criterionforum.org

Antoine Doinel wrote:I know how revered Jonathan Rosenbaum is around these parts, but his refusal to see The Departed is a little childish at this point.

What a wanker! For a so-called film critic to refuse to see a film because it has won awards or whatever his reason is, is ridiculous. The Departed is a fine film and I have no idea what his reasons are for not seeing it and why he would refuse to see a Scorsese film. What a fucking idiot!

Also, he lambasts the Oscars because no-one mentioned George Bush. What the fuck! I am sick and tired of the Oscars being hijacked by activists who think we actually give a fuck what some multi-millionaire Hollywood star thinks about world politics. They criticise everyone claiming that more should be done for global warming while they fucking retreat to their mansions where their electricity bill equals the gross national product of an African country. They fly in from around the country to attend the Oscars in fucking carbom emitting airplanes! They also fly around the world to shoot their films on location but this is ok for the environment. And not everyone can afford to fucking install solar panels in their homes. You know, some people don't even own their own homes!

The most hilarious thing was when Melissa Etheridges was singing the global warming song and behind her on the big screen was telling the audiences ways to help ease global warming and one way was to catch mass transport! Yeah, like anyone in that room would ever catch a train or a bus to help the environment. They all came in fucking stretched limousines, for Christ sake! Hypcrites!

Hollywood is going crazy about global warming but global warming is the biggets fucking con. While Al Gore tells us that by the end of the century cities like New York will be flooded under water in some parts due to rising sea levels up to 8 metres as a result of global warming, the ACTUAL scientific research states that sea levels will rise from 19cm to 59 cm at worst. In Australia this year, the Australian of the Year was awarded to Tim Flannery, another global warming doomsayer who goes around the world lecturing about global warming. Guess what, he charges US$50,000 per lecture! These guys are pocketing millions and are using a fear-based campaign to get our attention.

davidhare wrote:First of all Rosenbaum doesn't say he "refuses" to see Departed. He's just not in a hurry. He clearly expresses disappointment with Marty's recent career, and I happen to share that particular view.

Okay, he doesn't flat out "refuse" to see the film, but it's really all a matter of semantics at this point, and of attitude. By not seeing it, he is essentially saying that the near universal praise of his colleagues still isn't reason enough for him to lower himself to watch the film.

Whether or not you like Scorsese's recent output, he is still one of America's most important filmmakers and to still hold out on the film at this point is more out of arrogance than any kind of valid reason.

Besides whether he likes Marty's recent films or not, isn't it like his JOB to see the film? Film critic, right?

Yet, he sees the merit in reviewing this film. Is it because Albert Brooks is Jewish and Scorsese is, well, not?

marty wrote:Besides whether he likes Marty's recent films or not, isn't it like his JOB to see the film? Film critic, right?

Well, there is a reason that J.R. Jones and Pat Graham have jobs at the Reader. It appears that the critics are allowed a little leeway to go towards their particular interests.

The point that seems to be ticking most off, though, is that he's making his apathy so public. I think this is at least the third time he's said he doesn't care (which seems to undercut his sentiment). All the same, it's his choice. He doesn't have to care.

marty wrote:Yet, he sees the merit in reviewing this film?

As David E. points out, Rosenbaum does have aesthetics to which he adheres whether to his detriment or not. Brooks's aesthetic seems to be one of these. As shown on DVDBeaver, he considers Real Life undervalued and Modern Romance perhaps one of his best. If memory serves me right, he also had a positive review printed about Lost in America in the book "Seduced and Abandoned".

Personally I wanted to fling Modern Romance out my window after 20 minutes but maybe Rosenbaum just respects Brooks as a filmmaker in the same way that you do Scorsese.

marty wrote:Is it because Albert Brooks is Jewish and Scorsese is, well, not?

My god, Marty, you may be right. Perhaps he could only find merit in a Brooks movie because he's a SEMITE (ethnic, of course, since Rosenbaum's an atheist)! It's a conspiracy!

Oedipax wrote:I agree, it's aggravating - specifically in the way he continues to call attention to it as if it were some kind of badge of honor.

And if Ebert ever tried pulling that crap, everyone would be calling for his neck.

marty wrote:What a wanker! For a so-called film critic to refuse to see a film because it has won awards or whatever his reason is, is ridiculous. The Departed is a fine film and I have no idea what his reasons are for not seeing it and why he would refuse to see a Scorsese film. What a fucking idiot!

