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Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:04 pm
by FrauBlucher
Beaver
A few sections affected by severe decay were replaced with interpositive materials conserved by Cineteca Nazionale.
separate
strangely all 4 digital editions in this comparison seem to have different color schemes
Fixed
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:07 pm
by brundlefly
Adapting the ol' "if you don't like the weather, just wait five minutes" to the color scheme could be one way to mitigate objection.
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:41 pm
by Drucker
FrauBlucher wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:04 pm
Beaver
A few sections affected by severe decay were replaced with interpositive materials conserved by Cineteca Nazionale.
strangely all 4 digital editions in this comparison seem to have different color schemes
I misread this as thinking Juliet was taking from 4 different sources and all of those within the new restoration have different color schemes. #-o
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:43 pm
by brundlefly
Drucker wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:41 pm
I misread this as thinking Juliet was taking from 4 different sources and all of those within the new restoration have different color schemes. #-o
Same here. I guess instead you can choose what color you'd prefer Masina's bonnet to be and order accordingly.
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:49 pm
by FrauBlucher
Drucker wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:41 pm
FrauBlucher wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:04 pm
Beaver
A few sections affected by severe decay were replaced with interpositive materials conserved by Cineteca Nazionale.
sorry, separate quotes
strangely all 4 digital editions in this comparison seem to have different color schemes
I misread this as thinking Juliet was taking from 4 different sources and all of those within the new restoration have different color schemes. #-o
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:46 am
by dwk
Blutarsky wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:03 pm
The new
Juliet of the Spirits transfer looks noticeably lighter and has hints of teal/yellow per DVDBeaver
Looking at Beav's caps (insert usual caveat about their reliability), the criterion disc looks much more pink than teal or yellow to me. (I imagine if this was yellow or teal leaning, the title card would appear more green and the not purple it appears to be.)
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:50 pm
by therewillbeblus
Not an answer of much value, but this is Mulvaney's response to my question about possible individual releases (a la the Bergman set) coming forth from this box:
The 14 Fellini films that are on the upcoming ESSENTIAL FELLINI box set could possibly be individually released or re-released in the future on Blu-ray. This is not a guarantee, but it's possible, and if it did happen, it likely would be some time after the box set is released.
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:53 pm
by yoloswegmaster
Also, important to note is that Criterion will be releasing the original 145 minute version of 'Juliet of the Spirits'. I believe that this is the first time that this version has been released on blu.
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:33 pm
by therewillbeblus
yoloswegmaster wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:53 pm
Also, important to note is that Criterion will be releasing the original 145 minute version of 'Juliet of the Spirits'. I believe that this is the first time that this version has been released on blu.
Goddamn it, I don't want to get this whole set for that one film, but my arm's getting twisted by the day
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:17 pm
by Big Ben
What is the difference between the versions?
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:39 am
by mteller
Boy that's making it tempting for me too. Especially since I imagine Juliet would be low-priority for a separate release.
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:08 am
by therewillbeblus
I wouldn't think so. Sure, it makes sense for Nights of Cabiria, and maybe La Strada or I Vitelloni, to be prioritized- but if they're releasing the original version, I have to imagine that'd bump it. Someone at Criterion clearly likes the self-indulgent backhalf of his oeuvre, so why not pick the best of the lot?
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:22 pm
by otis
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:39 am
by TheKieslowskiHaze
More vibrant colors than Criterion's 2011 release, but looks kinda blown out.
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:45 am
by therewillbeblus
Call the teal police
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:51 am
by J M Powell
That Amarcord transfer is a definite downgrade from the previous Criterion blu.
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:43 am
by tenia
J M Powell wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:51 amThat Amarcord transfer is a definite downgrade from the previous Criterion blu.
Actually, only in the color scheme, but outside of this, the older disc really looks dated in comparison. Just look at the captures 5 and 6 for instance.
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:24 pm
by Randall Maysin
If only there were such a thing....!
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:03 pm
by black&huge
tenia wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:43 am
J M Powell wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:51 amThat Amarcord transfer is a definite downgrade from the previous Criterion blu.
Actually, only in the color scheme, but outside of this, the older disc really looks dated in comparison. Just look at the captures 5 and 6 for instance.
Why do the dark areas look saturated or oddly black in the new resto? I was actually thinking of picking up the older disc while the B&N sale is going for the colors even though I got this set preordered.
Specifically speaking of the third pic/set of comparisons with the old man (I think it's the Grandpa or the father in the film?) the darkness of his suit jacket looks very odd to me.
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:09 pm
by tenia
black&huge wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:03 pmWhy do the dark areas look saturated or oddly black in the new resto? I was actually thinking of picking up the older disc while the B&N sale is going for the colors even though I got this set preordered. Specifically speaking of the third pic/set of comparisons with the old man (I think it's the Grandpa or the father in the film?) the darkness of his suit jacket looks very odd to me.
