criterionforum.org

Posted: **Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:53 pm**

Sorry, just to clarify, the "region free" sticker was applied by the store (as they do all their region free releases), not by Kino! Apologies for any confusion!

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:03 am**

Mozart wrote:Europeans (non-UK) who are interested in that film and are not 100% informed (unlikethe people here on that forum), import it and the first place they are going to is Amazon.com.

As a non-UK European let me say: I first try to get things from amazon.co.uk - after checking at the Beaver for the best version, of course -, as it's much cheaper to import from the UK, much faster (three days compared to two or four weeks from the US) and there's no customs danger on top of it. But perhaps I'm just 100% informed...

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:10 am**

I can't begin to fathom why anyone in their right mind would pay the prices that the Cinema Store charges, though I suppose they must sell enough to stay in business.

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:16 am**

Rather than repeat anything already expressed more eloquently here, I for one am just jumping in to state that no matter what they put out, I will never buy another Kino release.

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:19 am**

adamhopelies wrote:Sorry, just to clarify, the "region free" sticker was applied by the store (as they do all their region free releases), not by Kino! Apologies for any confusion!

Damn. I was hoping this mystery was finally solved.

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:16 am**

I just hope this doesn't escalate into an all-out U.S./Britain trade war..

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:59 am**

peerpee wrote:
captveg wrote:Again, Kino is gaining NO SALES due to not region coding.
Nonsense.

MichaelB wrote:it would be hard to argue that MoC has lost any actual business over this
Let's discuss the elephant in the room, then.

Let's not pretend that MoC (and the BFI, Kino, etc) don't have global purchasers. Global purchasers who are fans of these respective labels and who perfectly legally purchase our products through a third-party. MoC don't deny they exist, and we don't ignore them.

Just as British people and people from all around the world have been legally purchasing Kino's BATTLESHIP POTEMKIN and THE GENERAL Blu-rays (both region-free) from amazon.com.

This shambolic situation we now find ourselves in with METROPOLIS is what we were trying to avoid all along, and it has only hardened our belief that region-encoding is unfair, unrealistic, misguidedly used, and damaging to the industry on a global level.

If Kino had agreed to region-free (like all their other Blu-rays, and like BATTLESHIP POTEMKIN, which they also licenced from Transit) then everything would be rosy.

We were certainly unhappy with Kino hypocritically stipulating region-encoding in the first place (when all their other Blu-rays are region-free), but for them to then "forget" to encode theirs, releasing tens of thousands into the world with no recall, and hobbling the encoding of ours in the process is shocking.

From our perspective, it's such a catastrophic error, that: a weak apology; promises of region encoding of future pressings (in 2013?); and flippant remarks about "British folk won't be wanting it anyway"; fail to understand the gravity of releasing tens of thousands of region-free discs into the global marketplace.

You have every right to be upset, but I don't see how it's hypocritical for a company to look to protect their territorial region on such a high profile title (in the case of Kino, the US). Seems like a reasonable business decision. Obviously you think they failed to follow-through as a deliberate act to screw you, which I find absurd. Take a step back and look at all the major failures in this industry - it's comical how many mistakes make it out to street discs. (See here for just some examples).

Now, you certainly have some courses of action. You could demand Kino do recalls on the open region releases. You can get your lawyers talking to their lawyers, etc., etc. From the vitriol and "burn em so their children fear us" discourse of these message boards I'd say general public of those that import your product to the US are looking at you guys as angels and Kino as Satan incarnate, so you got that going for you. In any case, it all seems fairly petty to me. People are human, mistakes happen, and there's surely a more cordial way to have a discourse with Kino from MoC/yourself on how to resolve the matter. But maybe that's too sensible to be expected.

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:33 am**

captveg wrote: Take a step back and look at all the major failures in this industry - it's comical how many mistakes make it out to street discs. (See http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/t ... t-to-avoid" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for just some examples).

