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domino harvey wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:58 pm the core viewing audience

Teenagers raised evangelical

Horseshoe theory in action

domino harvey wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:58 pm Do Boomers even like this movie? Isn't the core viewing audience younger?

If you're still teaching ask your students if they're Haim fans.

I mean he references William Holden and Jon Peters and if that wasn't enough the film's centerpiece is a Paul McCartney music video. I was sitting there asking myself, why? It's an odd film because it asks you to accept a lot of personal specifics, the inside of an inside joke. In a way, I admire Anderson for getting away with it and if you connect with it that's great, but man is it a narrow path. Also, in contrast to many, I don't think the leads are charming, interesting, funny, and for sure, sexy enough, to carry this kind of picture. The movie's like sending an annoying Jezebel reader and obnoxious Twitch streamer back to the 70s.

I'm a PTA fan, by the way, but I think the mentality of this movie was kinda gross, standing in stark contrast, almost in opposition to great films like The Master and There Will Be Blood.

Considering you're a fan and he just passed, this is the kind of story Bogdanovich would have done great with.

I'm a boomer and there was zero nostalgia for me (unless you have to be a West Coast Boomer). Although, I'm not sure that was Anderson's goal.

I don't think the film is asking us to "accept a lot of personal specifics" - Sure, there are inside jokes about Holden's filmography, but Peters was intentionally portrayed in opposition to the very story that inspired his role, and so like Scorsese just did with Pacino's Hoffa, PTA is utilizing these real-life figures for a fictional service of his narrative- one that is not esoteric but inclusive of the observations of myopia-inducing "maturation" in the adults' segregating themselves from intimacy and devolving into narcissism in their own idiosyncratic ways (which do play to some inside jokes, but work outside of that- at least they have for plenty of people I know who've seen the film and had no idea these characters were based on real people). Also, it's a bit silly to describe the film's "centerpiece" as a "Paul McCartney music video," as if that ostracizes those who don't know the band... Gerry Rafferty's 1978 hit "Right Down the Line" has been used prominently in both episodes of Euphoria's second season so far, but it doesn't feel like noteworthy or jarring anachronism...

The Bogdanovich comparison is good, and this feels like PTA's They All Laughed, albeit a version that would accentuate the value in Ritter and Stratten's union by contrasting it against others' failures to even acknowledge 'love' as a valuable asset that exists at all.

Black Hat wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:08 pmIf you're still teaching ask your students if they're Haim fans.

Haim is about as huge as a willowy soft rock band can be among young people (source: I am 21 and they are pretty universally beloved among people I know about my age).

I agree that this film in particular might be asking audiences to bring a bit more of their own subjective experiences to it than most of Anderson's other movies, but only to the extent of like, remembering what having a crush on an older person as a kid or certain elements of young love feels like. I'm sorry you bounced super hard off of the two leads (though I'm not quite sure why you'd want them to be "sexier," given what appear to be your other issues with the film...), but those contemporary analogues you cite don't make sense for the characters the two are playing - Alana is an anxious person looking for status and self-actualization, not a radfem ideologue, and Gary is a skilled-beyond-his-years hustler, not a geeky layabout. And I don't know exactly what you mean when you say the film has a "gross" mentality (though I don't suspect the best), but I have no idea how that exists in opposition to Anderson's other work.

Purely anecdotal, but I saw a large sold-out screening of this and the average age in the audience seemed to be about 28...so I don't know that the "this movie is for boomers" argument holds. They laughed and cheered throughout, and I can only speculate that it wasn't because they were die-hard Paul McCartney fans or because they really loved the William Holden references.

FrauBlucher wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:31 pm I'm a boomer and there was zero nostalgia for me (unless you have to be a West Coast Boomer). Although, I'm not sure that was Anderson's goal.

Bingo. After all, you are a native Manhattanite. I think he's been pretty clear in expressing his love for the Valley which, admittedly, I think is hilarious.

NC - His other films are the work of a curious person, hungry to get at the bottom of something. Licorice Pizza struck me as a person tired, big-bellied, absent in motivation.


NC & ian - I'm surprised to hear this, but take a look at Haim's plays on TikTok. It's barely anything.

Also wouldn’t Anderson be an old Gen Xer? Seems like twitter I don’t like bingo as a criticism.

Cute. He's expressing nostalgia for his world of 70s Los Angeles. A place, perhaps like nowhere on earth at the time, from the Valley to Laurel Canyon to Hollywood, where everything he consumed was produced by boomers. Like I said before if you connect with that, great, but it's decidedly not for me and I think it's sad to see him go in this direction.

Black Hat wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:17 pmNC & ian - I'm surprised to hear this, but take a look at Haim's plays on TikTok. It's barely anything.

That doesn't mean anything for Haim other than that they're a big act with little presence on that app. There are plenty acts big with young people that have no real TikTok presence, just as there are a zillion Tiktok artists who are unable to cross over to success outside of that app. There's no monolithic statistical measure of exposure for an artist, and I don't think any act that counts Taylor Swift among their industry allies (as Haim does) has to worry that they aren't reaching the youths

Black Hat wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:08 pm...standing in stark contrast, almost in opposition to great films like The Master and There Will Be Blood.

