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Perkins Cobb wrote:As long as we're making this about me, Michael also neglected to link to my overreaction to the BFI's bungled release of The Devils ... to which I still say, do it right or don't bother. I may be disagreeable, but at least I'm consistent!

I did in fact link to the thread, so anyone who was interested would have seen your followup post - but since you've gone on to describe the release as "bungled", it's pretty clear that you're still firmly in overreaction mode.

"Bungled" implies incompetence, but I fail to see how this charge can stick when the BFI has been absolutely clear from the start which version of the film is being included, and the contractual reasons for this. As I said in the thread, there are two legitimate (i.e. Michael Bradsell-edited and Ken Russell-supervised) cuts of the film, and the BFI is including one of them - which in itself is a major breakthrough, since that version has never had a home video release in any format in the correct aspect ratio before.

I´ve mailed questions to Trigon-Film (Switzerland) and Potemkine (France) about The Hunters at 143 mins.

Potemkine replied saying they had worked directly with A. who gave them restored film materials, and never mentioned an alternate cut. I sent them links to the YouTube clips in a second e-mail, plus a reference to A.´s own site, giving the run time as 165 mins. and clearly mentioning the execution scene. No answer yet.

Potemkine and Trigon-Film both assume the length difference is due to PAL speed-up.

Trigon-Film will release the six films in their box set separately.

BTW, on MUBI i found an interview with A. done c. 2006 by a Bulgarian journalist. Some info from the interview:
- A. says he has produced a DVD containing his filmography details and deleted scenes (no titles given)
- one hour was cut from Ulysses´ Gaze, for instance a journey down the Danube with a band of gypsies
- the third part of the trilogy was to be called The Return (or Dead Zone), set in the neutral zone between Greek and Turkish Cyprus, to star Keitel, Michelle Pfeiffer and Sean Penn

Stefan Andersson wrote:Potemkine and Trigon-Film both assume the length difference is due to PAL speed-up.

I'm sorry, but that's just brain-dead. A film would have to be nearly nine-and-a-half hours long to lose 23 minutes due to PAL speedup - just how different do they think the framerates of theatrical and PAL actually are?

Stefan Andersson wrote:plus a reference to A.´s own site, giving the run time as 165 mins. and clearly mentioning the execution scene. No answer yet.

Just to be clear, I should point out that the execution scene is present in the Artifical Eye DVD. What's missing is the continuation of this scene, with the executed partygoers standing up and walking back to the party.

By the way, the digitally obscured sex scene of the long version that I found online makes me suspect that the source of this transfer was a Japanese disc.

Does anyone know if the Greek 'New Star' version of 'The Hunters' is the correct, full length? And, more important did it ever even exist? It's currently listed at videosun.gr, but as 'not available at this time'. They have the running time (as someone noted earlier) as 105 min, which makes no sense, so I assume it's just an error. Is the listing itself just a product of wishful thinking?

I just compared the Artificial Eye disc of ALEXANDER THE GREAT (which runs 199m 34s at 25 fps) with a transfer I found online (which runs 208m 12s at 24 fps). Like the longer transfer of THE HUNTERS, the latter version digitally obscures some nudity, which makes me suspect that it comes from the same (almost certainly Japanese) source.

The two versions are absolutely identical in terms of content. The AE transfer is sharper, brighter, and has a cleaner soundtrack, but the image is marred by frequent speckling that is not evident on the Japanese edition.

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BradStevens: I think you´re right about the Japanese source for ALEXANDER THE GREAT. From my laser disc-buying days I clearly remember a listing for ALEXANDER on Japanese LD. This would be around 1996.

Two more missing scenes from THE HUNTERS are now on YouTube.

I´ve twice e-mailed info about The Hunters at 143 mins. to [email protected] (address given on A´s own site). No reply. Given A.´s fatal accident, answering e-mails is probably not a priority right now.

Has anybody ever e-mailed and gotten a reply from this address?

Has anyone received replacement discs for the defective ones (from volume I) from Artificial Eye?

Got mine last week.

I've still not had mine. It said 10 days for delivery and we're nigh on 3 weeks now, so I'll send through another email at the end of the week if it hasn't turned up.

Cinemateca Uruguaya ran The Hunters on Feb. 19 as part of a homage to Angelopoulos. It was listed at 168 mins. in programme notes, and, interestingly, it was shown in digital form, which makes me think it was really the 143 min. cut. More info in Spanish here. I don´t speak Spanish but I´ll try e-mailing them.

eBay sellers list the Oi kynigoi DVD (with the B&W cover) as a factory promo at 168 mins. I wonder why this 168 min. info continually pops up and is assumed to be correct. Doesn´t anybody check running times? At least Trigon-Film in Switzerland (who advertise The Hunters at 168 mins. on their site) e-mailed back and confirmed the 143 mins. running time.

On the Artificial Eye Vol. 2 set; is the quality of Landscape in the Mist an improvement over the New Yorker edition? And finally are The Beekeeper and Landscape uncut?

Four Angelopoulos films are heading to blu-ray in Japan on 4/28. They are Voyage to Cythera, Landscape in the Mist, Eternity and a Day and The Weeping Meadow. All are labeled as newly tranfered by Director and are already available for pre-order on amazon.co.jp.

On the same day Kusturica's Underground is also being issued on blu-ray by Kinokuniya.

