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Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:12 pm
by HerrSchreck
zedz wrote:Oh my God, there was a video for that? Now I'm officially excited.
To be perfectly frank, I didin't know there was an 'official video' for it either (much less one that was--apparently, according to the yt uploader-- ranked one of the 100 best videos of all time by Rolling Stone!)... I just searched the song thinking I'd come up with an uploaded mp3 with a still image of fishheads, or B&B running over it. I nearly squeaked my way into heaven when they got to line "Ask a fishhead anything you want to-- they can't answer... they can't talk," and cut to the shot of the fish head on a desk laying on its side next to the mouthpiece of a telephone.

These are the fruits of friendly ballbusting between learned colleagues.

I shall see SOUTH forthwith-- has anyone seen both THE FORBIDDEN QUEST and SOUTH? I'm wondering if there's any overlap in footage.... I forget whose expedition-footage Delpuit appropriated for his film.

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 10:25 pm
by Sloper
myrnaloyisdope wrote:Alice Guy's La naissance, la vie et la mort du Christ - I'm a sucker for passion-play films, I didn't enjoy this one as much as the Ferdinand Zecca version, but still it's a solid retelling.
I've only seen bits of the Zecca version (about ten minutes or so) on Youtube, since I am now officially too broke to buy any more dvds for this project, but it does look amazing. The effects and the use of colour are what seem to make it really special, although to my eyes the whole thing is a bit kitschy, and I can't help thinking of Monty Python when Jesus flies off to Heaven in a cloud. I'd love to include this on my list, though - it clearly deserves more attention - but would obviously want to see the whole thing first.

The only really 'kitsch' moment in Guy's film is shamelessly cribbed from Zecca, namely the shot of Jesus' face appearing on the cloth. Otherwise, from what I've seen, I feel that Naissance, Vie et Mort is by far the superior film. No one else seems to like it that much, so I stuck it on again to see if I'd been deluded before. But I still think this is the best pre-1910 film I've seen. It feels repetitive to keep going on about 'great/striking compositions', but I guess that's a symptom of the period...

Take the scene where Peter denies Jesus: this is nicely done in Zecca's film, and the effect of having Jesus walk through a colonnade in the background was clearly one of many things that Guy borrowed. But her version of this episode is so much richer, in the painterly juxtaposition of light and dark areas of the set, in the interplay between foreground and background, in the direction of the actors and the placement of realistic/telling details in the frame. Peter sits cooking a meal (as far as I can tell) on the ground, a pitch-dark archway spread over him, surrounded by milling strangers. The actor playing him isn't great, but the direction and the decor brilliantly convey the sense that he is trying to lose himself in a crowd, and in mindless tasks. So there's a psychological and emotional intelligence in the set-up. The way the extras are all given things to do lends the scene verisimilitude; throughout the film, there is really so much going on that it's hard to know where to look, which among other things assuages the 'school nativity play' atmosphere that dogs so many films of this kind. After a while, Jesus enters, far away in the background, walking through a brightly lit colonnade we didn't even realise was there before. After our attention has been focused for so long on the murky, steamy foreground setting, this effect is extremely powerful. When Jesus re-enters the frame from the right, and passes by the archway, looking in from the light at Peter hiding in the darkness, the moment has a real dramatic impact.

I also wanted to single out a terrific location shot, the walk to Golgotha. The initial composition is very nice in itself: Jesus, bearing the cross, descends a slope strewn with rocks that appear bleached white in the sun (very common, but beautiful, effect in these early films, most memorably used in The Invaders), while the upper part of the frame is occupied by black, gnarled trees which block out the sky. Then, as Jesus passes in front of the camera and begins to ascend the slope to the left, the camera pans in that direction, gradually replacing the dark foliage with a bright, sunny stretch of sky, towards which Jesus is travelling. It sounds naff the way I describe it, but it's actually very subtly done, with a perfect sense of timing, and of the symmetry and reversal between the two compositions. The dignified, leisurely quality of the film - as opposed to Zecca's, which appears to be quite histrionic - is what makes it really special, and what makes me want to compare it with Dreyer (whose President, by the way, is currently in the top 5 of my list - this is coming from a drooling fan, admittedly, but it's not to be missed, shipping costs be damned!).

And as so often with these films, turn the music off - it starts out okay but quickly becomes repetitive, and again this sanctimonious organ-oriented crap they stick on the religious films just takes me right back to childhood memories of dressing up as a shepherd so the Virgin Mary could vomit down my back.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, this film was rumoured to have been directed by Guy's assistant, Victorin Jasset, and I'm tempted to believe it, given the pedestrian character of all her other films that I've seen - everything on the Gaumont set, The Making of an American Citizen, and Falling Leaves. Glancing at Jasset's Wikipedia page, and seeing what an accomplished director he was in his own right before his death in 1913, makes the rumour seem all the more convincing... But I suppose we'll never know. Apologies to Guy's memory if I'm wrong about this.
myrnaloyisdope wrote:Léonce aime les morilles - Fun and charming film featuring Leonce and Poupette hunting for mushrooms unsuccessfully. Plenty of gags including an unfortunate Englishman who ends up eating a sponge and becoming so thirsty he drinks a reservoir.