Black Hat wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:33 pm Cute. He's expressing nostalgia for his world of 70s Los Angeles. A place, perhaps like nowhere on earth at the time, from the Valley to Laurel Canyon to Hollywood, where everything he consumed was produced by boomers. Like I said before if you connect with that, great, but it's decidedly not for me and I think it's sad to see him go in this direction.

Between Boogie Nights, Punch-Drunk Love, Inherent Vice and Phantom Thread... you really don't have a leg to stand on here? He's been moving away from the master narrative Blood/Master mode for three films in a row now, and has been settings films in the greater LA area for literally his entire career. The notion that this is some regional boomer-appeasing uncritical nostalgia-fest with no precedent in his recent or past work is... odd.

nc - We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Taylor Swift, however, does exponentially better on TikTok than Haim.

sensea - You're right, but LA in his other films (never seen PDL) is a sidebar. It's not nearly as explicit and you really could miss that aspect of his work entirely. I certainly did with Boogie Nights. Conversely, Licorice Pizza is too thin for that and so, is more of a focal point, unavoidable, which I think is by design. That shift, the lack of depth, which tends to be a consequence of having roots nostalgia — we idealize the past — is what feels new. I also think Inherent Vice & Phantom Thread fall more in line with The Master & There Will Be Blood, all films about obsession, than you.

senseabove wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:51 pm

Black Hat wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:08 pm...standing in stark contrast, almost in opposition to great films like The Master and There Will Be Blood.

Black Hat wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:33 pm Cute. He's expressing nostalgia for his world of 70s Los Angeles. A place, perhaps like nowhere on earth at the time, from the Valley to Laurel Canyon to Hollywood, where everything he consumed was produced by boomers. Like I said before if you connect with that, great, but it's decidedly not for me and I think it's sad to see him go in this direction.

Between Boogie Nights, Punch-Drunk Love, Inherent Vice and Phantom Thread... you really don't have a leg to stand on here? He's been moving away from the master narrative Blood/Master mode for three films in a row now, and has been settings films in the greater LA area for literally his entire career. The notion that this is some regional boomer-appeasing uncritical nostalgia-fest with no precedent in his recent or past work is... odd.

Indeed. And as far as the truly evaluating films based on their appeal to boomers, Boogie Nights features one (1) ELO song, whereas Licorice Pizza has zero (0).

I think the thread has been hijacked into an obsessiveness with the past far exceeding the film in question's, which is an unfairly thin reading- though I suppose if you think the film is itself thin, it's fitting

therewillbeblus, I'm not sure I agree with that. If I'm not mistaken, hasn't PT Anderson talked about how he wanted to make a film about growing up in Southern California. Not autobiographical but many elements of his youth most likely exist in this film. So, for me that makes it fair game to discuss the relevance of the early 70s. After all the name of the film was a real record store chain.

Of course it's fair game to point out the era's relevance, but there's a difference between that 'interest' in the past triggering a path to universal themes vs. obsessively pointing to esoteric 'obsessions' with the past as destroying that universality and becoming the key theme of the work. I reject the latter as the predominant merit or reason for the film's existence, that's all, but you're right in all points in your response.. I was just being cheeky

Ha. Just realized that the film which is suppose to take place during 1973, which means that PT Anderson would've been 3 years old. So I guess my notion that

many elements of his youth most likely exist in this film

is a bit of a stretch.

Yet for all the continuities, the recourse to dependable methods and motifs, what defines the new film – and makes it such a monumentally frustrating experience – are properties not previously evident in Anderson’s body of work: obstinate optimism, conceptual muddiness, and a near-total lack of stakes.

His desire to get closer to his characters, to forgo distance in favour of immersion, results here in something close to a rejection of insight and even meaning. (It seems telling that the title, borrowed from a chain of record shops, possesses no claim to relevance.)

Two snippets of a very good piece that does a better job articulating aspects of my response to Licorice Pizza.

FWIW, Sam Harpoon is played by screenwriter and comic book writer Dan Chariton. He was also a long-time assistant to the late Ricky Jay when he appeared in Anderson's films. It is not Ben Stiller.

Yeah this has been going around for a while on the Internet and he’s even listed as Dan Chariton in the film’s closing credits, which I noticed my second time through. I can sorta see the resemblance but I remain skeptical given the Pynchon-posturing antics

I have to say that the 70mm print I saw looked better than the ones struck for Phantom Thread and Inherent Vice. Not that they look “bad” in any sense, but they had significant degrees of grain added. The sound mix in this is fabulous as well

beamish14 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:11 pm I have to say that the 70mm print I saw looked better than the ones struck for Phantom Thread and Inherent Vice. Not that they look “bad” in any sense, but they had significant degrees of grain added. The sound mix in this is fabulous as well

I believe this one was actually shot in 70MM, whereas those films were shot on 35MM and the 70MM prints were blow-ups.

LP was not shot on 70mm; none of Anderson's films have been save most of The Master

Ah my mistake.