Discussion about the cuts to The Hunters can be found here:

http://mubi.com/topics/artificial-eye-t ... ion?page=5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Two posters, one with access to Greek Film Institute, is investigating the situation.

New releases from Kinokuniya（Japan）
Angelopoulos on Blu-ray （Japanese Region A, No English subs）
New, high-definition tranfer, supervised by director.

On April 28, 2012

Landscape in the Mist(Topio stin Omichli)（1988）
http://amazon.jp/dp/B007BYPYB8/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Eternity and a Day(Mia aioniothta kai mia mera)（1998）
http://amazon.jp/dp/B007BYPYC2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On May 26, 2012

Voyage to Cythera(Taxidi stin Kythira)(1984)
http://amazon.jp/dp/B007BYLNY0/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Weeping Meadow(To Livadi pou dakryzi) （2004）
http://amazon.jp/dp/B007BYLNYA/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I´ve e-mailed Greek Film Centre about the cuts to The Hunters. They referred me to Theo Angelopoulos´ own web site. I´ve already e-mailed them twice. No reply yet.

Is the quality of Landscape in the Mist an improvement over the previous editions? Are there cuts to this film and The Beekeeper?

A poster on the Angelopoulos thread on MUBI has commented on a 2004 Japanese DVD of The Hunters (Japanese subs only). According to him the DVD runs 172 mins. He checked it himself, didn´t just quote the DVD box. It´s maybe the DVD included in the box set here:
http://www.jpophelp.com/scripts/newsite ... showname=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So now we have a Japanese DVD, plus the Chinese bootleg with (I assume) Chinese subs. I suppose the Japanese DVD might be identical to the Chinese. But the clips on YouTube lack subs, so maybe there are two sources.

I just finished watching The Dust of Time for the first time, and I was quite apalled by how weak, sometimes even cringeworthy boardering on self-parody, it was. It is easily his worst film after Reconstruction. It makes me kind of sad that this was to be his final film as I would have liked a great ending to his legacy.

Anyways, I'm sure it didn't help that the Artificial Eye transfer is beyond horrible. Very digital look, no grain and loads of edge enhancement. Really disappointing considering they could've made the ultimate collection. First The Hunters-gate, now this. Actually, I own the Greek "Audio Visual Entertainment" release of the film, however it doesn't have English subtitles, so count that as a mistake. BUT now I'll definitely backup the disc and add the subtitles from the AE release...

Below is a comparison (with screenshots from the DVDBeaver review) of the two dvd's, and of course you'll notice that the color scheme is very different (the AE has a drab greenish tinge that none of Angelopoulos' others film feature, so I believe the AVE to be more true to the cinematic presentation). Plus the AE is cropped badly. It it cannot be seen on the stills but in motion, grain is visible on the AVE. But the worst has got to be the edge enhancment which has a very digital and artificial look to it. In the screenshots below the AE looks sharper, but I believe that this to be artificially applied sharpening, as all of Angelopoulos' previous films, including The Weeping Meadow have had somewhat soft looks. I am very baffled as to why such a new movie can look so different, and AE's answer here should NOT be that they weren't able to find the film undamaged. To me their release looks like a bad digital SD transfer.

Can anybody who has seen this in the cinema confirm which of the color scheme is more correct? When I have the time I'll make a screen comparison in native resolution (the images below have been resized to 800px wide as the ones on Beaver), if anyone's interested.

AE:


AVE:


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Stefan Andersson wrote:A poster on the Angelopoulos thread on MUBI has commented on a 2004 Japanese DVD of The Hunters (Japanese subs only). According to him the DVD runs 172 mins. He checked it himself, didn´t just quote the DVD box. It´s maybe the DVD included in the box set here:
http://www.jpophelp.com/scripts/newsite ... showname=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So now we have a Japanese DVD, plus the Chinese bootleg with (I assume) Chinese subs. I suppose the Japanese DVD might be identical to the Chinese. But the clips on YouTube lack subs, so maybe there are two sources.

That's the one (altough quite a bit cheaper on Amazon I think).
The Hunters screened in 35mm last month (as part of a bunch of Angelopolous retrospectives which are playng here and there around Tokyo). That was also advertised as 172 min. Missed it, but did manage to catch Alexander the Great instead.

According to the Trigon website, the 168 minute version on "The Hunters" was the version shown
only at Cannes, the 144 minute version was re-cut by Angelopoulos later, and was his preferred
cut. No idea if this is true, but if so, then I'm less frustrated at my inability to find the longer cut.

Here's the not very good google translation from the site;

http://www.trigon-film.org/de/movies/Hunter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"There are circulating around various lengths of this film. Those with 167 minutes duration affects the version that ran in 1977 in the Cannes competition. This release was followed by Theo Angelopoulos shortened to 144 minutes, so that the 144-minute version of the trigon-film DVD corresponds to the final assembly of the filmmaker. It is his own favorite version, the "director's cut" if you want Sun - Theo Angelopoulos has worked on all of his films on the respective premieres at major festivals further and made minor changes, mostly related to the visual melody in the rhythm Fine. In the case of THE HUNTER its cuts were at their highest, because it is not just the length of individual settings easily adapting, but a shorter passage summed up, because it seemed to him more clearly and better. He said that the removed scenes have contributed nothing additional, what had already been in the film or in the figures."

Thanks very much for the update, sidetracked!