32 dvd titles out of tens of thousands of problem free titles? Excuse the ignorance of someone who doesn't work in the 'industry', but that seems like a rather low amount.

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:38 am**

I think that list is exclusively Blu-ray - and I don't think the number of BD releases is anywhere close to "tens of thousands".

Also, it doesn't include low-level screwups that were spotted and corrected quickly before the discs achieved wider (or any) circulation.

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:47 am**

Still 32 out of Thousands, and I would argue some of the 'glitches' on that list are minor.

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:56 am**

captveg wrote:...

Consider this from Nick's perspective:

1. Kino breached its contract with MoC. (Never mind the fact that the contract was Kino's idea and that MoC would never have initiated such a contract.)

2. Kino stands to gain thousands of dollars in sales that would have been MoC's if they had been allowed to go region free on this title. MoC was willing to agree to this based on the terms of the contract, but then Kino didn't hold up its end, so understandably, MoC feels wronged.

3. Kino supposedly hopes to have a good relationship with MoC going forward, but has expressed no intention of indemnifying MoC for losses due 100% to Kino's actions. You don't need to be in the industry to know that if you have wronged someone and want to make it right, the burden is on you to apologize to the wronged party's satisfaction. Obviously, Nick is still far from satisfied at this point.

This could all go away if Kino would just bite its tongue and get out its checkbook.

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:29 pm**

I think the best thing to do, now that the contract has been breached and is no longer valid or binding, is for MoC to do a run of a hundred "special edition" region-free Metropolis Blu-rays aimed specifically at the American market. If they announce such a thing soon, it might convince people to wait and not buy the Kino disc. I know that I would happily sign up to pre-order a region-free MoC.

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:46 pm**

Pricing it at £30 each would be a good idea, seeing how the Kino edition is priced in the UK!

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:04 pm**

I don't know whether it has been mentioned before, but the dedicated "Metropolis" page on the Kino site now has the following:

"Please note, Blu-ray release has been moved to November 23" (i.e. the release date of the MoC)

And somewhat further down:

"THIS PRODUCT IS REGION PROTECTED AND WILL NOT BE SHIPPED OUTSIDE OF THE USA AND CANADA
UK Buyers should purchase the Masters of Cinema Edition on DVD or Blu-ray. Other countries should inquire with local DVD/Blu-ray merchants."

Hmmm.... now I only wonder how that set got into that London store on November 12....

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:05 pm**

Kino's press release and official specs for The Black Pirate:

KINO RELEASES NEWLY MASTERED THE BLACK PIRATE (1926), STARRING DOUGLAS FAIRBANKS, ON BLU-RAY

New York, NY - November 11, 2010 - Kino International is proud to release for the first time on Blu-ray a newly mastered edition of Douglas Fairbank's classic swashbuckler film, THE BLACK PIRATE (1926).
Mastered from a 35mm negative, this special Kino edition carefully recreates the authentic palette of two-strip Technicolor (comprised of varying blends of green and orange), so that modern viewers can savor the photography The New York Times praised as "mindful of the paintings of the old masters."

The blu-ray edition of THE BLACK PIRATE is now available with two interchangeable music tracks, including the film's original score composed by Mortimer Wilson and conducted by Robert Israel in 1996; a second organ score, by Lee Erwin, is also available.

As special features, this Kino blu-ray also brings an exclusive audio commentary track by film historian Rudy Behlmer, and the complete "talkie" version of the film (i.e. minus intertitles), with orchestral score and narration by Douglas Fairbanks, Jr. (75 min., B&W). Other special features include 18 minutes of film outtakes, with an audio commentary by Mr. Behlmer, and an extra 29 minutes of outtakes (but without any audio).

Kino's THE BLACK PIRATE blu-ray will be available for prebooking on November 16, 2010, with a SRP of $34.95, with a December 14.
Riding the crest of popularity after his hit films The Three Musketeers (1921), Robin Hood (1922) and The Thief of Bagdad (1924), the silent cinema's greatest adventure hero crowned his accomplishments with THE BLCK PIRATE, a big production shot on 2-strip Technicolor.