Le roman d'un mousse - the other feature included in the boxset. The film is about a wealthy countess who falls for a slimy business man set on exploiting her weathy and her son who gets sent off to work as a ship-boy. It's uneven and occasionally slow-going but the ship sequences are outstanding, particularly when the boy and his surrogate guardian are floating on a dinghy in the middle of the sea. It's a shame the film didn't focus more on the boy's ship life, as that is the most interesting part of the film. Perret makes great use of the ocean backdrop, and more than a few shots reminded me of Land Beyond the Sunset.
Glad to hear someone else liked the mushroom film; I'm pretty sure it will be on my list.

I re-watched Le roman d'un mousse as well, and liked it more the second time. It's certainly slow-going, especially in the first 25 minutes or so. In a way this is quite impressive in itself, and something I admired about L'enfant de Paris: the sheer time Perret spends setting things up, showing little to no concern about holding the audience's attention with Feuillade-style intrigue, stunts, violence, etc, seems very brave when you stand back from it, especially considering these are among the first feature films. Still, from the moment Werb starts teaching Charles-Henri how to smoke, this is something approaching a masterpiece. I mentioned above the 'leisurely' quality of the Christ film, and Perret has leisure in spades. There's something almost philosophical about the way he communicates this humdrum, gossamer-thin story through a succession of lingering pretty pictures. There's also a brilliant effect, when a poisoned jug of water is placed on a table in the foreground, and as the servant goes around the room turning the lights off, the jug remains isolated in this little pool of light. It's the kind of moment that makes me want to gag myself so I won't mention Hitchcock.

The extras on the Gaumont set provide loads of tantalising glimpses of Perret's other films, including some very odd 'symboliste' stuff. He was obviously incredibly versatile, not to mention prolific, so here's hoping we'll see more of his work emerge in the next few years.
lubitsch wrote:And does nobody really give a damn about the first feature docus like Battle of the Somme and South?
I ordered The Battle of the Somme ages of ages ago, and Amazon keep telling me it's delayed. I think I'll have it by the end of the month, though.

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 10:57 pm
by zedz
Sloper wrote:There's also a brilliant effect, when a poisoned jug of water is placed on a table in the foreground, and as the servant goes around the room turning the lights off, the jug remains isolated in this little pool of light. It's the kind of moment that makes me want to gag myself so I won't mention Hitchcock.
This sounds like a moment in Rivette's La Bande des quatre which I'd always assumed was a Hitchcock allusion, but since he was such a fan of Feuillade, maybe this was actually a nod to Perret?

And:

The Blue Bird

Viewed as promised, in order to avoid being abused by a dead fish.

Although this kind of allegorical fantasy is not my thing at all, this film is so beautifully mounted, and Tourneur has such an unfailing compositional eye that I was charmed and impressed by its overall splendidness. There’s a great variety of striking and subtle lighting effects throughout the film, but like the copious in-camera special effects, they’re all of a piece, in service to the story. And that story, in all its odd specificity and morbidity, is a lot stranger and more interesting than most children’s films. Anyway, onto the list it goes.

And:

That Edison set has finally arrived, so I'll undertake to get to the recommended films (please add any more that spring to mind). Any nice words for The Unbeliever?

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 11:07 pm
by nsps
Sloper wrote: I've only seen bits of the Zecca version (about ten minutes or so) on Youtube, since I am now officially too broke to buy any more dvds for this project, but it does look amazing.
I'm surprised I can't find the full movie online anywhere, since it's surely public domain by now. Netflix was streaming it, but it was sadly a victim of of The Great Silent Instant Viewing Purge of May 2010.

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 11:39 pm
by swo17
Sloper wrote:Otherwise, from what I've seen, I feel that Naissance, Vie et Mort is by far the superior film. No one else seems to like it that much
It should probably feature in my list as well. Jesus was the Jude Law in 2004 of pre-1920s films, and this one was surely his I Heart Huckabees and/or Closer.

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:00 am
by Sloper
zedz wrote:That Edison set has finally arrived, so I'll undertake to get to the recommended films (please add any more that spring to mind). Any nice words for The Unbeliever?
I watched this in a marathon slog over two or three days. It was gruelling, and perhaps not the best way to approach it, but the whole thing is a wonderful cumulative lesson in the history of cinema - or rather of the ups and downs of one early studio. A lot of it is tedious, but good for you. Like bran. And The Passer-by is that much more impressive when you've just sat through hours and hours of static, pedestrian films about clerics chasing cars, or women chasing Frenchmen, or indecipherable goings on in caves.

I've been meaning to revisit it myself, but glancing through the list here are a few I remember liking: on disc 1, The Execution of Mary Queen of Scots, one of those famous early trick films which supposedly made people faint, and I find it to be eerily convincing even now; on disc 2, The Ex-Convict and The Kleptomaniac are a great couple of 'social conscience films', the latter vaguely looking forward to Griffith's A Corner in Wheat; on disc 3, A Little Girl Who Did Not Believe in Santa Claus (sue me it brings a tear to my eye), The House of Cards, The Passer-by and The Totville Eye. On disc 4, One Touch of Nature is handsome and moving, if you put your innocent cap on quite firmly. Other than that my memories are hazy...I'm sure there are lots of other gems, and I'm guessing you'll enjoy some of the actualities more than I did.

