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Posted: **Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:00 pm**

justeleblanc wrote:Rita Hayworth is entirely possible... but my mind went to a different place.

Robin + Bird + Wig.... could it be The Birdcage?

That's an even bigger reach than the twitter guess for Hedwig and the Angry Inch.

Posted: **Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:31 pm**

If the bird looked peeved, I'd like the answer being Head Wig and the Angry Finch ...

Posted: **Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:53 pm**

swo17 wrote:
EricJ wrote:Case in point, are the flood of running Midnight Cowboy in-jokes REALLY coming from people who still don't get it?
If that clue really was for Il sorpasso then it was the worst clue of all time, as evidenced by the fact that it didn't even retroactively occur to anyone as the possible answer until like a year after the fact.

Okay, fill in the new guy: HOW on EARTH was the, quote-fingers, "Il Sorpasso clue" not the

Spoiler

terminally ailing

Ratzo?

Posted: **Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:57 pm**

EricJ wrote:
swo17 wrote:
EricJ wrote:Case in point, are the flood of running Midnight Cowboy in-jokes REALLY coming from people who still don't get it?
If that clue really was for Il sorpasso then it was the worst clue of all time, as evidenced by the fact that it didn't even retroactively occur to anyone as the possible answer until like a year after the fact.
Okay, fill in the new guy: HOW on EARTH was the, quote-fingers, "Il Sorpasso clue" not the
Spoiler
terminally ailing
Ratzo?

Ill sore possu' -- And yes, those who believe the clue for this isn't clearly Midnight Cowboy really think that's what it was saying.

Posted: **Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:00 pm**

Maybe this thread needs to self destruct 2 hours after the first guess.

(Feel free to fill in the visual)

Posted: **Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:03 pm**

Or locked once it's been obviously solved.

Posted: **Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:15 pm**

FrauBlucher wrote:Maybe this thread needs to self destruct 2 hours after the first guess.

(Feel free to fill in the visual)

Posted: **Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:12 pm**

Another option... Bye Bye Birdie.

Bird with Ann-Margret hair

Posted: **Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:14 pm**

giovannii84 wrote:Another option... Bye Bye Birdie.

Bird with Ann-Margret hair

Twilight Time, so no.

Posted: **Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:30 pm**

domino harvey wrote:

Do you happen to know off hand which episode that's from? Sure wish Criterion were releasing a complete VM on Blu-ray...

Posted: **Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:52 pm**

I think the newsletters just appeal to the puzzlers/jumblers amongst our crowd. Its like when TCM decided to add a crossword puzzle to their monthly magazine. I say let people have their fun (and sometimes it could lead to a better result - as we could've called it a day at Red Beard). I think these problems will only continue as the clues aren't generally getting easier/clearer and sometimes not solved correctly until something gets announced (Coat Unknown). Its like this year's New Years clue - where we all just sorta scratched our heads and gave up on most of the clues.

As for the whole Midnight Cowboy vs Sorpasso debacle: Didn't Moe (who was right on Big Chill/Tootsie/etc) confirm that Midnight Cowboy was in the works? Besides, what with the MGM re-release deal (and things like The Graduate being forthcoming), it isn't beyond scope to imagine that Midnight Cowboy wouldn't be pursued. Sometimes these clues takes years to materialize (Grey Gardens, Y tu Mama Tambien, Eraserhead, etc).

Posted: **Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:08 pm**

swo17 wrote:
EricJ wrote:Case in point, are the flood of running Midnight Cowboy in-jokes REALLY coming from people who still don't get it?
If that clue really was for Il sorpasso then it was the worst clue of all time, as evidenced by the fact that it didn't even retroactively occur to anyone as the possible answer until like a year after the fact.

Worst or best? We've had a lot more clues of this style, it seems, since they defeated us with the ill sore possum clue. It seems as though the Mulholland drive esque clues are less common.

the first clue I remember of the Ill sore possum variety was lean cow herd, which took a long time to solve as well.

Posted: **Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:25 pm**

As hard as some past clues were I wish they were still all like that. I have only guessed one correctly on my own and that was for Limelight but even I thought that was just too easy and uninspired.

Posted: **Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:30 pm**

movielocke wrote:
swo17 wrote:If that clue really was for Il sorpasso then it was the worst clue of all time, as evidenced by the fact that it didn't even retroactively occur to anyone as the possible answer until like a year after the fact.
Worst or best? We've had a lot more clues of this style, it seems, since they defeated us with the ill sore possum clue. It seems as though the Mulholland drive esque clues are less common.

the first clue I remember of the Ill sore possum variety was lean cow herd, which took a long time to solve as well.

A good clue will take a few minutes to figure out. Some take only a few seconds (e.g. Ace in the Hole). These clues are bad. "Lean cow herd" took the better part of a day for someone to finally solve. The choice of words for the pun was both economical and homophonic. This was probably the best clue they had ever come up with.