The sole survivor of a ship pillaged by buccaneers, Michel (Fairbanks) poses as the mysterious Black Pirate and infiltrates a nest of bandits. He mounts an elaborate ploy to earn their trust, reclaim the ship and rescue a kidnapped princess (Billie Dove). Like a Robert Louis Stevenson adventure come to life, THE BLACK PIRATE ripples with customary intrigue and a rapid succession of brilliantly inventive stunts.

Special Features

· Restored two-strip Technicolor version, mastered in HD
· Original 1926 score by Mortimer Wilson, conducted by Robert Israel (1996)
· Organ score by Lee Erwin
· Audio commentary by film historian Rudy Behlmer
· Complete "talkie" version, minus intertitles, with orchestral score and narration by Douglas Fairbanks, Jr. (75 min., B&W)
· 18 Minutes of outtakes, with commentary by Rudy Behlmer
· 29 Minutes of additional outtakes, courtesy of the Library of Congress
· Photo gallery

U.S. 1926 Color 95 Min. 1.33:1 1920x1080p
Directed by Albert Parker Produced by Douglas Fairbanks
Screenplay by Jack Cunningham Story by Douglas Fairbanks Photographed by
Henry Sharp
With Douglas Fairbanks, Billie Dove, Donald Crisp,
Sam De Grasse, Anders Randolf, Tempe Pigott

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:16 pm**

Tommaso wrote:I don't know whether it has been mentioned before, but the dedicated "Metropolis" page on the Kino site now has the following:

"Please note, Blu-ray release has been moved to November 23" (i.e. the release date of the MoC)

And somewhat further down:

"THIS PRODUCT IS REGION PROTECTED AND WILL NOT BE SHIPPED OUTSIDE OF THE USA AND CANADA
UK Buyers should purchase the Masters of Cinema Edition on DVD or Blu-ray. Other countries should inquire with local DVD/Blu-ray merchants."

Hmmm.... now I only wonder how that set got into that London store on November 12....

Both DVDwordusa and Movietyme are also already selling it in the UK right now. It's not just The Cinema Store.

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:48 pm**

The cinema store is well known to London DVD buyers as a shop that sells DVD's a few days before their release date.

They are also an import specialist, so they would stock the Kino regardless of the MoC or region coding.

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:41 pm**

swo17 wrote:
captveg wrote:...
Consider this from Nick's perspective

I did. Which is why I said they have the right to be upset and get their lawyers on the phone. But feeding (intentionally or not) the mob-with-torches internets mentality seems petty to me.

Duncan Hopper wrote:Still 32 out of Thousands, and I would argue some of the 'glitches' on that list are minor.

The region coding glitch is, by all respects, a minor programming error, if one goes by percentage of consumers affected. Something like the 3-4 second audio dropout on Led Zeppelin is much, MUCH more egregious, but it was missed due to particular human negligence.

My point was not that it happened on 20% of releases. My point was that it happens often enough to be understood as more common than is desirable, whether that's .1% or 1-4%.

Of course, this doesn't even cover known issues that are seen as "minor" and "approved as is" despite being called out in QC. You'd be shocked what gets passed in order to meet a costly replication date.

Posted: **Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:02 pm**

I don't believe anyone outside the BFI or the authoring house has spotted the authoring glitch on the BFI's Jan Švankmajer set yet - which vindicates my decision not to re-author when it was spotted at the last possible moment between production of the checkdiscs and the final print run.

(Those who have the set needn't panic: it only kicks in in the unlikely event of you clicking 'Play All' on the extras disc, and it's easily remedied - when one of the documentaries starts playing without subtitles, simply switch them on via the remote. In fact, even if anyone had spotted it, there's every chance they wouldn't have realised that it was an authoring error in the first place.)

