criterionforum.org

Posted: **Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:28 am**

ianthemovie wrote:
Spoiler
Lisa's mother demonstrates her talent for impersonation with her actor friends over dinner

I don't know why you spoilered that, but

Spoiler

since J. Smith-Cameron, who plays the mother, is also Lonergan's wife, I doubt that scene would ever have been a candidate for the cutting-room floor. He probably loves her impersonations and wanted one of them in the movie.

Posted: **Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:44 am**

Yeah, I figured as much. That scene seemed to me like a moment where Lonergan saw an opportunity to showcase his wife's ability to do that (in fact I seem to remember reading somewhere that he admitted as much, though I could be wrong.) I guess it's not a spoiler per se but I figured I'd err on the side of caution in tagging it.

Posted: **Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:20 am**

Matt wrote:
mfunk9786 wrote:
Spoiler
Your ending suggestion would have been far too heavy-handed considering what the rest of the film had shown us
I dunno.
Spoiler
If I'm going to be teased with an opera metaphor for 3 hours, I feel owed a proper operatic ending. Madame Butterfly cuts her own throat. Norma throws herself on a burning pyre. Don Giovanni gets dragged into Hell. The film is a melodrama and it ought to own it instead of just turning off the motor at the end.

mfunk9786 wrote:The film wasn't an epic melodrama - Lisa's interpretation of her own events was.
Then the film needs to be better at at articulating this, which is why I think it would benefit immensely from cutting all the scenes that can't conceivably be from her point of view.

wow...you posted almost verbatim what I said to my wife after it was over tonight re: the operatic metaphor tease. I ended up renting it from Redbox since I wanted to see this badly, even if in truncated form. I must confess that it left me with little desire to sit through an even longer version, and i'm rather confused by the choice to totally alter the

Spoiler

scene at the end where he tells Damon and the female teacher she had an abortion - which was apparently true, but i almost rewound the film to see if I somehow missed that. It really put me off the entire thing as it seemed like such an uncharacteristic shift from narcissism into pathological lying and manipulation. Lisa is a pretty consistent twit throughout the film, but never a liar. To omit all the references to that event in order to create speculation that she is lying went against the entire grain of the film for me.

As for the ending itself, I suppose we are to suppose that she finally "got it?" As Matt noted, that scene just felt false as well.

I don't know, maybe my impression will change with time - it wouldn't be the first time it's happened - but I just fail to see why this has garnered so much praise. I loved YCCOM and have looked forward to this for years...but it was all just so, i don't know, unlikable. Now I don't require nice people to enjoy a film, but the way Lisa's shrill narcissism and faux intellectual spiels relentlessly carried on caused it all to ring more and more false to me. I especially didn't buy Matt Damon's role...Is he just a bumpkin from Indiana who gets taken advantage of by the big city kids? That entire side plot seemed entirely too forced.

I hesitate to say I disliked the film, the scene with Janney was incredibly intense and the acting was generally superb. But in the end the film's failures lie in the writing for me. There's so much angst and portent and so little pay off that I ended up more frustrated than moved.

Posted: **Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:42 am**

HistoryProf wrote: I ended up renting it from Redbox since I wanted to see this badly, even if in truncated form. I must confess that it left me with little desire to sit through an even longer version, and i'm rather confused by the choice to totally alter the
Spoiler
scene at the end where she tells Damon and the female teacher she had an abortion - which was apparently true, but i almost rewound the film to see if I somehow missed that. It really put me off the entire thing as it seemed like such an uncharacteristic shift from narcissism into pathological lying and manipulation. Lisa is a pretty consistent twit throughout the film, but never a liar. To omit all the references to that event in order to create speculation that she is lying went against the entire grain of the film for me.

As for the ending itself, I suppose we are to suppose that she finally "got it?" As Matt noted, that scene just felt false as well.

I had a pretty different reaction to her late declaration.
I didn't doubt it was true, but was startled at how she blurts it out. So I felt that she was becoming unhinged and that such unpleasantness had probably pushed her over the edge (or further in that direction).

Spoiler

The early scene where she loses her virginity, plus her dalliance with Damon, made it entirely believable that she became pregnant. But when she confronts Damon, I was thinking that it was likely/possibly not his, and that probably she didn't know either. She's lashing out, intentionally confronting/embarrassing him for his behavior and to vent her anger, while her world is getting more and more unstable.

