the complete Scenes From a Marriage was, I think, when it screened recently at Film Forum), or if there's finally a film print of the complete version making the rounds?

According to the New York Times, it's screening from an HD digital source at the IFC Center. From my recollection, the digital projection capabilities at the IFC Center are pretty good.This indicates that the restoration was done digitally. Considering the length of the uncut version, it seems unlikely to me that someone would expend the resources to transfer the restoration to film. By my estimation, the print would weigh over 150 lbs. It probably wouldn't make much economic sense to do it since very few arthouse theatres will run a feature that long. On the other hand, the digitally restored French version of Lola Montes looked gorgeous in 35 mm on the big screen and Best of Youth had a successful 35 mm run despite being even an hour longer than the uncut Fanny and Alexander. Hopefully, it will someday make its way onto film stock.

If you want to see a 35 mm screening of the 188 minute theatrical version of Fanny and Alexander, it's playing at Laemmle's Royal Theatre in West Los Angeles on Tuesday, December 16th as part of this series.

I went to see it, and it is definitely an HD source. While the resolution itself was pretty good, every time the camera moved (and when characters moved quickly), there was a significant amount of both jerkiness and flickering that went a long way to ruining the experience. Is this kind of thing common with HD? Does it have to do more with the equipment or the transfer itself? Also, some of the colors (reds, greens mostly) looked blown out and video-like.

The jerkiness etc probably had more to do with whatever projection system they were using than with the source material.