For once, I agree with you!

Rosenbaum's always been lukewarm on Scorsese. I believe only King Of Comedy makes his top 1000 movies list.

GringoTex wrote:Rosenbaum's always been lukewarm on Scorsese. I believe only King Of Comedy makes his top 1000 movies list.

Yet, this Best Picture Oscar winningfilm merits a review!

Kudzu wrote:

marty wrote:Besides whether he likes Marty's recent films or not, isn't it like his JOB to see the film? Film critic, right?

Well, there is a reason that J.R. Jones and Pat Graham have jobs at the Reader. It appears that the critics are allowed a little leeway to go towards their particular interests.

The point that seems to be ticking most off, though, is that he's making his apathy so public. I think this is at least the third time he's said he doesn't care (which seems to undercut his sentiment). All the same, it's his choice. He doesn't have to care.

Actually, since he is a film critic by trade, he does have to care if he wants anyone to take his work seriously. I'm sure he doesn't limit his viewing habits to just the films he has/wants to review. And frankly, not watching a film lauded by fans and critics worldwide by a major American filmmaker for no clear reason other than "I don't wanna" makes him no better than the reviewers at DVD Verdict.

If he really has no clue - even peripherally - as to why The Departed is garnering acclaim, then maybe he should pass the torch to someone else.

He's also admitted to not having seen Fanny and Alexander. Big deal. So there are lots of films to see. And if he's not so hot on Scorsese, why bother with another one.

There is a huge difference between simply not having seen a film, and being "resolved not to see the film". There are lots of films that many critics and film lovers haven't yet seen. There are also many cinematic cornerstones that critics argue about. But, there are fewer films that critics go out of their way to not watch and to practically wear it as a badge of honor. It's even laughable that he tries to use Harvey Weinstein as an excuse for not watching the film when he had absolutely nothing to do with the film. Nice try though.

I don't care if he fucking hates the film - but if he's going to make some kind of stand against the film and Scorsese's work, the least he could do is watch it. Moreover, to equate the film as another in Scorsese's canon like the latest addition to the Bond franchise is completely ridiculous.

denti alligator wrote:He's also admitted to not having seen Fanny and Alexander. Big deal. So there are lots of films to see. And if he's not so hot on Scorsese, why bother with another one.

And yet he has written books called Life At The Movies and Essential Cinema. It seems to me he has better things to do than waste his time watching films from "hacK' directors like Scorsese and Bergman. He's a snob.

Admittedly being a fan of the Departed and a major Scorsese fan, I have to agree that Rosenbaum is being a bit riduclous. None the less, lately I've just come to accept the fact that Rosenbaum is essentially an "art film" critic. I'm certainly labeling him but he seems to be far more concerned with talking about the next Hou/Kiarostami/Tarr/Godard etc film (not a bad thing) than reviewing major blockbusters. I guess I never really considered a film critic in the same sense that most other critics are.

moreysurf8 wrote:None the less, lately I've just come to accept the fact that Rosenbaum is essentially an "art film" critic. I'm certainly labeling him but he seems to be far more concerned with talking about the next Hou/Kiarostami/Tarr/Godard etc film (not a bad thing) than reviewing major blockbusters.

You mean "art films" like this.

Really, I don't see what the fuss is all about. THE DEPARTED is indeed inferior Scorsese, if an improvement over some of his more recent efforts, undertaken for cash b/c the studios would not finance SILENCE. I don't regret watching the film once, but one can entirely understand Rosenbaum's hesitance. It is impossible for even a critic to see every film in existence.

...that positive review of Haggis' Crash is pretty stomach-churning, though

Nothing wrote: It is impossible for even a critic to see every film in existence.

That argument really doesn't hold water when the critic is actually wilfully not seeing the film. And not only that, but publicly going around saying he is refusing to see the film.

I'm not expecting Rosenbaum (or any critic) to be an encyclopedia of film, but I don't think its too out of the question for them to make an honest effort to watch at the least the contemporary works of any active, major filmmakers.

Nothing wrote:I don't regret watching the film once, but one can entirely understand Rosenbaum's hesitance.