One thing that did confuse me was the female accompanying Damon. I thought it was maybe another student, but then decided she looked older, so I assumed it was probably another teacher. Then I started wondering if we met this teacher before and I just didn't recall. So during a pretty key scene, my mind was trying to identify an apparently random new character. I guess using a female student or young teacher might have provoked some jealousy/anger in Lisa leading to her inappropriate outburst, but if they'd used a slightly older female it would have been more clear to me. I guess after processing it a bit, I had some residual doubt that maybe she was just being histrionic and that it hadn't occurred. But for me that was a minor doubt that crept in late. Earlier events, the tone of the film and her character all had me persuaded that it was true.

As for the stridency and argumentation, it seemed the film was trying to capture the solipsism and righteousness of adolescence. I liked the film a good deal and plan to watch the director's cut, though the extra scenes I've seen mention don't seem important or necessary to me. The rhythmic changes and sound cues sound very interesting however.
Question: is Blu Ray the only way the director's cut has been released?
If so, I won't be seeing it ...

Posted: **Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:04 am**

Other way around -- director's cut is only on SD, theatrical on Blu.

Posted: **Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:07 pm**

The director's cut is on SD, but it's only available packaged with the Blu-Ray.

Posted: **Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:50 pm**

ianthemovie wrote:The director's cut is on SD, but it's only available packaged with the Blu-Ray.

...except in the UK, where the SD director's cut is all you get.

Posted: **Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:49 pm**

Oh. Here in China, the theatrical cut is on SD.
A pirated version of the "Rental Exclusive" as it says on the cover..

There's also the Blu with both versions.

So the BR package has the director's cut on SD??
If so, I might nab it.
But it's just one disc.
Confusing here.
I'm not even sure the Blu available here will have the director's cut.

Uh, back to normal dvd news ....

Posted: **Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:08 pm**

There was a Amazon exclusive Blu that included the director's cut on SD, but it seems they may have ran out of their exclusive run (hence why it's selling for $999 at the moment). It seems the combo will be available via other retailers in October, and Amazon may well get more copies to sell before then.

Posted: **Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:20 pm**

Amazon's still out of stock, but you can at least place an order from them now for $27.99, and they'll ship you a copy when it becomes available (maybe not until October).

Posted: **Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:12 am**

If anyone wants it now, you can always pay a just a little bit extra to import it from Amazon.ca.

Posted: **Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:31 am**

Fierias wrote:If anyone wants it now, you can always pay a just a little bit extra to import it from Amazon.ca.

Was going to do exactly that, but according to posters on Blu-Ray.com the Canadian release doesn't have the extended cut on the DVD.

Posted: **Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:12 pm**

Well, the workaround for that is to import the UK DVD, as it only has the extended cut. But I agree that it seems a bit convoluted and expensive.

Posted: **Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:26 pm**

My theory is that it's a new form of meta-performance art in which first post-production and now access to the film Margaret replicates the frustrations and injustices the heroine of the film experiences. Everything is designed to be difficult and emotional and confusing so that you can experience the heroine's catharsis when you finally get to watch both versions ...

Posted: **Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:37 pm**

Lemmy Caution wrote:My theory is that it's a new form of meta-performance art in which first post-production and now access to the film Margaret replicates the frustrations and injustices the heroine of the film experiences. Everything is designed to be difficult and emotional and confusing so that you can experience the heroine's catharsis when you finally get to watch both versions ...

Absolutely, because to extend your metaphor, the best solution is obvious, yet impossible for most teenagers to accept or understand:

Wait two months.

Posted: **Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:51 pm**

Posted: **Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:12 pm**

This idea is actually contained within the film itself. Lonergan is definitely holding a mirror up to those who demand immediate gratification. Note how many characters will cut off each other in mid-sentence by demanding to hear what they want to hear. Lisa can't really be bothered with literature, drama or films because they require too much time investment. Part of what makes the ending so effective is that Lisa allows herself to slow down long enough for the opera to affect her, which opens up a well of emotions.

Posted: **Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:12 pm**

Amazon wrote:In stock on August 27, 2012.

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:27 am**

Does anybody know if a Region B Blu-ray is in the works? According to the BVA page it's been planned, but "pulled from schedule". Some vendors seem to list it (probably on the basis of pre-release information), for example this Danish one. If the information on that site is correct, it is/will be/would've been a separate release of the theatrical cut and not a HD version of the longer one.

Posted: **Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:57 pm**

Lemmy Caution wrote:One thing that did confuse me was the female accompanying Damon. I thought it was maybe another student, but then decided she looked older, so I assumed it was probably another teacher. Then I started wondering if we met this teacher before and I just didn't recall. So during a pretty key scene, my mind was trying to identify an apparently random new character. I guess using a female student or young teacher might have provoked some jealousy/anger in Lisa leading to her inappropriate outburst, but if they'd used a slightly older female it would have been more clear to me. I guess after processing it a bit, I had some residual doubt that maybe she was just being histrionic and that it hadn't occurred. But for me that was a minor doubt that crept in late. Earlier events, the tone of the film and her character all had me persuaded that it was true.

