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Roger_Thornhill wrote:I hope I'm not repeating what's already been discussed, but how is the quality of the MGM dvd of The Long Goodbye and the Warner release of McCabe & Mrs. Miller? I was able to catch the latter one at an Altman retrospective in Silver Spring, MD earlier this year and have been wanting to purchase it since. Sadly, I still haven't seen The Long Goodbye despite all the raves I've read about it for years and was considering blind buying it if the DVD has a good transfer.

Both are adequate, if not amazing, transfers, although McCabe is intentionally a kind of sloppy print. As for The Long Goodbye - killer transfer or not, be kind and treat yourself to this one. Truly one of the finest films of the 70s, it perfectly captures the mood of sleazy 1973 LA, and bears repeated (perhaps endless) rewatching.

gubbelsj wrote: Both are adequate, if not amazing, transfers, although McCabe is intentionally a kind of sloppy print. As for The Long Goodbye - killer transfer or not, be kind and treat yourself to this one. Truly one of the finest films of the 70s, it perfectly captures the mood of sleazy 1973 LA, and bears repeated (perhaps endless) rewatching.

I was bored by The Long Goodbye (would the fact that I've never been to LA effect that response?), and everything else I've seen from Altman I couldn't get into, such as Dr T and the Women and Gosford park. I haven't seen The Player, Short Cuts, Nashville, prairie home companion, mccabe and mrs miller, or any of his other work as far as I know. based on the 3 I disliked, are there any of his films I should see that might give me a different perspective on why he was so praised?

SncDthMnky wrote:I was bored by The Long Goodbye (would the fact that I've never been to LA effect that response?), and everything else I've seen from Altman I couldn't get into, such as Dr T and the Women and Gosford park. I haven't seen The Player, Short Cuts, Nashville, prairie home companion, mccabe and mrs miller, or any of his other work as far as I know. based on the 3 I disliked, are there any of his films I should see that might give me a different perspective on why he was so praised?

Without being snide in any way, if you haven't seen The Player, Short Cuts, Nashville or McCabe and Mrs. Miller, then you really haven't seen Altman, at least not at his best. If it makes you feel any better, I hated Dr. T, too. Give some of the other films a try - he takes a while to get under the skin. Maybe start with The Player? It's a lot of fun, wickedly dark, and a good primer on what made Altman special. Then dive into Short Cuts. If you're intrigued by those, you can then start all over again. Here's hoping you give it a try.

SncDthMnky wrote:I was bored by The Long Goodbye (would the fact that I've never been to LA effect that response?), and everything else I've seen from Altman I couldn't get into, such as Dr T and the Women and Gosford park. I haven't seen The Player, Short Cuts, Nashville, prairie home companion, mccabe and mrs miller, or any of his other work as far as I know. based on the 3 I disliked, are there any of his films I should see that might give me a different perspective on why he was so praised?

If I were you, I wouldn't bother seeing any other Altman films, especially if you didn't like The Long Goodbye. I don't think you will be impressed with his other films. Altman tends to be an acquired taste. You either have it or you don't. Personally, I think Altman is a great director and a genius but I have friends who are totally bored by his films. If I were you, I would stick with Michelangelo Antonioni and Tony Richardson.

Yes, it is an OUTRAGE that someone has the AUDACITY to not like Altman.

But, more seriously, there should be at least one or two Altman films to suit any taste, given the number of genres he worked in.

P.S. I certainly would not recommend Short Cuts to an Altman doubter.

marty wrote: If I were you, I would stick with Michael Bay and Tony Scott.

Is this pathetic pretentiousness and snobbery desperately feigned in a vain attempt to gain the oh-so-important approval of the forum you're posting in or does it come naturally?

godardslave wrote:

marty wrote: If I were you, I would stick with Michael Bay and Tony Scott.

Is this pathetic pretentiousness and snobbery desperately feigned in a vain attempt to gain the oh-so-important approval of the forum you're posting in or does it come naturally?

No, it comes naturally.

I was making a joke but I guess its hard for some to see the humour in it. Does everything have to be so serious in this forum?

you misspelled Michelangelo

marty wrote:

godardslave wrote:

marty wrote: If I were you, I would stick with Michael Bay and Tony Scott.

Is this pathetic pretentiousness and snobbery desperately feigned in a vain attempt to gain the oh-so-important approval of the forum you're posting in or does it come naturally?

No, it comes naturally.

I was making a joke but I guess its hard for some to see the humour in it. Does everything have to be so serious in this forum?

I don't understand, who exactly are you trying to make fun of? Snobs? People who are fodder for snobs? People who like Michael Bay and Tony Scott? Moreover, what exactly has this to do with SncDthMnky's earnest question?