But as for The Unbeliever... Well I'd be fascinated to hear what others think of this, but I found it desperately, painfully bad. The weirdest thing about it is the editing, which is hyperactive to the point of incoherence at times. Maybe the frame rate is off or something, but in any case the story is deeply obnoxious, and you'll be rooting for Erich von Stroheim's character all the way. I'd welcome disagreement though; I may just have been in a rotten mood when I watched this.
swo17 wrote:Jesus was the Jude Law in 2004 of pre-1920s films, and this one was surely his I Heart Huckabees and/or Closer.
A quote for the dvd cover, I think!

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:35 am
by Gregory
Sloper wrote:on disc 2, The Ex-Convict and The Kleptomaniac are a great couple of 'social conscience films', the latter vaguely looking forward to Griffith's A Corner in Wheat
I think the Kleptomaniac even more closely anticipates One is Business, the Other is Crime. For me, A Corner in Wheat is the finest of the lot because of the dreamlike feel it achieves at certain moments, as with the best of Griffith's shorts.

Another Edison from the set that I'll probably vote for is The Public and Private Care of Infants. Unlike some of the more high-minded social reform pictures of the era, this one is unflinching direct and brutally matter-of-fact. It's pretty much unlike anything that got a commercial release during this era because it was an “informational” film, not shown in the usual venues.

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:51 am
by Gregory
Sloper wrote:Dreyer (whose President, by the way, is currently in the top 5 of my list - this is coming from a drooling fan, admittedly, but it's not to be missed, shipping costs be damned!)
I've put this off for years because I'm afraid of it being way too contrasty and I've thought eventually there might be some news about a new restoration. By now, though, I'm starting to feel bad that I didn't watch it for this list. Do you (or anyone) have a dissenting view about just how far the contrast deviates from how it was filmed? Bear in mind that I would be watching the disc on a digital projector which could further obliterate shadow detail.

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:56 am
by knives
Assuming it's the same as what Swo showed me, thanks a mil man, It should be fine contrast/transfer wise. It looked a good thirty years younger that it was to my eyes. Only problem was with some of the Intertitles were fuzzy. That shouldn't be too distracting though and this is truly a top ten, five for me, movie at the least. The only complaints I can think of are super-nitpicky and relevant only to the prologue.

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 7:46 am
by Sloper
Gregory, I'm no judge of such things and if Nick Wrigley says it's too contrasty I suppose he would know. I tend to expect this sort of thing with these very old films - the bleached white/hazy pitch dark effect - and have always assumed it's a consequence of the age of the print and the use of natural light. Perhaps naively, it's one of the things I treasure about such films, especially The President. But I should let someone more knowledgeable talk about that. All I can say is, I've only ever watched the film on a small, crappy CRT screen and thought it looked wonderful (though yes, the intertitles are punishing).

It is, however, very expensive to get hold of, and I'd like to think that Criterion are preparing some sort of Eclipse release for Dreyer's silents, so I personally won't judge you if you skip it for this list! There's always more to see.

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:55 pm
by Gregory
Thanks, Sloper et al. I have decided to watch it. I also ordered Der Var Engang and Leaves From Satan's Book for next round, so I selfishly hope Criterion doesn't announce a Dreyer Eclipse too soon.

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 5:07 pm
by Tommaso
Gregory wrote: I selfishly hope Criterion doesn't announce a Dreyer Eclipse too soon.
Oh, as long as they made it a 4-discer with "Die Gezeichneten", "Master of the House" with original intertitles, "Glomdalsbruden" and "Two People", it would be the release of the year.... :wink:

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 5:35 pm
by HerrSchreck
zedz wrote:
Sloper wrote:Any nice words for The Unbeliever?
Not really. An anonymous melodrama singled out for no other reason than it's position within the studios canon, and that is has von. I'm with Sloper on this one.

Glad you enjoyed Blue Bird-- I'll get to South today to honor your promptness.

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 6:39 pm
by Tommaso
I finally re-watched "Birth of a Nation" last night, and as usual, it left me with a big feeling of ambivalence. It need not be emphasized that the film is technically wonderful and has exactly that easy flow that not only keeps your attention awake for more than three hours, but let's you forget that this is not a film from the 20s or even 30s, one of those great Hollywood sagas of later times. That alone is a great accomplishment in itself and one that I rarely, if at all found in other films watched by me for this list, not even in Tourneur. Curiously, this time around (it was the third time I saw the film), I reacted much more allergically to the racism of the film, perhaps because I knew the film well enough to not just uncritically marvel at its accomplishments on a purely formal/aesthetic basis. I also noticed another problem that is possibly directly due to Dixon's novel: whereas the first part is one of those sweeping historical epics that show the great 'run' of things, the second half curiously seemed to 'privatize' history, and actually it is not much more than a simple revenge story with the Ku Klux as some sort of Aryan superheroes and Stoneman as the arch-villain in the end. Somehow I felt a slight letdown after the first part in any case, despite of the still very impressive horserides of the Klansmen.

