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Domino, when you say Rogue Nation was the greatest spy film you have seen, are you talking about spy action films ala MI and Bond or any spy film (including more spy drama films like some of the Le Carre adaptations)?

I still vastly prefer Fallout and Ghost Protocol over Rogue Nation, which is the one I felt to be a mere spin over the previous installment.

Rogue Nation isn't even my fourth favorite MI film. I found this to be much more about Hunt as a myth while also humanizing him. If anything this film made good what Infinity War did so awful vis-a-vis the moral choice of the "hero". Sure it's been done before, but the way Hunt is presented here took an interesting angle on it

nitin, I was specifically thinking of action versions (so Bourne, Bond, other Missions, &c), but actually, I'd probably rank Rogue Nation above the serious variations too. It's probably helpful for me to point out that I don't think much of spy movies, as while they should provide some great tension and opportunities for obfuscation and complications, too often they turn into superhero movies, where everyone can do everything and there's no danger or risk or fallibility (and those dour dramatic spy movies of the sixties have the opposite problem, so solemn and po-faced and suffocating). So when Rogue Nation brings to the party an undermining twist that comments on the very structure and nature of all of these movies, maybe I am more receptive to what it's doing than someone who enjoys these kind of movies. It also helps immensely that it's well-made and contains the most visually stunning action scene I've ever seen in the Vienna Opera House setpiece

dda (and others doubters), I'm a longstanding holder of minority opinions, so I can theoretically understand someone being under-enthused by Rogue Nation. But I also feel confident that anyone who is obviously gets something very different out of these films than I do. I have literally no idea how to approach the notion that Rogue Nation is the second to worst entry in this series, except to raise a glass to the mysteries of taste and back away slowly...

domino harvey wrote:So when Rogue Nation brings to the party an undermining twist that comments on the very structure and nature of all of these movies

I only saw it once and my memory is a bit fuzzy but could you elaborate? I'm thinking of rewatching.

There are two ways to phrase it, like you did (second worst), or as I would (fourth good) with only Woo's being downright awful

Thanks for the response domino, I understand what you mean now.

domino harvey wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:02 pm

Rogue Nation spoiler

That if the heroes in these movies are always so good and able to pull off the impossible, why not have the bad guys manipulate them so that their own impenetrability and amazing abilities are used against them in service of the baddies? It's the most novel twist possible in a film like this-- the fact that they're so good at what they do is exactly what helps those who they think they are working against. Plenty of spy movies feature twists that reveal "Oh, this friend is actually an enemy," but none do so at a level that acknowledges and tweaks the genre perimeters like this one does

Maybe you just like Die Hard?

knives wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:01 pm

domino harvey wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:02 pm

Rogue Nation spoiler

That if the heroes in these movies are always so good and able to pull off the impossible, why not have the bad guys manipulate them so that their own impenetrability and amazing abilities are used against them in service of the baddies? It's the most novel twist possible in a film like this-- the fact that they're so good at what they do is exactly what helps those who they think they are working against. Plenty of spy movies feature twists that reveal "Oh, this friend is actually an enemy," but none do so at a level that acknowledges and tweaks the genre perimeters like this one does

Maybe you just like Die Hard?

To be honest, I'm actually having trouble remembering how this conceit even plays out in Rogue Nation.

I'm having the same problem but thought that was just my memory.

I’d be lying if I said this wasn’t probably a good move for all involved, including audiences, but I hope McQuarrie got them to commit to financing his next few projects, whatever he wants them to be.

Jack Reacher 3 and 4?

Hey, as long as he does them. The second one was terrible!

I didn't find the first one to be anything to remember either.

nitin wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:00 am Jack Reacher 3 and 4?

I was thinking more like a Way of the Gun extended universe, but yeah, what Chris said.

Paramount wants to do Jack Reacher as a TV show now, all but citing the fact Cruise wasn't tall enough to play the guy.

flyonthewall2983 wrote:Paramount wants to do Jack Reacher as a TV show now, all but citing the fact Cruise wasn't tall enough to play the guy.

Cruise’s height was not the problem, the movies just weren’t any good.

Discussion of Dermot Mulroney and Dylan McDermott split off here

McQuarrie tweeted a picture of Henry Czerny this morning

flyonthewall2983 wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:25 pm McQuarrie tweeted a picture of Henry Czerny this morning

Excellent, Kittridge was an excellent arsehole of a character.

Hopefully he has more screen time. I just remember him having a few scenes towards the beginning culminating with the one in the restaurant. Between that and his role in Clear And Present Danger he really nailed down the evil bureaucrat cliche for awhile.

I wonder if they gave him Alec Baldwin's part

Spoiler

as Baldwin got killed in Fallout.

Pretty sure he'll be playing his character from the first one