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These films really aren't worth all the kvetching, everyone. Really, nerddom: resign yourselves to the fact that they're awful at worst and alright at best.

That response always seems unfair to me. They're obviously not the greatest movies ever made, but they're important both in the history of American movies and the lives of a lot of people- and Lucas' rewriting of the past seems especially problematic with respect to their historical interest. It's worth being upset about.

It's funny, because before I read all this today, I was coincidentally thinking about the first trilogy. I had assumed that I would buy the new Blus, but I found myself wondering why I was going to get them. What is my attachment to them? They weren't a big part of my childhood - I vaguely remember seeing Jedi in theaters, but the first time I really watched them was when I was in college. They don't have much nostalgic value for me, and at any rate I'm not much of a nostalgic guy. I don't really think they're great cinema, and several years later I'm frankly surprised at the degree to which the second trilogy sullied the first in a stubbornly lingering way. I'm not a total scrooge, and I do have some fondness for the first three, but I don't have a strong urge to watch them again in the near term. So I basically figured that I'll pass for the time being, maybe permanently. It was a relief to make that decision, to be honest.

And then I read that Lucas is still fucking around with them, making my earlier ruminations feel like a premonition. I don't even find the changes all that offensive aside from the principal of the thing - I just think it's pathetic that he can't let the damned things go. But I sure as hell can.

mfunk9786 wrote:These films really aren't worth all the kvetching, everyone. Really, nerddom: resign yourselves to the fact that they're awful at worst and alright at best.

I think they're actually highly interesting from a cinephilic perspective. It's sort of like proto-Tarantino in the way it uses story theory (you can't really call these characters purely cinematic) and references for commenting upon them. That's why Empire is the best and quite honestly one of the best Hollywood films of the last thirty years. It goes ever so slightly past Tarantino pastiche into using that pastiche as a means of commentary on story telling convention. In the end it's a dark and nasty movie as would have been Jedi before Lucas kicked out everyone talented. In a certain respect those three films are the logical conclusion to the cinephile as movie maker thing that's caught on since the '50s. It rips away all of the social commentary of Godard, or interaction theory of Chabrol to leave just a mass of references that turn against themselves to make something of the ultimate blankslate in storytelling. That in addition to that it's very fun makes your dismissal of the series and the hard work of dozens of people more than a tad absurd.

Brian C wrote:It's funny, because before I read all this today, I was coincidentally thinking about the first trilogy. I had assumed that I would buy the new Blus, but I found myself wondering why I was going to get them. What is my attachment to them? They weren't a big part of my childhood - I vaguely remember seeing Jedi in theaters, but the first time I really watched them was when I was in college. They don't have much nostalgic value for me, and at any rate I'm not much of a nostalgic guy. I don't really think they're great cinema, and several years later I'm frankly surprised at the degree to which the second trilogy sullied the first in a stubbornly lingering way. I'm not a total scrooge, and I do have some fondness for the first three, but I don't have a strong urge to watch them again in the near term. So I basically figured that I'll pass for the time being, maybe permanently. It was a relief to make that decision, to be honest.

I doubt I can avoid buying them for my kids, but it's not as if I have to watch them myself. I saw the first three once apiece when they came out and skipped the last three altogether, so my memory of the originals wouldn't be good enough to spot any changes anyway.

MichaelB wrote:so my memory of the originals wouldn't be good enough to spot any changes anyway.

Trust me you'll spot many of them, even if it was your first time watching the films; terrible CGI, weird sound effects (like those just added), Hayden Christensen, the Greedo scene, Solo walking over Jabba's tail in a glitchy fashion etc... You'll see what I mean.

I used to not care, but now Lucas' revisionism is so constant and the outcry so omnipresent that my annoyance is based on the shear volume and regularity of changes he keeps making, rather than the actual content of those changes. Pretty much every film website or blog I've read in the last 12 hours has complained about it. I just think for the sake of everyone's sanity, he needs to leave the films alone.

I don't think Lucas realizes that if, with each new release, he would just present the theatrical versions* (cleaned up for HD, but otherwise untampered with) alongside his latest revised versions, all of the wrath that these changes evoke would instantly dissolve into affectionate "Oh, George" acceptance. He would only have to do this work for the theatrical versions once, and in fact, I imagine most of the work is already done. It's only those scenes that have since been altered (comprising, what, 5% of the films?) that might need to be done over from scratch.

*or really any version pre-Special Edition, which was when the changes started calling attention to themselves.

A friend of mine told me that he saw a Harrison Ford interview/read one where Lucias said something to this affect with regarding Han Solo being killed in Jedi (as some had suggested would make for a great opening):

"Dead Han Solo dolls wouldn't sell that well."

Don't know if it's true, but coupled with George admitting in the documentary about the making of the Star Wars saga (available on one of the SD reissues), where he acknowledges the irony of starting his career by fighting/working against and outside of the system but now BEING a system of his own...it just seems to me that George doesn't care and knows whatever Star Wars-related anything that's released will get lots of money. Plus, I'm sure he has plenty of yes men telling him that all of his edits are vast improvements.

I like the films (though Jedi is kinda weak), but I don't care to watch/buy anything that isn't the original theatrical versions.

Have you read this? (Posted earlier in the thread.)

I agree with swo, that one gesture is all that is necessary. While I'm not a big fan of the Star Wars films I certainly agree that they should be preserved in their original versions for posterity (and non-annoyance) reasons.