Now let's look at "ill sore possum." The first two words are somewhat redundant and only fit in hindsight--no one would have naturally thought based on that image to string those two words together in that order. And then the third word only fits to the extent that you ignore the sound that half of its letters make. If Criterion hadn't subsequently announced Il sorpasso, no one in a million years would have ever guessed that that was the answer. That makes it no better of a clue than if Criterion had simply said "In a couple of months we will announce a '60s movie."

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:42 am**

I still can't believe how bad the ill sore possum clue was. Did they really not think people would look at it and think "Rat So Sick" and leap to Ratzo Rizzo? I halfway still believe it is a clue for Midnight Cowboy and it's just horrendously delayed.

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:17 am**

Now that we all got *that* out of our systems =D

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:42 am**

EddieLarkin wrote:
domino harvey wrote:
Do you happen to know off hand which episode that's from? Sure wish Criterion were releasing a complete VM on Blu-ray...

"Lord of the Pi's"

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:11 am**

Everybody has been looking at the Il Sorpasso clue backwards. It was simply an obscure joke that failed as a newsletter clue because of its obscurity.

If you think about the process, the artist will be given a list of forthcoming releases slated for announcement three months out and be tasked with creating a newsletter clue for one of them. He looks at the list, sees the title Il Sorpasso and thinks "Wow! Can I ever make a silly pun out of that!" And he did. It doesn't matter that it was an obscure film that I had never heard of (nor anyone else here, it seems.) He got inspired, drew it, it got added to the newsletter, and everybody guessed wrong because their wrong guess was less obscure than the film that was hinted at.

It's that simple. Can we finally put this to rest?

(This doesn't mean Midnight Cowboy will not be eventually be released. It just means this wasn't a clue for it.)

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:17 am**

No, because it was a clue for Midnight Cowboy

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:27 am**

domino harvey wrote:No, because it was a clue for Midnight Cowboy

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:49 am**

It's not that obscure of a film. I had seen it. Plenty others here had as well. It had recently been restored and had been touted for such. But even if the very first thing you saw after watching the film was the drawing of that ailing rodent, you'd still never make the connection without someone first pointing it out to you.

I'm not saying that the clue definitely wasn't for Il sorpasso, just that in this country you are innocent until proven guilty, and until Jason Polan confesses to such a crime, I will continue to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:09 am**

The bird is definitely not supposed to be a robin; look at that finch-like bill. Canaries are in the finch family because of this (and also because they're passerines, i.e. three toes forward and one toe backward, even though that applies to like more than half of all bird species...the drawing shows the three toes forward, and holy Jesus that was likely not intended to reflect the bird is a passerine but I'm pointing it out anyway), and with no darker shades or distinct markings drawn into the plumage, it's probably intended to be a canary. All signs point to Gilda.

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:58 am**

swo17 wrote:I'm not saying that the clue definitely wasn't for Il sorpasso, just that in this country you are innocent until proven guilty, and until Jason Polan confesses to such a crime, I will continue to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Or it can be proven in a court of law with the burden of proof provided by the prosecution. (Come on, we've all seen either/or/both 12 Angry Men and Anatomy of a Murder =D )

In the mean time, he's safe from Shawshank. Though he would miss the 1949 weekly showings of ... Gilda.

*Now* can we consider both that *and* the recent clue discussion closed? =D

(P.S. If I really wanted to be a short-sighted smart-ass, I would have suggested the clue pointed to a Blu-ray upgrade of Berlin Alexanderplatz. Remember, if I wanted to be a short-sighted smart-ass and therefore unable to refute my own claim =] )

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:40 pm**

swo17 wrote:It's not that obscure of a film. I had seen it. Plenty others here had as well. It had recently been restored and had been touted for such. But even if the very first thing you saw after watching the film was the drawing of that ailing rodent, you'd still never make the connection without someone first pointing it out to you.

And again, they're not ALL puns--A cult-iconic movie will get a cult icon.
Chaplin in a chicken suit wasn't a pun for "The Gold Rush" (we didn't get little 24K ingots running in sneakers), a wind-up diver wasn't a pun for "Tie Me Up/Down" (although the tie was), if they wanted to do a New Year's pun for "The Brood", they'd have used chicks instead, and remember how many posters were militantly adamant that a panther woman meant the Schrader "Cat People"? (Well, they were on BR.com, anyway.)

Even if enough people recognized a cart vendor to name...whatever that cart vendor movie was, it's a fair assumption to assume more Smart People will have seen a coughing Dustin Hoffman at some point in their art-film experience than have seen an Italian road-trip movie.
Gotta admit, I find the puns too easy.

Posted: **Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:24 am**

CSM126 wrote:
giovannii84 wrote:Another option... Bye Bye Birdie.

Bird with Ann-Margret hair
Twilight Time, so no.

Twilight Time's release came out in August 2012, so their 3 year licence would have expired.
To my knowledge neither Twilight or Sony have announced a rerelease, so it's a possibility.

Would love for this to be a double clue:
- Gilda
- Bye Bye Birdie

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