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I'm not sure I understand your objection- do you feel that the characters in the movie show excessive contempt for the other socio/ethnic groups around them, or that the film is so focused on Norton's character's self-contempt that it elides that aspect? I mean, the climax of the whole 'fuck you' monologue is the revelation that all of the purported disgust he has for all the other people in his life is a cover for the disgust he feels for himself, and for the choices he's made.

Precisely. And I don't object at all. I just don't think his self-contempt is explored to any great degree - enough so that he can break through it. If there was a real breakthrough would the fantasy at the end be necessary? But perhaps this wasn't Lee's intent anyway. Perhaps he simply wanted to make a film about a man caught in suffering...

Yeah, I think I was right on that score. In an attempt to avoid suffering in prison he put his best friends through a miserable time by coercing them to beat him up and thereby initiate another cycle of false projection and pain. It's a seemingly endless cycle. Monty doesn't see that it is but I think his friends do.

tarpilot wrote:I've been meaning to. I can only handle about two or three TV dramas at a time, and since the shitty season 4 finale of Damages fucked me over so badly I need a rebound show I can marathon to cleanse my palate.

That show is Lucy van Pelt to my Charlie Brown.

I did sort of enjoy Dylan Baker's turn as the amoral mercenary. Don't usually get to see him play someone that seedy. He obviously had a lot of fun with it.

Oh really? I guess you haven't seen Happiness, then.

mfunk9786 wrote:Oh really? I guess you haven't seen Happiness, then.

.... or Planes, Trains, and Automobiles.

I didn't really make myself clear there. He does usually play malignant characters, they just also usually appear superficially nonthreatening.

This guy...



I would probably cross the street to avoid.

hearthesilence wrote:Just got back from a free screening they had at Lincoln Center, with Spike Lee, Edward Norton, Philip Seymour Hoffman and Jon Kilik attending. Last time I saw it was 2004, but since then I've moved to NYC (never really knowing the city before) and the film does seem to carry more weight for me now then it did then. May write more about it later, but it was great

Spoiler

FWIW, Spike mentioned that he's surprised when people ask him "Did Monty go to jail or not?" To him it should've been clear - if they got on the George Washington Bridge, then Monty didn't, but in the last shot, you can tell that they passed it. Norton then interjected that Spike assumes everyone outside of NYC knows that exit, and of course Spike says "I even showed you the sign!"

This film is the definitive post-9/11 movie that has ever and probably will ever be made. It's a massive symbolism of "rebuilding"; whether that be old friendships or fading tragedies. Great DP work as always by Rodrigo Prieto, Great acting, and superb story telling. This movie is as much as it is about the emotions as it is the story. I really enjoyed this one and would recommend it to anyone.

mfunk9786 wrote:Oh really? I guess you haven't seen Happiness, then.

There should be a massive disclaimer when suggesting that film. That's the thing about happiness though; it comes across as almost harmless and "soft". I'm almost unable to describe it. I guess it's in the same genre as Mysterious Skin. A Harsh and ridged subject matter painted over with a soft brush.

knives wrote:I'm not saying the temptation itself is a bad idea and it certainly makes sense in the context of the film, but the execution of it rings false to what was shown before and after. That's not the reality Norton has been striving for in terms of presentation (the actual events fit though).

To me, the difference in execution is what makes that sequence so unbearably moving. It's sentimental, yes, but because the rest of the film is so level-headed and real, it has real impact.

Anyway, this masterpiece continues to be underappreciated, so nice to see some recognition here.