But the first half gripped me more than before: I found it more amazing than ever how much time Griffith allows himself at the beginning to create what seems to me a very melancholic looking-back to a lost Southern idyll. The film in its initial minutes has almost a pastoral feeling, despite of (or even because) of the inclusion of apparently 'happy' slaves in those moments. Similarly, the great ball scene brought up the most unlikely of comparisons, and I apologize in advance for it, but dammit: it somehow felt to me not so dissimilar to Visconti's "Leopard" in effect, if not in style. I think these early sequences are perhaps among the strongest and certainly the most personal in the film, even though I again found the battle scenes quite amazing for the time; some of them have an almost painterly quality, helped much by the striking red tintings in the Shepard edition. Here, I couldn't help thinking of a Boschian hell in places.

All these marvels don't make me forget the caricature of Stoneman and especially the black people later in the film, though reading the excerpts from Dixon's novel that are provided by Kino on the second disc convinced me that Griffith more or less closely followed the book in this respect. This is not meant as an excuse, of course, but I have always been baffled by the man's stance, not knowing how much he really subscribed to the politics of his film at the time (quite similar to the case of Veit Harlan later on). But the pure fact that this film still is so gripping almost 100 years later secures it a place in the upper half of my list, despite its highly problematic nature.

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:05 pm
by zedz
Tommaso wrote:But the pure fact that this film still is so gripping almost 100 years later secures it a place in the upper half of my list, despite its highly problematic nature.
I find the film simply so vile that no amount of technique can compensate, but I experienced a very interesting conformation of just this point a few years back when I saw DJ Spooky perform his 'revisionist' undercutting of the film Rebirth of a Nation. Spooky went head to head with Griffith with every conceivable dice loaded in his favour, cutting up the film, adding superimpositions and additional material, but the power of Griffith's filmmaking won out. Even with all that distance and conceptual interference, you couldn't help getting caught up in the action of the original film and siding with the wrong side.

Onto more pleasant stuff:

Edison

Well, I had a very pleasurable evening last night making my way through the suggested films, plus a few others that caught my eye along the way. Really, this is an ideal way of approaching such a massive collection for the first time, so thanks to everybody who contributed. This is what I saw:

Boxing Cats - !!! Certainly one of the most striking and bizarre of the very early films, though I think the Dickson Experimental Sound Film still trumps it for oddity. I think this might be a very dangerous film, however, as my cat watched it and less than an hour later was involved in a very brief cat fight (even shorter and more perfunctory than the one in the film) with a neighbour’s cat who had the temerity to slink though the cat door.

The Execution of Mary, Queen of Scots – This was indeed eerily effective, partly because the grunginess of the image helped camouflage the cut, thereby making the morbid illusion all the more persuasive, and giving the movie the underground patina of a snuff film.

A Storm at Sea – I’m always a sucker for the easy awe of ‘big sea’ films. There are some simply amazing ‘around the Horn’ newsreels from the twenties and thirties. This one only really realises what great cinematic material it’s playing with in the last ten or fifteen seconds, when it cuts from the original view – of the deck and a couple of sailors with the looming sea behind them – to an unadulterated, powerfully abstract shot of just the sea, rising and falling, filling the frame.

Pan-American Exposition at Night – Another film of two halves, with the second half – the grounds, neon-outlined, at night, the money shot. Nice, but no Coney Island.

Electrocuting an Elephant – Nothing gets the piquant taste of Mary, Queen of Scots out of your mouth like a genuine snuff film. I already know this film intimately through its co-option and elaboration by noted Elephant Rights activist Alexander Kluge, but unadorned it’s still strange, sad and ugly.

Life of an American Fireman – A bit late weighing in on this one, I’m afraid, but I’m for it. For such a formative film, it retains an air of freshness through some fascinating suggestions of what might have been: parallel, analytical montage, for example. The film’s power for me resides in the unexpected shots (and choices within shots) that co-exist alongside those shots that would become generic. What would have happened if the possible futures suggested by those shots had eventuated, rather than the one in which Griffithian dramatic montage became the norm?

The opening shot, for example, an ‘unnecessary’ prologue that nevertheless inflects what comes after, and which reinforces the film’s titular suggestion that this is the story of a particular person rather than the generalised account of a rescue. The challenge of creating films with generalised or collective protagonists is one which has engaged various major artists of the medium over the years (Eisenstein and Jancso, for two), and this angle on the film suggests another interesting challenge: how to tell the story of a protagonist who is seen almost exclusively in the context of group actions – a real ‘face in the crowd’. Porter’s solution is very tentative, and sort of fumbling, but nevertheless intriguing.

The insert of the hand calmly, carefully pulling the fire alarm. Nothing panicky about it. Doesn’t this seem somewhat sinister? What narrative significance can we read into a single incongruous shot? Quite a lot, of course, and there are entire films predicated on this effect. It’s probably entirely inadvertent, but that doesn’t negate its presence in the film.

And then there’s the very odd, but perfectly valid – and completely intentional – effect of the repeated rescue at the end, which suggests an entire world of different approaches to montage, most of which would henceforth be relegated to the avant-garde. And I’ll also praise the very handsome and complex panning shot in the centre of the film – the second view of the onrushing fire brigade that pans to a completely different composition of the burning house, thereby tying the first and second halves of the film together in a seamless way. Later on, of course, this transition would be effected by a simple cut, but look at the elegance and beauty of what we lose.