...except Rosenbaum himself who is basing his opinion on assumption and attitude rather than on the experience of having watched the film.

denti alligator wrote:He's also admitted to not having seen Fanny and Alexander. Big deal. So there are lots of films to see. And if he's not so hot on Scorsese, why bother with another one.

I think you're confusing him with Pat Graham, his former colleague and fellow blogger at the Chicago Reader.

Many of you are also getting a bit carried away with your over-zealous attempt to villify Rosenbaum. At least he's candid about why he's not seeing The Departed, whether you agree with him or not. Personally, while I enjoy reading Rosenbaum's writings, his views on modern American cinema are increasingly bizzare. I mean, The Illusionist made his 2006 top ten list for goodness' sake.

He also doesn't hate Scorsese. While he doesn't love his films, he's admitted his appreciation for several, most particularly The King of Comedy (which I would agree with Rosenbaum, is one of Scorsese's best films).

In the link that started all this, Rosenbaum doesn't say that he is refusing to watch the film. Rather, he says that the Oscar win isn't going to influence his decision one way or the other - wise, surely?

How many US critics bothered to review the latest James Benning film, a filmmaker who is arguably more in form and relevant than the Scorsese of 2007?

Nothing wrote:In the link that started all this, Rosenbaum doesn't say that he is refusing to watch the film. Rather, he says that the Oscar win isn't going to influence his decision one way or the other - wise, surely?

No, he has already been quoted in Variety (see above) as being "resolved" to not seeing the film.

In fact, he goes out of his way the first link I provided to ask what the hype is around the film:

Jonathan Rosenbaum wrote:But if I'm wrong [about his belief that Martin Scorsese's Oscar was more a consolation prize rather than for a film worthy of the accolade]--if there's something exceptional or different about this movie that's being recognized--could somebody explain what is it?

The Oscars shouldn't motivate anyone to watch a film, but surely the praise from his colleagues and fellow bloggers which he claims to love reading should at least sway him. Is he really that oblivious?

Via_Chicago wrote:Personally, while I enjoy reading Rosenbaum's writings, his views on modern American cinema are increasingly bizzare. I mean, The Illusionist made his 2006 top ten list for goodness' sake.

As well as other art film classics he has included in his top ten lists over the years like Ask The Dust, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, School of Rock, Cold Mountain and The Sixth Sense.

marty wrote:

Via_Chicago wrote:Personally, while I enjoy reading Rosenbaum's writings, his views on modern American cinema are increasingly bizzare. I mean, The Illusionist made his 2006 top ten list for goodness' sake.

As well as other art film classics he has included in his top ten lists over the years like Cold Mountain

I hope someone let him know that Harvey Weinstein was involved with that.

I'd be suspicious of anyone who praises The Departed too highly, though. Nobody has an answer for my James Benning question, I see.

Warner Brothers has made the script for the film available for download here.

Nothing wrote:I'd be suspicious of anyone who praises The Departed too highly, though. Nobody has an answer for my James Benning question, I see.

What do you want us to say? "Oooohh, James Benning, this guy knows his films." You fall in the same category that Rosenbaum falls into and that is you love the sound of your own voice. Do you also think that Iranian cinema is the best thing since slice bread. Yes, you are comparing Scorsese with Benning. Great, we are all very impressed. So what's the point? You may as well compare Scorsese to Claire Denis and Chantal Akerman. Like Rosenbaum, you are a snob and elitist who thinks his own shit doesn't smell....

marty -

I would like you to consider that Benning is one of America's most valuable filmmakers, with a career as long as Scorsese, and yet Rosenbaum is one of the few American critics to watch/review/champion his work - surely a more valuable use of time than passing comment on a mediocre studio release that has already been given far too much column space.

nb. where on the forum did you and Mr. Hare take your Israeli discussion? Do you have a link?

Nothing wrote:I would like you to consider that Benning is one of America's most valuable filmmakers, with a career as long as Scorsese, and yet Rosenbaum is one of the few American critics to watch/review/champion his work - surely a more valuable use of time than passing comment on a mediocre studio release that has already been given far too much column space.

That's fine if that's all that Rosenbaum does. Yet, while he despises Hollywood mainstream films and Oscar winners, he still reviews films like Crash and The Adventures of Sharkboy and Lavagirl in 3-D.