Posted: **Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:59 pm**

Posted today on Kino's Facebook page:

Donald Krim, Kino wrote:To the DVD and Blu-Ray Community:

Our release of the newly restored METROPOLIS streets today, November 16th, on DVD and next Tuesday, November 23rd, on Blu-Ray.

By license and according to our own instructions, these discs should be encoded for Region 1 (DVD) and Region A (Blu-Ray) only. Due to a misunderstanding with our authoring house, the masters for the initial replication of both the DVD and Blu-ray editions were made region-free.

This was unintentional and we apologize to the local distributors in other territories that might be affected. We have no wish to see the US version sold abroad -- it is contrary to our standard practices and intent and we have corrected this issue going forward.

New printing masters for both the DVD and Blu-Ray editions have been made and, as of last Friday, November 12th, were in place at our duplicators. Every Kino DVD and Blu-Ray of METROPOLIS manufactured from yesterday (November 15th) on will be properly encoded for Region 1 (DVD) and Region A (Blu-Ray) only. Packaging will be corrected when the current stock runs out.

We encourage all foreign cinephiles and collectors to support their local distributor's editions by purchasing the proper region coded and PAL standard or Blu-Ray version appropriate for their territory, rather than our NTSC edition.

Sincerely,

Donald Krim
President, Kino International Corp.
Co-President, Kino Lorber, Inc

If there were any Region B or C Facebookers who were unaware that Kino's product was released region-free, they're now fully informed.

Posted: **Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:14 pm**

At least that gives the impression that if you import the disc into Region B or C, there's no way to know whether you'll get a region-free or a region A-locked copy. Even though in reality, you're probably sure to get a region-free copy for the next several months at least.

Or maybe there's the answer--don't recall the region-free copies but dilute the market with another pressing of region A-locked copies. Have all retailers treat them equally as though they were all region A-locked. (And get UK shops that specialize in imports to stop advertising the Kino as region free.) I would think that people in Regions B and C would be unlikely to take a chance on a high priced import item that isn't guaranteed to be region free.

Posted: **Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:13 pm**

fiddlesticks wrote:If there were any Region B or C Facebookers who were unaware that Kino's product was released region-free, they're now fully informed.

Enraged internet user: "How DARE Kino release this disc Region Free!!! I demand they correct this and own up to their mistake IMMEDIATELY!"

*Kino corrects problem and owns up to mistake*

Enraged internet user: "How DARE Kino publicly state they made this mistake! I demand they shut the hell up and stop informing everyone that their first pressings are Region Free IMMEDIATELY!!!"

Some people are impossible...

Posted: **Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:15 pm**

When did anyone demand they 'correct this and own up to their mistake'? It seemed like the general consensus was that neither of those would actually rectify the situation.

Posted: **Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:23 pm**

They made a major fuck-up, and then they set out to correct it as best as they possibly could, even if some damage couldn't be undone. But what more should they do than they haven't done yet? Do you want them to send MoC a cheque for 10.000 Pounds or something? For selling 20 discs in two or three UK shops who sold them before the release date? And as said before, those buyers were getting the lesser product anyhow.

Posted: **Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:42 pm**

](*,)

Hey, I finally found a use for this emoticon!

The issue isn't, and never has been, primarily about Kino selling their discs overseas. The initial hypocrisy was in their insisting on region coding only in this instance, when it was clear they had the inferior product and wanted to protect the US market for themselves. Kino are completely laissez-faire about region-free BluRays when it works in their favour. The non-coding of their own disc is simply the icing on the cake, or the dead rat at the bottom of the bucket, and provides very strong corroboration of their cynicism, which was already there in plain sight from the outset. Whether or not the coding of the disc was an accident, an 'accident', or an Orchestrated Conspiracy that Goes Right Up to the President of the United States of America only has bearing on the degree of the hypocrisy and cynicism of their actions.

criterionforum.org

Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino

Re: Kino