Because it's both crushed AND slightly colored, giving it a weird colored hue, would be my guess (because that's the issue I usually have with those).
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:15 pm
by black&huge
Ah! crushing. perhaps that was the word I was looking for. Thanks Tenia yeah I think it looks good overall just the dark areas it looks like someone spilled black coffee on the print. Well seeing it in motion hopefully might ease some of the oddness otherwise the older disc is still in the cards.
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:32 am
by tenia
I can't say if it's bothering in motion though I'm usually more bothered by the elevated black levels in quite dark scenes, because the whole picture then usually looks like it has a veil on it. It's dull, lacks depth, and since the dark-greys (rathen than blacks) are flat and actually don't have any shadow details, that's really where it makes the matter worst. However, when only a part of the screen is concerned (like here on this Amarcord cap), I'm less bothered, it doesn't look as weird as when it's, say, a night shot.
Here however, unlike B&W movies, these areas are also slightly colored (it's usually yellow/green for Ritrovata, like on some gialli released by Arrow - see for instance The Bloodstained Butterfly), so it adds another weird effect to the darker areas.
This being written and taking into account Beaver's approximation when it comes to screencapturing, some of those caps look very bad but on the other hand, the older disc looks very dated both in texture and grading. If only the grading of the new restoration hadn't been handled this way, it would be an undeniable upgrade.
Side note : I saw last Fall a 35mm archive copy of La classe operaia va in paradiso and while it was indeed quite yellow, whites were white and blacks were black, unlike what Ritrovata (or Eclair and sometimes Digimages-Hiventy) is doing. I also saw a 35mm copy of Mimic and the BDs also don't have the nuanced grading the copy had, but rather some kind of more blanket-y tint. I think both sum up quite well the issue I have with how those labs are grading their restorations nowadays (on top of how they're harmonising color gradings of hundreds of movies).
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:31 pm
by J M Powell
tenia wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:43 am
J M Powell wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:51 amThat Amarcord transfer is a definite downgrade from the previous Criterion blu.
Actually, only in the color scheme, but outside of this, the older disc really looks dated in comparison. Just look at the captures 5 and 6 for instance.
I'm looking, but I'm not seeing what you're seeing. To me the crushed blacks look very bad on the new transfer, and that has a much more pronounced negative effect than the relatively minor gain in detail from sharpness.
For example, there's a tad more detail in the brickwork of capture #6 in the new transfer, but in capture #5 the furs are a blob and the red dress blends right into the black fur in the new transfer; there's a lot more detail in the old transfer. (The new transfer is mislabeled "2012" on capture #6 but I'm certain that's a typo.)
Factor in the lousy color scheme, and to me the new one looks very bad in comparison to the old.
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:30 pm
by dwk
Re: Essential Fellini
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:57 pm
by tenia
J M Powell wrote:I'm looking, but I'm not seeing what you're seeing. To me the crushed blacks look very bad on the new transfer, and that has a much more pronounced negative effect than the relatively minor gain in detail from sharpness.
For example, there's a tad more detail in the brickwork of capture #6 in the new transfer, but in capture #5 the furs are a blob and the red dress blends right into the black fur in the new transfer; there's a lot more detail in the old transfer.
It's not a minor gain in sharpness, it's a quite typical gap between some work performed more than a decade ago on a less efficient film scanner (Spirit Datacine) and an intermediate source (35mm IP) vs a much more efficient scan (4K Arriscan) of the OCN. The older disc has the typical aspect of an older HD master, with thick grain and a lack of very fine texturing of the picture (and probably some sharpening). The new restoration doesn't have this issue and instead has the usual texture and high frequencies of a brand new 4k restoration of the OCN made on an Arriscan. I mean : there is the quality coming from the scan and the restoration work, but there is what is coming from the grading itself, and these are different things with different impacts and different picture "markers".
I'd have to check in motion but it's also fairly likely the older disc has recurring wobble of the frame while the newer restoration is extremely likely to be perfectly stable because of the pin-registered scan vs edge-guided Telecine.
Also, while the newer color grading introduces the issues you're mentioning (which don't have to do with the overall definition of the picture now but with crushing details), the older disc certainly has a grading of its era, especially how it's handling contrast overall. If Lee Kline was to grade the new scan, it certainly wouldn't handle highlights and darker areas the same way at all.
So all in all, I insist : the new disc definitely looks like a brand new 4k restoration from the OCN that sadly is dumbed down by its grading but the older disc certainly looks dated nowadays. Again, you can spot this most esaily in the 5th set of caps, precisely because that's where the color grading doesn't impact too much.