I just hope that if the fanboys do win this battle they push further and take Lucas to task for all of his revisions to THX-1138, his true masterpiece and the one which in the 2003 director's cut (the only version available on DVD or Blu-Ray) has just as many frustrating little pointless tweaks (or rather point-altering changes, often frustratingly literalising what were once poetic moments) to the original material, the most egregious of which is the tacked on totally over the top traffic dodging scene (think similar to the bike scene from The Matrix Reloaded but with Robert Duvall having no possible character reason to be able to handle a car that well), leading into the previously existing climax which still stands as the greatest anti-car chase scene ever filmed.

swo17 wrote:Have you read this? (Posted earlier in the thread.)

Well there you go, thanks for posting that for me. Interesting how much of that disagrees with the documentary they released with the SD box-set (which seems to imply that the space epic was in planning for much longer and was basically George's entire focus throughout everything)

swo17 wrote:I don't think Lucas realizes that if, with each new release, he would just present the theatrical versions* (cleaned up for HD, but otherwise untampered with) alongside his latest revised versions, all of the wrath that these changes evoke would instantly dissolve into affectionate "Oh, George" acceptance. He would only have to do this work for the theatrical versions once, and in fact, I imagine most of the work is already done. It's only those scenes that have since been altered (comprising, what, 5% of the films?) that might need to be done over from scratch.

*or really any version pre-Special Edition, which was when the changes started calling attention to themselves.

But "Oh, George" acceptance wouldn't generate tons of Internet buzz (at least not over the long term), while continually making stupid changes to his films increases visibility of his product, lots of public awareness and interest, and sales. His tinkering with the films seems to me more like a marketing strategy than an artistic strategy. He keeps the changes insubstantial enough that people won't reject the new versions of his films completely, thus (like McDonald's rotating menu) ensuring people will have a reason to keep coming back to his theme park.

Glad i still have the original versions of the 3 Star Wars films and THX1138 on widescreen laserdisc and the Best Buy Collectible Metal Case dvd box set which has the originals and the special editions...now all out of print.

atcolomb wrote: Best Buy Collectible Metal Case dvd box set which has the originals and the special editions...now all out of print.

A version of this is still in print.

I'm just waiting for the anniversary edition of American Graffiti which will inevitably have all of the 50s music replaced by the cast of Glee doing cover versions of 80s pop (with only the ageless Ron Howard reprising his role in the newly shot footage as a favour to Lucas).

knives wrote:

atcolomb wrote: Best Buy Collectible Metal Case dvd box set which has the originals and the special editions...now all out of print.

A version of this is still in print.

Looked at alot of websites...all dvds that had the original 1977, 1980, and 1983 versions are not for sale anymore except if you buy it from a third party. Also Best Buy no longer sells the metal case collectible dvd box set.

Apparently (although I can't confirm), Lucasfilm has also asked the major retailers to remove all existing copies from their shelves.

colinr0380 wrote:I'm just waiting for the anniversary edition of American Graffiti which will inevitably have all of the 50s music replaced by the cast of Glee doing cover versions of 80s pop (with only the ageless Ron Howard reprising his role in the newly shot footage as a favour to Lucas).

He could update it for each decade. After all, the tagline "Where were you in '62?" is meaningless to me, as I was still years off even being an embryo, and while I can just about remember '72, it's certainly not in any great detail. But '82 and '92 are different matters entirely.

EW is previewing a deleted scene from Empire.

The problem is that there are already a number of nostalgic films for all those decades already (50s: Diner and Mischief; 60s: 1969; 70s: Almost Famous, 80s: The Wedding Singer, Hot Tub Time Machine, American Psycho (the 80s need better nostaglic films!); 90s-early 2000s Remember Me) that are already doing that!

Maybe Lucas is just afraid of following Bogdanovich and ending up with a Texasville!

colinr0380 wrote:The problem is that there are already a number of nostalgic films for all those decades already (50s: Diner and Mischief; 60s: 1969

Or, for another 1970s view of the early 1960s, there's Animal House.

And, although it is actually set in the then current 1980s, it could be argued that The Big Chill is a 1960s nostalgia movie. (Plus, of course, spanning the 60s and 70s with Forrest Gump.)

colinr0380 wrote:80s: The Wedding Singer, Hot Tub Time Machine, American Psycho (the 80s need better nostaglic films!)

The Last Days of Disco is clearly number one, but if you count that more as an elegy to the dying 70s then Adventureland is probably next in line.

Blu-ray.com

I don't know, but even with the 4.5 score for extras, I'm becoming turned off by it, because of the LACK of extras. Pretty much none of the extras from the DVDs are included on here, almost nothing new. Most of the extras seem like dug-into-the-archives materials slapped here and there, all the deleted scenes are "New", so none of the deleted materials from the DVDs are here. No "Empire Of Dreams", no "Within a Minute" (Obviously no Christmas Special either...)

Far from being comprehensive. Looks like another reason to hold on to the DVDs, or even laserdiscs for those who have them.

I agree. When this becomes incredibly cheap I'll not be able to resist, but for now I'll pass. The special features looks pretty weak. Soundbyte interviews and vintage EPK stuf, 100 minutes of Star Wars related Family Guy gags, and a 90 minute documentary about overweight people doing humanitarian work or whatever in Storm Tropper costumes. No thanks.