What Happened in the Tunnel – I’d seen this before, not sure where. It’s very slight, but I like the idea of a snippet of film that was almost designed to be used subversively – to insert into or follow one of the many ‘train goes through a tunnel’ films that were in vogue at the time.

The Strenuous Life, or, Anti-Race Suicide – I had to see this on the strength of that bizarre title alone, which I still don’t quite get, or don’t want to. It’s a relatively lame comedy, but it’s interesting at least in that the interior used is the very same set found in The Ex-Convict.

The Ex-Convict – An ambitious, and largely effective narrative, but, as with a lot of very early melodramas tackling stories which are more than just a single simple idea, the technique and technology are struggling to meet the demands of that narrative. The obvious example in this film is how hard it is to deliver character information in such long shots – differentiating character and conveying emotion is that much harder, and the filmmakers have to simplify and telegraph a lot of stuff. Also, the dramatic tension of the film is undercut by the spoiler intertitles, which explain the scenes to come rather than being integrated into the narrative flow.

The Kleptomaniac – Has a lot of the same strengths and weaknesses as The Ex-Convict, though both are notable for their progressive stance on issues of social justice.

The ‘Teddy’ Bears – This film illustrates how much more fluent early storytelling could be when riffing on a very familiar story, and this allows the audience to enjoy the details and diversions along the way. I adore the lovely, gratuitous animated interlude, but the framing story doesn’t do a lot for me. The Furry contingent may beg to differ, of course.

A Little Girl Who Did Not Believe in Santa Claus – The storytelling is getting even more fluid and convincing by this point, and this film is notable for its smooth integration of special effects. It also makes you wonder why more Christmas movies haven’t included scenes of children abducting Santa at gunpoint.

The House of Cards – The action of this film is bizarre and bewildering. As far as I can see, Tom is an irresponsible idiot and deserves all he gets, but why the wacky ‘duel’? And why the title? The best part of the film is a gorgeous, unnecessary tracking shot in the middle, which draws our attention to a character who does not figure in the drama at all. Hooray for random shit! This shot is a clear precursor to everybody’s favourite. . .

The Passerby – Definitely some kind of masterpiece. The money shots and those tracking ones that take us into and out of the flashback, but this is satisfying all round. Apfel tackles a story just complex enough to keep things ticking, but not one that asks more than he can easily deliver, and it’s simple enough to allow him a refreshingly leisurely pace with emotional moments, so we actually get a surprising degree of subtlety in the performances, because we can observe dawning realizations, for example, rather than telegraphed shifts in emotional states. There’s also a profoundly satisfying visual structure to the film, which rests every scene or ‘chapter’ in the story around matched compositions of men at foreground tables. It’s a really intelligent and nuanced use of the limited technical means available to the filmmakers. Magnificent work.

The Totville Eye – A very nice, low-key rural comedy, exhibiting a much greater freedom with multiple settings and location shooting and getting in some very nice character variations without over-emphasising them.

The Public and Private Care of Infants – Wow! This disturbing docu-drama was quite an eye-opener. Gregory is right that the context of production gave the filmmakers a lot more latitude with content, and this still packs a punch. Even without that documentary frisson, the dramatic portions of the film are very good – restrained and tough.

One Touch of Nature – The greatest revelation for me. I’d even go so far to say that this is one of the best-looking films I’ve seen from the pre-1920 period. The story is fine, that acting is very good and natural, but this film is completely compelling purely in terms of its mise en scene. Ashley Miller doesn’t just have a good eye, he deploys his camera with much greater freedom than his contemporaries. I’m not talking about anything as obvious as tracking shots, but all the little, intimate details of camera placement: height, angle, distance from his actors, relationship to background. All of these elements are modified from shot to shot for maximum expressiveness, with the result that we get a beautiful, flowing stream of surprising, handsome and unexpected shots. It’s one of the most effortlessly flexible visual performances of the era that I’ve seen. Miller has a gift for composition in depth, and he stages a lot of his action on multiple receding planes. In a couple of instances we even get jaw-dropping deep-focus shots.

The pure technical bravado and visual beauty of the film would probably be enough to earn this film a place on my list, but it gets better when you consider the superbly calibrated leisurely pace of the action (sometimes more narrative is not necessarily better narrative) and the unforced, richly detailed performances Miller draws from his actors. There’s a really nice child performance, for starters. On average, Miller’s working much, much closer to his actors than his contemporaries – lots of medium shots – and this pays off in terms of the subtlety and naturalness of the performances he captures.

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:18 pm
by knives
zedz wrote:
Tommaso wrote:But the pure fact that this film still is so gripping almost 100 years later secures it a place in the upper half of my list, despite its highly problematic nature.
I find the film simply so vile that no amount of technique can compensate, but I experienced a very interesting conformation of just this point a few years back when I saw DJ Spooky perform his 'revisionist' undercutting of the film Rebirth of a Nation. Spooky went head to head with Griffith with every conceivable dice loaded in his favour, cutting up the film, adding superimpositions and additional material, but the power of Griffith's filmmaking won out. Even with all that distance and conceptual interference, you couldn't help getting caught up in the action of the original film and siding with the wrong side.
I've never had this problem fortunately. The racism always came off as so extreme as to be parody (the senate sequence being the most obvious) that I've managed to enjoy the whole of it. In fact the technique is the one aspect i've never fully warmed up to. Simply put I don't think Griffith could direct an action scene even if his life depended on it. The last battle bores me into indifference. I think the similar action scenes in The Agony of the Byzance were much more effective and that's were my epic vote will go to.