Maybe if you had a clear idea of what you were trying to do people would be able to detect the joke.

marty wrote:Altman tends to be an acquired taste. You either have it or you don't.

This makes no sense. How can a taste be both something that is acquired and something that you possess from the beginning? It's a complete contradiction--or perhaps this too was a joke?

Bay, Antonioni, and Scott have one thing in common, they've all made films I find far more interesting (The Rock, Almost everything Antonioni, and True Romance) than anything I've seen of Altman's. But I'm still willing to try. I think I'll check out "The Player", my library has the OOP dvd, so It'll be a start.

I just hope when I'm older I never attack someone that can not even legally drink in the united states for not liking a director's later in life work, whose willing to take advice and check out the earlier gold.

Thanks Gubbelsj.

The Player is OOP? Maybe this will give some hope for a Criterion.

flyonthewall2983 wrote:The Player is OOP? Maybe this will give some hope for a Criterion.

I dont think so... now.

I originally saw this and made the conclusion that it was. My bad.

Lino wrote:The Long Goodbye reviews.

McCabe & Mrs. Miller reviews.

Summary: they're fine! Buy them now!

Thanks Lino, but I couldn't get your links to work. But I'll take your advice anyways.

......Scratch that, I think my internet was acting up again because now they work. Oops.

davidhare wrote:But then again you maybe need a sensibility attuned to the weirdness that is America, if not actually an American sensibility. Among many streams and torrents in Altman's movies is the sense of individuals adrift in an uncaring or corrupt society. But his taste and sensibility is somehow indefinably American, in the best sense, and he was one of the great Americans. Something that makes his death even more regrettable for me.

Well put.

Lino wrote:The Long Goodbye reviews.

McCabe & Mrs. Miller reviews.

Summary: they're fine! Buy them now!

Agreed. McCabe was one of the first dozen or so discs I picked up.

davidhare wrote:But then again you maybe need a sensibility attuned to the weirdness that is America, if not actually an American sensibility. Among many streams and torrents in Altman's movies is the sense of individuals adrift in an uncaring or corrupt society. But his taste and sensibility is somehow indefinably American, in the best sense, and he was one of the great Americans.

I think you nailed Altman's sensibility perfectly. He is certainly an acquired taste and not for everyone. I always felt that his films dealt with the behavior of people as opposed to traditional linear narratives. Altman seemed to be interested in exploring how people interacted with one another and how relationships were often messy and chaotic (Nashville, Short Cuts, etc.).

Personally, The Long Goodbye is, hands down, my fave Altman film, followed by California Split. I love how, in these films, he takes established genres (the noir and the buddy comedy) and subverts them and completely makes them his own.

SncDthMnky wrote:

flyonthewall2983 wrote:The Player is OOP? Maybe this will give some hope for a Criterion.

I dont think so... now.

I originally saw this and made the conclusion that it was. My bad.

Not a problem. I actually like the DVD that's out now. Hopefully New Line will repackage it in a keep case like they have with so many of their other DVD's. BTW, does anyone know if the HD-DVD for it has come out? I remember it being on Warner's initial list of releases for the format.

New Line is expected to start releasing HD-DVDs in 2007, and The Player has not been mentioned on any HD news sites I visit... If they really wanted to take home the format war this spring they'd relase the lord of the rings trilogy ASAP. anyways, yeah, The Player is not on HD-DVD ad is yet to be announced.

SncDthMnky wrote:I just hope when I'm older I never attack someone that can not even legally drink in the united states for not liking a director's later in life work, whose willing to take advice and check out the earlier gold.

The first things I saw - I think I was about 21 at the time - were M*A*S*H, The Player and Brewster McCloud, and I was pretty impressed. I knew nothing about Altman at the time; I thought that M*A*S*H was excellent, save for the last 15 minutes or so; The Player consider great at several levels. Brewster is a weird one, probably not the place to start, but the humor is dark, raw and ruthless, which I liked, and both the performances and cinematography are excellent.

I would like to send my condolences out to Catherine Altman, Robert Altman's wife, as well as all of his immediate family, close friends, co-workers, and all of his inner circle.

I feel as if I've just had the wind knocked out of me and my heart aches. If not only my heart but the heart of Mr. Altman's wife and family and many fellow actors/artists that admire him for his work and love him for making people laugh whenever and however he could.

Robert Altman made dreams possible for many independent aspiring filmmakers, as well as creating roles for countless actors.

I am lucky enough to of been able to work with Robert Altman amongst the other greats on a film that I can genuinely say created a turning point in my career.

