criterionforum.org

That's bizarre. The criterion.com listing for the box says at the end of the blurb for The Seventh Seal "click here for more information on this release" and that takes you to the page for the original The Seventh Seal DVD. Furthermore, the DVD Empire image of the back of the box indicates that the disc has at least the commentary track.

On the other hand, the Tartan looks stupendous! Wonderful restoration and extras! It almost makes me go HD just to get this!

My guess is that Criterion is working on a new version of this dvd, but that Bergman has passed on before it's completion. That could be the reason for this strange inclusion in the (rushed?) box set.

What a joke of a release. It was frustrating enough to begin with that December only had one new title, but it's even more confusing because all of these have perfectly legit releases. Obviously, Criterion agrees with me on this because they felt no need to alter anything about them. Doesn't Amazon make custom "boxsets" that does the exact same thing? It sounds a bit mean, but I'd be incredibly happy if Criterion never released another Bergman film again. I don't hate the man, in fact, watching The Virgin Spring late at night was one of the first great "art house" experiences I ever had. It's just that the attention he has received since his death is ridiculous. Criterion has released Sawdust and Tinsel along with this silly boxset since then. How many new Antonioni releases have there been since his death? Edward Yang? It's even more infuriating in Yang's case because at least a large part of Antonioni's work is still represented elsewhere on DVD. Yang has one film on DVD, R1 or otherwise (though I think Mahjong has some sort of bootleg release) Yes, I'm sure there's some rights issue but on the other hand, the amount of overly-canonical and "classic" films that Criterion releases is frustrating to someone like me.

Criterion's announced and fixed the problem, along with the Mala Noche colour/b&w mistake. That would explain why my Bergman box has been delayed.

They do this every December, sidehacker. Criterion repackages some old films and sells them in a nice box for cheaper; The Great Adaptations, Olivier's Shakespeare, and the old Kurosawa Samurai set are all previous examples. As such it doesn't conflict with more Edward Yang or whatnot.

So it's not Criterion being lazy and jumping for some cash. Or at least not as much as you imply.

Yes, that does put me at ease a little bit. I'd still stand by my statement that they make too many "safe" releases, but I'll still take whatever I can get!

Just got this email from Tamara this morning:

Thank you for being one of the first to send in your Seventh Seal disc for a replacement! I'm so sorry to have to tell you, but unfortunately the first round of replacement discs we mailed out had the SAME problem--even though they say "second printing" on them.

If you would be so kind as to reply to this email with your mailing address I will be more than happy to send you a 'real' replacement, and you don't need to send anything in this time.

On a happier note, here is the $10 gift certificate to our store, as promised!

If you sent in your disc early, hopefully it wasn't early enough to get the mistake disc again. Granted they had it back to me in three days but still a bit of a pain.

Wow. QC (if they frigging exist) are on a roll these days, huh? This is pretty amazing shit considering the price tags of their items.

I hate to be schadenfreudian but this is just quite a lot of Production Crud in too short a time.

Imagine if they tried to juggle normal SD retail with HD/Blu! One guy'd probably get a nickel bag of weed and Schiller's housekeys in his disc, another guy would get Turrell's diary in his.

sidehacker wrote:Criterion has released Sawdust and Tinsel along with this silly boxset since then. How many new Antonioni releases have there been since his death? Edward Yang?

One thing that makes Bergman very attractive to distributors and exhibitors is that virtually his entire output was made for the same company - so it's very easy to snaffle up rights en bloc and mix and match titles.

Coincidentally, I'm watching the Norman McLaren box at the moment, and he's another director who's extremely accessible because one company owns virtually everything.

But with filmmakers who live a more hand-to-mouth existence working for multiple production companies, things get a lot messier on all sorts of levels - which, amongst other things, means that reacting quickly to events is next to impossible. It's not completely out of the question that a distributor could, from a standing start, license a title, source the best materials, do a high-quality transfer, commission subtitles, create/license extras and get the result in the shops within six months (bearing in mind Antonioni only died in mid-2007), but it's highly unlikely - and arguably undesirable.