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:50 pm
by Tommaso
Interesting, because I also somehow 'experienced' the racism as almost a sort of parody, but in the same sense as Hippler's "Der ewige Jude" (without doubt the vilest film ever made by anyone anywhere) might be cynically described as a 'parody' of Jewishness. Griffith's racism is certainly (and thankfully) several levels below that film, but still it sadly seems to be meant seriously. On the other hand the so-called 'trial' of Gus by the Klansmen is staged in so genuinely frightening a way that one is led to believe that Griffith might have had a little more distance to his subject than one might suspect at first glance.

As zedz says, on to more pleasant, but probably also less significant matters.

Another one re-watched: Benjamin Christensen's "The Mysterious X", which the DFI nonsensically insisted to call "Sealed Orders". This feels a little like Feuillade 'à la Danois', and I'm not so sure anymore whether it really works. There is a curious and uneasy clash between seriousness (the war theme, the supposed extra-marital affair) and the crime mystery here. In a way, the film is not 'pulpy', not frantic enough to rival the French master, although it certainly picks up very much in this respect near the end. That said, there's certainly a lot to commend it: very beautiful mise en scene (especially some interiors), some gorgeous contre-jour photography of the fleet, people walking on the crest of a hill as if we were talking Bergman, and so on. It just simply didn't blow me away as much as it did the first time around, much to my own surprise.

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 3:48 am
by HerrSchreck
I don't want to derail this convo onto Birth of a Nation, but I think there are some points here that bear examining when embarking on an excercise like this, particularly when plunging into the cultural byproducts of a completely different era (not that intellectual smut like that oozed by the repulsive Hippler, or the grotty caricature in display on Grif BoN weren't vile even in their own day, at least to most healthy-minded thinking folk).

To say
I find the film simply so vile that no amount of technique can compensate,
does that mean that, when a man's mind is immersed in halls of preoccupation one deems to be of such a topical foulness-- and this foulness gains accurate expression thru his technique-- that a recognition of his technique, no matter how startlingly revolutionary, is simply not possible?

With all due respect to z (and my respect for him, which he knows, couldn't be more enormous... and I hope this doesn't come off preachy) I think this is a limitation in one's sight. Like an undercover police officer immersing himself into a completely alien world of criminals in which he must, Don Brasco-like, interact, laugh, smile, be affectionate, hug, kiss, engage in mindless daily timepassing activity, all the while seeing clearly taking mental notes re cleverness, talents, intellectual hierarchy, etc, an individual seeking to objectively trace technique and innovation in an art form sometimes must learn to doff one's hat to blazing talent while registering, at the same time, a total distaste for narrative and social preoccupations of a given artist.

The same way it is absurd when Steven Spielberg in Schindler presents hypersimplified versions of Germans 1933-45 (at least party members) as strutting, psychopathic homocidal maniacs all, denying the fact that it was common, completely boring and unspectacular everyday folk capable of love, tenderness, (selective) compassion, who committed the atrocities in the holocaust, it's a similar sort of shortchanging of self in my view when one shuts down the ability to recognize the skill involved in a cornerstone artwork which had such singular influence, simply because of the portrayals the innovative technique renders reflects a flaw-- in BoN's case, racism.. in it's time unfortunately not altogether uncommon in American whites-- in the producer of the artwork, which therefore flaws the artwork for the levelheaded viewer.

For all of the competitive examples that are undoubtedly available for the historian to minimize the importance of Grif's technique (and personally I'm not a huge fan of the film, or Grif, aside from two films, Intolerance and Blossoms, which I do genuinely love) by pointing out those films prior and during its time that exhibited similar if not more beautiful/revolutionary techniques, it was without question a hugely important film, fortunately for the right reasons (that is, aside from the story it tells and the way it renders its characters)... and when you observe various conceits of montage, or watch a climactic race to the finish line finale of the film where the hero comes thru at the last minute by the skin of his teeth, you're watching BoN being made over and over again. The man was a brilliant filmmaker, and he unfortunately deployed his skills and his genius to render some pretty wretched social preoccupations in BoN.

That said, all this goes out the window when simply going thru the excercise "what are my favorite films of the pre-1920's?" But so much of the conversation here is about innovation and significance. It's simply not possible from our vantage point in the 21st century to dismiss BoN when talking about technique-- there's simply not a thing even the most informed cineaste can do about the enormous influence of the film on all the most important filmmakers of the teens, 20's, 30's, etc. Murnau, Eisenstein, Dreyer, Stroeheim, Gance, on and on and on. It tops all their lists and they consciously used it-- and Grif-- as their openly proclaimed point of destination. It's silly even to take a count. It's got to be the most "important," and influential film of the era, and decades forwards. It's just a flat immutable fact.

