criterionforum.org

Is the DVD of "Jazz '34" in widescreen or pan-n-scam?

MoonlitKnight wrote:Is the DVD of "Jazz '34" in widescreen or pan-n-scam?

How long is this version of Jazz 34? I understand there is a 50 min version and a 70 (or so) min version - I saw the latter at the London Film Festival a few years back.

Dr Amicus wrote:

MoonlitKnight wrote:Is the DVD of "Jazz '34" in widescreen or pan-n-scam?

How long is this version of Jazz 34? I understand there is a 50 min version and a 70 (or so) min version - I saw the latter at the London Film Festival a few years back.

It's definitely the longer cut and is advertised as such; Imdb lists it as 1.85:1, but I would need to double-check to make sure --although wasn't it directed for television?

Can anyone tell me whether the cut Sony DVD of 'California Split' still has that scene with George Segal by himself in the bar and some drunken woman talking about her dog and then shouting "f*ck you, fa*got!" at him with his back to her while she walks out of the bar? Because I won't buy the DVD if that scene isn't there.

That scene is still there. In fact, I don't think much was cut at all. The problem with the DVD was mainly music rights.

stereo wrote:

Dr Amicus wrote:

MoonlitKnight wrote:Is the DVD of "Jazz '34" in widescreen or pan-n-scam?

How long is this version of Jazz 34? I understand there is a 50 min version and a 70 (or so) min version - I saw the latter at the London Film Festival a few years back.

It's definitely the longer cut and is advertised as such; Imdb lists it as 1.85:1, but I would need to double-check to make sure --although wasn't it directed for television?

If you have to double-check, it's probably not widescreen. I'm not sure where it was shown first, but perhaps it was one of those films shot in 35mm then altered for exhibition at the flim festival circuit. Maybe I'll get this after all.

I have the Jazz '34 DVD and can confirm that it is indeed 1.33:1.

Edit: I had said "pan-and-scanned" rather than just 1.33:1, based not only on the OAR listed at IMDB but also on thinking I recalled seeing it in widescreen on cable when it aired, but come to think of it I really can't remember the ratio.

IMDb constantly lists wrong aspect rations, at least from certain films I've seen. I'm not certain that it wasn't shot in widescreen, but it was made for television, it could be that IMDb listed it wrong.

LightBulbFilm wrote:IMDb constantly lists wrong aspect rations, at least from certain films I've seen. I'm not certain that it wasn't shot in widescreen, but it was made for television, it could be that IMDb listed it wrong.

...or, as I said earlier, was shot in 1.33:1 for its original presentation and then modified for 1.85:1 for its tour on the film festival circuit. That would probably make this whole discussion moot, and make it OK to buy this makeshift DVD.

tojoed wrote:That scene is still there. In fact, I don't think much was cut at all. The problem with the DVD was mainly music rights.

thanks tojoed!

You're welcome. I hope you go ahead and get this DVD, because California Split is arguably Altman's greatest film, and it also has a wonderful commentary with the writer Joe Walsh, Altman, Gould and Segal.

Honestly, it would be lunacy not to buy it if it's not difficult to find.

Actually there are about three minutes of fairly substantial music-related cuts to California Split on the DVD, detailed at length in the Beaver review. I haven't seen it, but a friend of mine felt the deletions made a noticeable difference.

There's a quote there from Altman on how he participated in the changes, for what it's worth. But as with Kubrick and the digital orgy debacle in Eyes Wide Shut, I feel like it's dubious to say that the director "approved" this kind of changes when the alternatives are either a) not releasing it at all or b) some studio flunky making changes anyway, without the director's input.

I agree with tojoed. My only experience of the film is from the R1 dvd and it didn't stop me from thinking that it's possibly Altman's greatest film. Certainly as good as anything else he made, and the best film ever made on the gambling lifestyle and psyche.

Cinetwist, I don't know if you've listened to the commentary, but on it Altman says that the extras in the poker and racetrack scenes were members of CinAnon ( a 12 step programme for addicts in the film industry). And, of course, Joe Walsh, Altman and the two leads were noted gamblers.

I think this is Altman's most personal film, and, as you rightly say, the greatest ever made about what it is to be a gambler.