HerrSchreck wrote:Wow. QC (if they frigging exist) are on a roll these days, huh? This is pretty amazing shit considering the price tags of their items.

I hate to be schadenfreudian but this is just quite a lot of Production Crud in too short a time.

Imagine if they tried to juggle normal SD retail with HD/Blu! One guy'd probably get a nickel bag of weed and Schiller's housekeys in his disc, another guy would get Turrell's diary in his.

To be fair though, all in-house QC takes place prior to authoring. Once the files are created and sent to the replicator, there really isn't any chance to QC the final product that gets shipped out - nor is there typically any reason to. The issue was just that the wrong file was used in replication, which although embarrassing, doesn't have anything to do with Criterion. Theres no excuse for Mala Noche, but I don't think the Seventh Seal fiasco counts as a sign of major incompetence on Criterion's part. A different company is to blame for that one.

Am I the only one who didn't receive a $10 gift cert. by email? I received my replacement a couple days ago in the mail.

What's the appopriate support/contact email address to ask them about it?

To be fair though, all in-house QC takes place prior to authoring. Once the files are created and sent to the replicator, there really isn't any chance to QC the final product that gets shipped out - nor is there typically any reason to. The issue was just that the wrong file was used in replication, which although embarrassing, doesn't have anything to do with Criterion.

Regarding your specific comment above about "all in-house QC", and not to comment on Criterion's QC (I don't know their procedures) -- but MoC have an extra step of QC which involves getting a final set of pressed discs back from the pressing plant for final okay before anything's packaged up, cellophaned, or sent out. It's tedious, but it's foolproof and has saved us from major headaches about four times in the last few years. (We started doing it after THE IDIOT got inexplicably screwed up at the pressing plant at the final stage).

peerpee wrote:

To be fair though, all in-house QC takes place prior to authoring. Once the files are created and sent to the replicator, there really isn't any chance to QC the final product that gets shipped out - nor is there typically any reason to. The issue was just that the wrong file was used in replication, which although embarrassing, doesn't have anything to do with Criterion.

Regarding your specific comment above about "all in-house QC", and not to comment on Criterion's QC (I don't know their procedures) -- but MoC have an extra step of QC which involves getting a final set of pressed discs back from the pressing plant for final okay before anything's packaged up, cellophaned, or sent out. It's tedious, but it's foolproof and has saved us from major headaches about four times in the last few years. (We started doing it after THE IDIOT got inexplicably screwed up at the pressing plant at the final stage).

That makes a lot of sense. I've never done that final step, but mostly just because I've never had to. Well, and also because when I was in the business of DVDs we had an ambitious production schedule in both the US and UK, and there were only four of us to do the necessary work. We always stopped our QC process after we approved the check disc and authorized printing the files to DLT. Since I left though, the company's output has been in steady decline, so I shouldn't be so quick to assume universal practices based on my experience. Needless to say, MoCs discs have always been flawless, and if Criterion wasn't checking pressed discs before, I'm sure they are now.

arsonfilms wrote:and if Criterion wasn't checking pressed discs before, I'm sure they are now.

I don't know - they really should have taken heed after Jigoku and Clean, Shaven!

colinr0380 wrote:

arsonfilms wrote:and if Criterion wasn't checking pressed discs before, I'm sure they are now.

I don't know - they really should have taken heed after Jigoku and Clean, Shaven!

Well... Jigoku and Mala Noche both had problems that would have been apparent in the initial QC, but that were missed because nobody knew to look for missing or mis-color timed footage. If you haven't seen a film before, you can only assume that the version you receive is the correct one. Viewing pressed discs wouldn't have helped this.