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 4:59 am
by zedz
HerrSchreck wrote:I don't want to derail this convo onto Birth of a Nation, but I think there are some points here that bear examining when embarking on an excercise like this, particularly when plunging into the cultural byproducts of a completely different era (not that intellectual smut like that oozed by the repulsive Hippler, or the grotty caricature in display on Grif BoN weren't vile even in their own day, at least to most healthy-minded thinking folk).

To say
I find the film simply so vile that no amount of technique can compensate,
does that mean that, when a man's mind is immersed in halls of preoccupation one deems to be of such a topical foulness-- and this foulness gains accurate expression thru his technique-- that a recognition of his technique, no matter how startlingly revolutionary, is simply not possible?
This is an interesting topic, and when writing that I sort of wondered exactly what I meant and how far it would go. I think it's more a case of not being able to appreciate pure technique in isolation, devoid of context and content - and that's something that's been a salutary lesson about this entire viewing project, where trainspotting for technical and stylistic innovation quickly palled in cases where I had no personal connection to the material (or - which may just be the same thing in drag - when the innovation didn't seem to meaningfully enhance the content). However, when I felt it worked, or when I felt it worked for me, I was happy to celebrate technique for all it was worth (to wit, my unexpected response to Cabiria).

But that's not really the case with Griffith and The Klansman, because, as indicated above, at that animal level the film does 'work' for me, which is one of the things I find so appalling about it. (As opposed to, say, The Cheat, which I also abhor on content grounds, but don't find all that exciting stylistically, so it sort of doesn't matter.) And it would be sort of dishonest to pretend that The Klansman is really not all that special stylistically or historically simply to get oneself off the hook.

I actually think it's less that the ideas behind such films are so abhorrent, but that I can't respect a filmmaker who falls for them. Just as I simply can't buy characters in a film who do dumb things simply for the convenience of the plot, I find it really hard to get past a lack of intelligence on the part of a filmmaker. If they're demonstrably dumb in one key area - being a racist asshole or treating the Holocaust in Commando comic terms - I can't really respect their other decisions as a filmmaker, and a pretty composition or a nifty piece of montage simply evokes a 'so what'? If I don't respect the intelligence of a filmmaker, it's very hard for me to respect their work. Of course, in many respects, (my) ignorance is bliss, and there might be some very dumb filmmakers I admire simply because they've been canny not to give the game away in the projects they've undertaken. But the racist attitudes of The Klansman and The Cheat are braindead on arrival. I actually don't think Broken Blossoms is that much more sophisticated in its conception than The Klansman, but it's a hell of a lot more benign, and it's therefore easier to swallow, and in that film - and here's another wild card - the power and craft of the performances add shades of nuance that were probably never there in the scenario. Barthelmess may be performing in yellowface, but he manages to transcend caricature, whereas the black characters in The Klansman wallow in it - shamelessly and shamefully.
It's simply not possible from our vantage point in the 21st century to dismiss BoN when talking about technique-- there's simply not a thing even the most informed cineaste can do about the enormous influence of the film on all the most important filmmakers of the teens, 20's, 30's, etc. Murnau, Eisenstein, Dreyer, Stroeheim, Gance, on and on and on. It tops all their lists and they consciously used it-- and Grif-- as their openly proclaimed point of destination. It's silly even to take a count. It's got to be the most "important," and influential film of the era, and decades forwards. It's just a flat immutable fact.
And I have to agree with this, having gone through so much material from this period. Griffith gets pegged as the 'father of film' because - in terms of narrative cinema as we know it today - he is. Not in the sense that he invented everything, or did everything for the first time, or was necessarily the best at what he did, but because it's his artistic DNA which survived down through the ages. This hit home with me most clearly not from watching any of Griffith's films, but from watching Regeneration and Blind Husbands - films I like better than any of Dubya's, and which are themselves very different from one another and from any of Griffith's features, but which are unalterably post-Griffith, not only in that both Walsh and von Stroheim worked with and learnt from Griffith, but in the way that they both take Griffith's conception of cinema as their starting point and build on top of that. As Schreck notes, he provides a kind of historical bottleneck, with almost all subsequent artists referring back to him, or back to people who referred back to him. You look at any of his contemporaries - such as Feuillade - and if you're lucky you can identify a handful of followers and acolytes, but Griffith gets in everywhere, whether you like it or not.

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 3:53 pm
by myrnaloyisdope
Some highlights of recent viewings:

Die Spinnen - I generally have antipathy towards Herr Lang's silent work, with only the second part of Die Nibelungen really making me gush, so I wasn't optimistic about Die Spinnen. I ended up really enjoying it, it has a sort of Feuillade-lite feel with Ressel Orla assuming the Musidora part of the engaging female villainess. The film hints at a lot of Lang's future obsessions: Asian culture, underground cities, malevolent and secretive criminal organizations. The set designs are marvelous, particularly the underground Chinatown. I also enjoyed the brisk pace, filled with twists, twists, and more twists. I would love to have seen the proposed 3rd and 4th parts of the film.