Yes Altman was a very big gambler, pretty deep into it at one point I believe.

Amarillo Slim is in there too.

This line from Altman sums it up for me, ''for years I wanted to do a gambling film that had nothing but the ambience of gambling, and then point out it had nothing to do with money." That is why Altman succeeded in making the best film on gambling there is, and anyone who has ever been a gambler will understand that.

It's also one of his most technically brilliant films, especially in the use of sound. But visually it is probably my favourite too, after The Long Goodbye maybe.

Good to hear such positive comments on CALIFORNIA SPLIT and I concur with its elevation in status within the "Big 10" (that incredible ten film run from MASH to THREE WOMEN) of Altman's 70's run. As per Cinetwist the sound is superb, undoubtedly due to its being the test run of the Lions Gate 8-Track sound system as implemented by Jim Webb and Chris McLauglin. I think it's been overlooked in the past due mainly to being the last (and considered least) of the post MASH Altmans before the breakout of NASHVILLE. After McCABE Atlman's films got very spotty distribution. I never saw it (or IMAGES or THIEVES LIKE US) theatrically until they showed up in rep later in the decade. Despite this unfair reputation SPLIT is a really great crowd pleaser (provided you can attract a crowd) and has several standout comedy set pieces. The angry lady at the bar and the piccalo scene never fail to get howls of laughter and the scene where Gould gets his payback usually gets a cheer as well. Gould and Segal make such a great team it's a shame they didn't work together again. Yeah the end is a downer but that's the point. After the high of a winning streak there's no place to go but down. Despite the ridiculous trims due to music licensing (the conglomorate cart pulling the horse) it's a great experience on DVD as well.

What drives me nuts is that all the video stores that had bootlegs of California Split dumped them when the DVD came out, so I can't find an uncut copy for comparison.

Props55, you've seen SPLIT in a theatre and I saw it several times in the 1970s myself.

Do you notice the cuts made due to music rights? I must say, I only really noticed them at the end.

tojoed, it's been so long since I've seen the original version that I'm not at all sure. The bit with Gould and Shotwell at her piano seems very truncated and I suspect that part of their dialogue was deleted along with the music. I think someone posted the cuts in detail on this forum but it may have been before the big crash of '04. I wish I had kept my old pan'n'scan VHS from Cinemax but I foolishly dumped it after purchasing the DVD upon release. Then I read the reviews about the cuts! Also wish I had known about those boots Perkins mentioned. Were they widescreen I wonder?

I'm sure any bootlegs out there looked like shit, but it'd be worth tracking one down just to scan through after watching the DVD, to check out the "deleted scenes" and original audio.

Thinking of picking up 2 Altman dvds released in the UK, and have two questions:
1) Anyone know if one of the two recent UK releases of Streamers are in the right aspect ratio (the Australian release is 4:3)?
2) Is the recently released, longer television cut of Vincent and Theo worth getting? How does it compare to the theatrical cut?

Something I've been informed recently and updated my DVD Beaver review - apparently the version currently available on netflix via streaming is without any music edits that are on DVD. Can anyone confirm this?

Streamers will be released on R1 DVD by Shout! Factory on January 19.

Feego wrote:Streamers will be released on R1 DVD by Shout! Factory on January 19.

Great news. I thought that might have been the one that Criterion was after that fell through. I'm glad it ended up with a company that will take good care of it.

Ashirg wrote:Something I've been informed recently and updated my DVD Beaver review - apparently the version currently available on netflix via streaming is without any music edits that are on DVD. Can anyone confirm this?

I just checked, and yes, all of the music cut from the DVD of California Split is retained for the version streaming on Netflix, including Basketball Jones. The downside is that this print is cropped to 1.85:1 from Altman's beautiful 2.35:1. So, I guess you either have to sacrifice the film's cinematography to get the additional three minutes of scenes and original audio, or watch it in 2.35:1 with the absence of three minutes and the music soundtrack altered. I guess, since the DVD is out of print, the only way to see it without forking over a lot of cash is through Netflix and you get the original audio (and at least it's in 1.85 and not 1.33, but you still miss a lot of image).