criterionforum.org

Its all about logistics, huge catalogue and a company that loves its catalogue coupled with lack of time and the enormity of the task... it all equals frustration.
Gimmick no! Criterion are on a crest of a wave and they need to build...the competition is hot!

Matt wrote:High and Low? Vagabond? Cleo from 5 to 7? Variety Lights? Alphaville? None of those even have so much as a trailer (but some are rumored reissues). The Long Good Friday, Summertime, Picnic at Hanging Rock, Shock Corridor, and The Naked Kiss have only the trailer.

and Double Suicide, which is begging for supplements and doesn't have a snowball's chance of being reissued. Le sigh.

-Toilet Dcuk

Would be nice if some of these earlier criterion's got shifted to eclipse prices. Yay for more movies.

this is a nice idea. =D>

As others have already expressed, i hope they can do more than 12 titles a year, this is hopefully a tentative figure.

24 would be nice, 2 a month.

wonder if they'll be assigning numbers to the titles...

either way, my belief as always been that there are still so many unreleased silent and early sound films, especially foreign films, that the majority of people have never had an opportunity to see. any company that expands what's available on the market should be welcome with open arms.

I'm betting that a lot of former HVe titles will eventually end up here. When Image acquired Home Vision, Criterion regained full rights to all of their "Classic Collection" joint-ventures. This does not apply to all Home Vision titles, just the "Classic Collection" ones. All of these titles are actually owned by Janus Films. Man of Aran and Louisiana Story would be among the affected titles.

Jeff wrote:I'm betting that a lot of former HVe titles will eventually end up here. When Image acquired Home Vision, Criterion regained full rights to all of their "Classic Collection" joint-ventures. This does not apply to all Home Vision titles, just the "Classic Collection" ones. All of these titles are actually owned by Janus Films. Man of Aran and Louisiana Story would be among the affected titles.

Those aren't out of print though, right? I suppose that Image has the right to continue to release the then available HVE titles subject to the terms of the original licenses.

Tribe

Jeff wrote:I'm betting that a lot of former HVe titles will eventually end up here. When Image acquired Home Vision, Criterion regained full rights to all of their "Classic Collection" joint-ventures. This does not apply to all Home Vision titles, just the "Classic Collection" ones. All of these titles are actually owned by Janus Films. Man of Aran and Louisiana Story would be among the affected titles.

Though the latter of those, at least, would certainly warrant the deluxe treatment of full Criterion status, as there are hours and hours of supplementary material available in the form of the "study film."

Tribe wrote:Those aren't out of print though, right? I suppose that Image has the right to continue to release the then available HVE titles subject to the terms of the original licenses.

No, they're not out of print - yet. But, eventually the terms of the original agreement with HVe will expire and Criterion/Janus/Eclipse can re-release them in the manner they see fit.

I don't see the point of this, frankly. Criterion seems overly hung up about supplemental materials. If you don't have a lot of supplements, just release the title at a lower price point but still under the CC banner. What's the big deal? Ultimately, they would move more units if they began thinking outside of their $29.99/$39.99 MSRP box anyhow.

What worries me is that perhaps without the Criterion name attached, they won't devote the same degree of care and feeding to the transfers. Will Eclipse simply become a repository for titles they aren't able (or willing) to present in Criterion-worthy transfers?

I would think the transfers will still be high quality, but the restoration efforts might not be.

There is no way that Criterion can do much about the exceedingly battered and deteriorated sources of early Ozu films like "Tokyo Inn". If they need a "second brand" to allow invaluable stuff like this to be released, so be it.

this would be a great way to get the lesser-known and more difficult later-period Godard films released properly

Don't get me wrong -- I'm all for anything that gets more Ozu, Bergman, etc., films onto the market. Especially since Criterion's focus seems to have tilted slightly in favor of more contemporary films over the last few months.

I simply don't understand why Criertions feels they need a new imprint to release this material, as opposed to simply a new price point.

bunuelian wrote:I would think the transfers will still be high quality, but the restoration efforts might not be.

Well the transfers are the crucial question to me. That's where HVE often failed miserably, with stuff like PAL to NTSC conversions, and other no-nos.

ByMarkClark.com wrote:I simply don't understand why Criertions feels they need a new imprint to release this material, as opposed to simply a new price point.

