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Zot!, while I recognise that it's generally much easier to dismiss a film than to build a case for it, I'm curious what you mean by this:

These are extremely well crafted films that are both entertaining and enlightening on a multitude of levels (emphasis mine)

How are these films enlightening?

You can see in the dark when the teevee has them on. It's like the opening to Contempt if you're trying.

Jun-Dai wrote:Zot!, while I recognise that it's generally much easier to dismiss a film than to build a case for it, I'm curious what you mean by this:

These are extremely well crafted films that are both entertaining and enlightening on a multitude of levels (emphasis mine)

How are these films enlightening?

Well I wrote this in response to benm calling them Eurotrash, like they were on the level of Chocolat or something. They are enlightening in the sense that they have themes that deal with the personal as well as political/social issues in an adult and intelligent manner. I think some people might think they are a mainstream bid from Kieslowski, but that doesn't mean he's stooped to pandering. I'm surpirsed he's not more highly regarded around here, actually.

The films, as I remember them, mostly seemed pretty. I think 'Red' is an interesting comparison with 'Amelie', actually, a more realistic depiction of what it means to observe other people and to try to intervene in their lives..

Fair enough. I think that I would consider the films somewhat indulgent, and I do find it hard to take them in at any level much beyond being stylish mood pieces (and they excel at that). One could probably say similar things about Wong Kar-wai (who is similarly indulgent and yet probably more popular here), but I think WKW has a playfulness and inventiveness that Kieslowski lacks, and anyways he's more experimental and edgy in his stylishness.

I like some Kieslowski, surprisingly enough his earlier work, such as Camera Buff. But when it comes to euro arthouse movies (admittedly above Amelie type films that exist in a fantasy-land) I'd prefer to watch Certified Copy 3 times instead of this triology since Kiarostami as a Western European transplant does a lot more to rise above the typically well-shot and "deep" but not really saying that much type arthouse movie.

Only watched Certified Copy once, and the trilogy a few times over the years (it's been a while), but since you mention them in the same breath, I'd actually put them at about the same level, though I am more fond of the trilogy and am more likely to revisit it again. Dekalog and Veronique (the latter my first exposure to Kieslowski back in the day) are the only other Kieslowski I've had a chance to check out, fwiw, and like them a lot as well.

Which once again makes me wonder why Criterion is allegedly hesitant to take on Certified Copy. Suppose it will become more clear once the inevitable US video release occurs.

The trilogy is more than typically western European arthouse fantasy in that the films commemorate the end of the cold war and the emergence of eastern Europe (not only in the director's shift from his native Poland but in the themes and treatment of White), and the early nineties drive toward European unification, made most explicit in Blue. Not sure that Amelie has much to say about any of this.

scotty2 wrote:The trilogy is more than typically western European arthouse fantasy in that the films commemorate the end of the cold war and the emergence of eastern Europe (not only in the director's shift from his native Poland but in the themes and treatment of White), and the early nineties drive toward European unification, made most explicit in Blue. Not sure that Amelie has much to say about any of this.

Thank you. Even beyond the political/sociological content, the films are not a "romp", and the personal stories are quite serious in nature, even if they contain some element of humor. While some might feel the brooding stylization of a serious European filmmaker like Tarkovsky or Bergman is necessary to put forward serious themes, I feel that Kieslowski's more subtle approach is very effective, and just as artistically valid. I actually like Amelie, but it is a light comedy, and these are to me serious works of art. I definately agree that Kiarostami and Kieslowski are kindred filmmakers in many respects.

I can't find it online anymore, but years ago there was a good piece on Blue in preparation for Sight and Sound's 2002 poll, part of the magazine's effort to advocate for a few more recent films as potential vote-getters (it may have been Nick James's piece, but I just can't recall). I've long wanted to read Annette Insdorf's book Double Lives, Second Chances on Kieszlowski but her commentary tracks on the Miramax Three Colors release probably cover a lot of the same ground. Her learned enthusiasm makes it difficult to take Kieszlowski lightly.

I still haven't seen Certified Copy but certainly want to. Here's to Criterion to the rescue, despite the rumors.

Here's the Sight & Sound piece. It was indeed by Nick James.

Hey, thanks for that. I looked in the wrong places at BFI. I wonder if the intergenerational aspect of Kieslowski's work James celebrates still rings true or whether Kieslowski's work now feels more clearly rooted in its own time. Double life felt that way on a recent viewing, as did a review of Wong kar-wai's purple patch. I admire them no less but perhaps this is how time works on us as much as on the films.

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Belle de jour!

I would agree swo. Score!

Hopefully they have the sequel too.

Certainly appears to be, but how is that? I thought it was a StudioCanal title.

Miramax

The old bell in the soup trick

Also, Criterion obviously hard at work on Night at the Museum.

swo17 wrote:Also, Criterion obviously hard at work on Night at the Museum.

Viva Variety boxset plz

Where do you guys get Belle de jour? Belle is beauty, not "bell". ???

It's just a pun: bell + soup de jour.

Belle de Jour was one of the few genuinely good early releases from Studio Canal and with solid supplements so it'd take something really special from Criterion to make owners of the SC package to double-dip.