We were introduced to the female gym teacher in a brief scene which seems to indicate that she's popular with the male students.

Spoiler

I saw the short version where the confrontation with Damon is ambiguous at best. I would argue that in the short version it's more likely that she was just making it up, because there was no reason to think otherwise. The rest of Lisa's uncoming is fairly explicitly shown, so why skip this major plot point? Furthermore her confrontation is driven by jealousy of the older woman, and her other emotional turmoil. The excision of the teen pregnancy storyline seems like a wise choice.

Really enjoyed the movie, though Lisa (and almost everybody else) is thoroughly insufferable. Shades of Pialat or Cassavettes or something like that. If I had any criticism it's that despite everything feeling very "true", I don't really feel like there was much of a take-away revelation for the viewer. It all seems rather obvious, though honest. I think my favorite parts were the little bits with the burnt-out cop, the slimy lawyer's machinations, and the step mom's "tell her I say hi". Also, I immediately felt like I was in Manhattan, without unnecessary exposition. Imperfect, but impressive nonetheless. This is the film Lena Dunham wishes she could make.

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:30 pm**

I revisited this film because Foxconnect is now offering it for $6.50 (no tax and possible free shipping) during its flash sale, which ends today. A really good deal, when I thought about getting this months ago, I couldn't find it for less than $20 new.

Problem with this set is that the theatrical version is on the Blu-Ray disc while the substantially longer extended cut is only on a DVD. I never bought this set, I initially rented it from a library and have only watched it on an old CRT television set (albeit one with a very big screen). I saw the extended cut first, then tried the theatrical cut much later. I immediately noticed that a lot of elements I liked about the extended cut were gone from the theatrical cut - I preferred the opera recordings instead of the new score (tied up thematic elements better), I missed the few scenes with the friend she jerked around, the abortion clinic sequence felt essential (didn't like what its omission did to the last scene with Matt Damon), and what he did with 'peripheral' dialogue was sorely missed. So I vastly prefer the extended cut.

I considered buying the set just to have a physical copy of it, so I checked out a friend's copy - like myself, he's got an HDTV and an Oppo Blu-Ray player that up-samples SD images. This was the first time that I watched the extended cut DVD on a good, up-to-date set-up and it's a massive disappointment, it really looks like shit. I'm not surprised because Fox obviously wanted to spend as little as possible to put this out, so I'm guessing they just grabbed the best source available of the extended cut. Since it was never seriously considered for theatrical exhibition, I don't think a DCP, much less a 35mm print, was ever struck for it, so I'm guessing all they really had were SD video copies made for the filmmakers and producers involved, something they can just watch at home or at the office as they continued to work on (or argue over) the film. It could've been a lot worse - just check out the outtakes on Criterion's The Thin Red Line set - but still, this is pretty crummy, like a blow-up of an SD YouTube upload.

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:08 pm**

I don't have my copy of the UK edition to hand right now, but I remember it looking fine - and it's also the extended cut.

It's certainly far better than "an SD blowup of a YouTube upload", but I can never tell whether these comments are hyperbole or a literal description.

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:37 pm**

I wasn't being hyperbolic, it really does look like a YouTube upload. Not in "motion" (it doesn't stutter like it's missing frames), but in detail and resolution, absolutely. Things either look like mush or you have jagged edges. (I recall this being immediately apparent on the long shot of those buildings across Central Park, with the fence in the foreground.) This is on a 55" LED HDTV as I was standing four feet from it. At first I thought the DVD wasn't being up-sampled, but I checked and it was. I popped in the BFI Blu-Ray of The Killing of a Chinese Bookie just to check that out too, and there was nothing wrong with the TV, Margaret on the extended cut just looked that bad. I don't think the UK DVD would be a different transfer....to me, it really looks that bad.

Posted: **Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:49 am**

I didn't make it along but The Astor theatre in Melbourne did a theatrical showing of the extended edition - which would definitely have been DCP or 35mm.

Posted: **Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:12 am**

R0lf wrote:I didn't make it along but The Astor theatre in Melbourne did a theatrical showing of the extended edition - which would definitely have been DCP or 35mm.

You sure about that? In New York they did a screening of the Extended Cut at the Film Society of Lincoln Center with Lonergan and cast in attendance, and it was projected from the DVD. I doubt any other venue would have access to a better print.

criterionforum.org

Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

Re: Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)