One reason could be so that they can avoid complaints from the members of this forum on the Criterion-worthiness of certain titles (though most of those horses have long since escaped the barn) and complaints that supplements and transfers aren't up to normal Criterion standards. Of course, now there will be new complaints (or the same kinds of complaints we saw with HVE) that an Eclipse title should have been given the Criterion treatment. Really, they're damned no matter what they do here. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. They simply don't pay me enough to worry about their market saturation strategies.

ByMarkClark.com wrote:I simply don't understand why Criertions feels they need a new imprint to release this material, as opposed to simply a new price point.

its all about "brand image".

If memory serves, at least one film ("Victim") was released via HVe due to a lack of suitable materials for a Criterion-level restoration. This, despite the fact that Criterion had released the film themselves during the laserdisc days. I'm sure a few other HVe titles came from similar circumstances, especially as they were starting out.

Personally, I'm for Criterion to just release their barebones or slightly-less restored releases at a $15.95 or $19.95 price point. Also, wasn't there a possiblity of widespread price reductions bandied around at one point for older titles? Maybe mentioned during one of the "Ask Jon Mulvaney" Q&As? A touch off-topic, but worth asking about in the future.

-BJ

Ted Todorov wrote:Well the transfers are the crucial question to me. That's where HVE often failed miserably, with stuff like PAL to NTSC conversions, and other no-nos.

While HVE at times used transfers that weren't up to snuff, I wouldn't say that they, on the whole, "failed miserably." More often than not the transfers they used were very good and they had a pretty decent track record of it.

Tribe

But even the best possible transfer of important but poorly-preserved films would set off howls -- if released under Criterion's banner.

Give them some credit for having just the ghost of a clue as to the nature of their customer base. ;~}

The new line is all about brand values. Regardless of the flaws of individual titles, Criterion's brand is all about high-quality transfers of high-quality films with high-quality supplements, at a premium price. Adding a bare-bones low-price lower tier to that brand will compromise it. Thus, creating a separate line for that kind of product will get out the more obscure or problematic titles we've been thirsting for without putting the parent brand 'at risk'. No cloud to this silver lining as far as I can see.

zedz wrote:The new line is all about brand values. Regardless of the flaws of individual titles, Criterion's brand is all about high-quality transfers of high-quality films with high-quality supplements, at a premium price. Adding a bare-bones low-price lower tier to that brand will compromise it. Thus, creating a separate line for that kind of product will get out the more obscure or problematic titles we've been thirsting for without putting the parent brand 'at risk'. No cloud to this silver lining as far as I can see.

Thank you for succinctly saying what would have taken me twice the space to write. Reviews for a small handful of films this year (most notably Koko) have questioned the older, interlaced transfers that were clearly on hold when HVE disolved. More recently, Fallen Idol seems to be the only lower-tier release on the current schedule. I would venture to guess that in addition to releasing more bare-bones discs under a different label, the Criterion-brand will be used to more exclusively cater to higher-end releases (box sets, full restorations, comprehensive supplements, etc.), which would go even further to solidify the brand identity.

anyone else slighty amused at the complaining about this new line, when there didn't appear to really be anything close to the complaining when it was going to be a Cultish release label??

Films that otherwise wouldn't be available on DVD will soon be available on DVD...i don't see how this could possibly be something to complain about at all. I think some of you have just been spoiled

BrightEyes23 wrote:anyone else slighty amused at the complaining about this new line, when there didn't appear to really be anything close to the complaining when it was going to be a Cultish release label??

Films that otherwise wouldn't be available on DVD will soon be available on DVD...i don't see how this could possibly be something to complain about at all. I think some of you have just been spoiled

I would assume everyone believed the cult lable would put extras on each disc. That and it would mean keeping their dear Criterion pristine and free from the dirt of the low-brow.

zedz wrote:The new line is all about brand values. Regardless of the flaws of individual titles, Criterion's brand is all about high-quality transfers of high-quality films with high-quality supplements, at a premium price. Adding a bare-bones low-price lower tier to that brand will compromise it.

It's called diluting the brand, and you've hit the nail on the head.

I too am baffled as to how this could possibly be viewed as a bad thing. For very real and practical business reasons, Criterion won't release these on their own label. The other options are to license them to Image or not release them at all. Clearly, this is the best solution.