I learned so much from Altman and he was the closest thing to my father and grandfather that I really do believe I've had in several years.

The point is, he made a difference.
He left us with a legend that all of us have the ability to do.

So every day when you wake up.
Look in the mirror and thank god for every second you have and cherish all moments.
The fighting, the anger, the drama is tedious.

Please just take each moment day by day and consider yourself lucky to breathe and feel at all and smile. Be thankful.

Life comes once, doesn't 'keep coming back' and we all take such advantage of what we have.
When we shouldn't.....

Make a searching and fearless moral inventory of yourselves' (12st book)

- Everytime there's a triumph in the world a million souls hafta be trampled on. - Altman

Its true. But treasure each triumph as they come.

If I can do anything for those who are in a very hard time right now, as I'm one of them with hearing this news, please take advantage of the fact that I'm just a phone call away. God Bless, peace and love always.

Thank You,
"BE ADEQUITE"
Lindsay Lohan

I agree with the concept that Altman is not for all tastes, but not with using an ability to fall down and worship the Long Goodbye as the litmus test. That film was among the first half-dozen Altmans I ever saw, and I honestly didn't get that much out of it on an initial viewing. Certainly the gap between the overwhelming praise I'd seen heaped on the film and my own experience of it might have discouraged my exploration of other beloved Altman films, had I not already completely taken to heart the Player, Nashville, McCabe & Mrs. Miller and Three Women. So my relatively restrained reaction to the Long Goodbye became a minor speedbump on the road to my great appreciation of practically every one of his films I've come in contact with since. I love California Split, Come Back to the Five and Dime, Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean, Images, Tanner '88, Tanner on Tanner, a Prairie Home Companion, and others. Especially the Company, a beautiful film that has become a real piece of "comfort cinema" for me and was the first thing I wanted to watch after last week's sad announcement.

There are still a few I've yet to see (Quintet for one), but the only ones I haven't really liked are Beyond Therapy and Vincent and Theo. I'll even rise to the defense of Pret-a-Porter if called for.

Until now, I still haven't revisited the Long Goodbye since that initial screening. But I just got the disc out from the local library. I sorta get the impression I'll really have to revoke my Altman-fan status if I don't respond to it better this time around. Hopefully that won't have to happen.

Fletch F. Fletch wrote:

davidhare wrote:But then again you maybe need a sensibility attuned to the weirdness that is America, if not actually an American sensibility. Among many streams and torrents in Altman's movies is the sense of individuals adrift in an uncaring or corrupt society. But his taste and sensibility is somehow indefinably American, in the best sense, and he was one of the great Americans.

I think you nailed Altman's sensibility perfectly. He is certainly an acquired taste and not for everyone. I always felt that his films dealt with the behavior of people as opposed to traditional linear narratives. Altman seemed to be interested in exploring how people interacted with one another and how relationships were often messy and chaotic (Nashville, Short Cuts, etc.).

And as somebody who is drawn to dialogue and character details much more than narratives, I suppose I'm an ideal subject for Altman viewing

Personally, The Long Goodbye is, hands down, my fave Altman film, followed by California Split. I love how, in these films, he takes established genres (the noir and the buddy comedy) and subverts them and completely makes them his own.

He mentioned that, (I think on the McCabe commentary, but maybe in a print interview or somewhere else), that he tackled all the genres in that era specifically to have a quicker road to a starting point, which is an interesting way to look at it. (If you go back to Countdown, his genre sampling even included Science Fiction.)

I love The Long Goodbye for about a million reasons, even above it's own intrinsic merits. I like most takes on Chandler and Marlowe, even the ones that fail (which this one definitely didn't) and I am always interested in seeing any film written by the assured, professional Leigh Brackett.

Polybius wrote:I love The Long Goodbye for about a million reasons, even above it's own intrinsic merits. I like most takes on Chandler and Marlowe, even the ones that fail (which this one definitely didn't) and I am always interested in seeing any film written by the assured, professional Leigh Brackett.

Agreed. I also like how Altman conceived of Marlowe in this film as "Rip Van Marlowe" someone who's been basically asleep since the '40s and wakes up in the '70s as a man out of time. He's said in interviews that their approach was to have Marlowe act like he just came out of the '40s and had to deal with all the oddities of L.A. in the '70s. That culture clash is one of the things that endears the film to me.

THE LONG GOODBYE is not only one of Altman's supreme masterpieces, but also features what is probably the finest performance by one of my very favorite actors, Elliott Gould.

And don't you love that score in all its wonderful little idyossincratic variants?

It's one the greatest of all film scores.