As to Clean, Shaven, I didn't realize there was any issue beyond the missing booklets. If you're referring to the missing booklets though, I don't think that watching pressed discs prior to packaging would have helped the situation.

arsonfilms wrote:Needless to say, MoCs discs have always been flawless

Now there speaks a man who never saw the check disc of Nosferatu...

(Sorry for dredging up memories you're probably trying to suppress, Nick, but I suspect you know what I'm talking about!)

MichaelB wrote:

arsonfilms wrote:Needless to say, MoCs discs have always been flawless

Now there speaks a man who never saw the check disc of Nosferatu...

(Sorry for dredging up memories you're probably trying to suppress, Nick, but I suspect you know what I'm talking about!)

"Flawless" thanks to repeated checking and re-checking of check discs and final products. If you HAVEN'T seen some scary check discs over at BFI, I'd have to assume you have some Faustian deal with the devil going on. I once saw a check disc that had a great special features menu... and no button to get there from the main menu. I suppose thats what I get for outsourcing some graphics work, but still...

arsonfilms wrote:"Flawless" thanks to repeated checking and re-checking of check discs and final products. If you HAVEN'T seen some scary check discs over at BFI, I'd have to assume you have some Faustian deal with the devil going on. I once saw a check disc that had a great special features menu... and no button to get there from the main menu. I suppose thats what I get for outsourcing some graphics work, but still...

I can only speak for the two DVDs I produced... but let's just say I didn't get much sleep when the check discs arrived!

(I made a rod for my own back when I programmed multiple permutations of the Švankmajer shorts, together with two sets of subtitles - normal and HOH!)

Actually, there is an authoring error on one of the final Švankmajer discs, but no-one's spotted it to date - and they might not even realise it's an authoring error in the first place. It's very minor indeed, and really only the sort of niggly thing someone intimately involved with the production would even care about!

I wonder if this "special edition" will be a Blue-Ray or a DVD. The Tartan is already out of print, which means there is no BR of this film available, and that should make a CC release a necessity.

piano player wrote:I wonder if this "special edition" will be a Blue-Ray or a DVD. The Tartan is already out of print, which means there is no BR of this film available, and that should make a CC release a necessity.

..I was looking to buy the Tartan Blu-ray but i am too late. All the dvd stores in the UK don't have it and on Ebay it's almost $50. So maybe Criterion has the rights now to do a blu-ray version?......

piano player wrote:I wonder if this "special edition" will be a Blue-Ray or a DVD. The Tartan is already out of print, which means there is no BR of this film available, and that should make a CC release a necessity.

The Criterion special edition will be released on both SD and Blu-ray, according to this e-mail I received from Jon Mulvaney last September:

We'll definitely be doing some Bergman on Blu-ray next year. SEVENTH SEAL will get a new SD version and will be released on Blu-ray at the same time. BLACK NARCISSUS has been something we've been talking about re-doing but we no immediate plans. I hope this helps, and thanks for your email!

Best,

Jon Mulvaney

I posted this on the "Forthcoming..." thread back when I received it. So we have this to look forward to!

atcolomb wrote:..I was looking to buy the Tartan Blu-ray but i am too late. All the dvd stores in the UK don't have it and on Ebay it's almost $50. So maybe Criterion has the rights now to do a blu-ray version?......

It seems to be available at choicesuk.com, have you checked it? Found the store via the UK Film Council's findanyfilm.com by the way.

Ahti wrote:

atcolomb wrote:..I was looking to buy the Tartan Blu-ray but i am too late. All the dvd stores in the UK don't have it and on Ebay it's almost $50. So maybe Criterion has the rights now to do a blu-ray version?......

It seems to be available at choicesuk.com, have you checked it? Found the store via the UK Film Council's findanyfilm.com by the way.

Went to Choicesuk.com....on order!! I will wait for Criterion.......

I'd warn you that I ordered Shoah just before Christmas from Choices and got a refund cheque with a note saying that it was out of stock with them a week or so later, so I'm not sure I'd fully trust them to be able to get hold of everything that they advertise as being available.