Hoodoo Ann - A charming and fascinating film with Mae Marsh doing a Mary Pickford-esque turn as an orphan who gets a lucky break and lives with a well-off family in town. Here she finds love in the form of the perpetually boyish Robert Harron. The film unfolds like a typically Griffithian (he wrote the story) pastoral romance, but things change about 2/3's into the film, when Harron and Marsh go to watch a movie. Dazzled by the gun-toting heroine, Marsh plays around with a gun, firing it accidentally leading to the film turning into a small-town murder mystery. It's a really interesting mix of genres and marks a completely unexpected and enjoyable twist that really makes the film stand out. It's very seldom that these pastoral romances find conflict in the accusations of murder hurled upon one of the participants.

When The Clouds Roll By - after reading swo's raves I made sure to get this one in under the wire. I had seen the opening dream sequence on the Unseen Cinema set, and it was a doozy, but little was I expecting the rest of the film to be so outstanding. The film is wonderfully paced, and such a strange and interesting mixture of styles and themes. The general premise of an evil doctor orchestrating someone's life in order to drive them to madness makes me thing of Caligari first and foremost. The dream sequence, as well as the later shots of the turmoil going on inside Fairbanks' brain (in which Reason is attacked by Despair, and Sorrow) are brilliantly conceived. Add to this Fairbanks brilliant physicality which this film displays time and time again. As the film shifts focus from the evil doctor to predictable romantic entanglements, the film is buoyed by Fairbanks larger than life personality and the general charm of Kathleen Clifford as his lover. The film's finale goes off in a completely different direction, as it turns into a disaster flick. A dam bursts flooding every thing in site, and separating the lovers, before they are finally reunited in a brilliant payoff that Buster Keaton would later pay homage to.

An outstanding film.

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 4:42 pm
by Gregory
swo17 wrote:
Gregory wrote:Can anyone tell me how quickly the DFI ships to the U.S., generally? Are they ever as fast as Eureka, or would I probably be looking at two to three weeks?
I don't know about the DFI, but I believe you can get most anything from their catalog at Edition Filmmuseum. I recently ordered some Dreyers from them and they were on my doorstep something like three days later. (As they should be, considering how much the shipping costs.)
Amazingly fast: I placed my order Wednesday night and Friday morning I have the discs in hand. Processing, shipment across six thousand miles, and delivery to my door, all in 36 hours. I guess I got my 14 Euros' worth.

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 8:12 pm
by Gregory
With time starting to run down, I thought a list of suggested Méliès viewing might be helpful. I wouldn't presume to tell anyone which ones to watch or vote for, but I think this is tentatively a good starting place. Watching the whole Flicker Alley set is admirable, but gradually, I would think. I'd hate to see anyone else OD on Méliès. It would be equally a shame if anyone put aside the entire box just because it's so long. I'd hate to see Trip to the Moon (and only that) make the list due to the influence of its canonical status. The Magic of Méliès program on The Movies Begin might seem like a logical second choice to the box set, but it's an odd program. For starters, why is it limited to 1904 and after? I think 1899-1903 was his best period.
So here is about two and a half hours of Méliès (plus a couple from the late period), which spread over three or even four evenings should be delightful. If anyone thinks I've left out something essential (as I probably have), by all means offer a recommendation. A caveat to anyone new to Méliès: the incredible inventiveness and magic of his films happened almost exclusively in the foreground; the static camera and backgrounds are part of the bargain, so it's best to accept that going in.
Disc 1
160-162 – Lune à un mètre/Astronomer’s Dream
206-215 – Affaire Dreyfus/The Dreyfus Affair (all chapters count as one film for the list)
298-305 – Rêve de Noël/Christmas Dream
332-333 – Chrysalide et le papillon/Brahmin and the Butterfly
361-370 – Barbe-Bleue/Blue Beard
382-383 – Homme à la tête en caoutchouc/Man With the Rubber Head
Disc 2
399-411 – Voyage dans la lune/Trip to the Moon
462-464 – Puits fantastique, le/Enchanted Well, The

465-469 – Auberge du bon repos, l’/Inn Where No Man Rests, The
473-475 – Sorcier, le/Witch’s Revenge, The

476 – Oracle de Delphes, l’/Oracle of Delphi, The
479-480 – Mélomane, le/Melomaniac, The

483-498 – Royaume des fées, le/Kingdom of the Fairies, The

499-500 – Chaudron infernal, le/Infernal Cauldron, The

501-502 – Revenant, le/Apparitions

503-505 – Tonnerre de Jupiter, le/Jupiter’s Thunderbolts

510-511 – Bob Kick, l’enfant terrible/Bob Kick the Mischievous Kid

512-513 – Illusions funambulesques/Extraordinary Illusions
520-524 – Lanterne magique, la/Magic Lantern, The

525-526 – Rêve du maître de ballet, le/Ballet Master’s Dream, The

527-533 – Faust aux enfers/Damnation of Faust, The
593-595 – Sirène, la/Mermaid, The

Disc 3
641-659 – Voyage à travers l’impossible/Impossible Voyage, The

740-749 – Raid Paris – Monte-Carlo en deux heures/Adventurous Automobile Trip
Disc 4
936-950 – Tunnel sous la Manche ou le cauchemar anglo-français, le/Tunnelling the English Channel

And a couple from the late period:
Disc 5
1536-1547 – Hallucinations du Baron de Münchausen, les /Baron Munchausen’s Dream
Pathé – A la conquète du pôle/Conquest of the Pole, The

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 8:38 pm
by swo17
Illusions fantasmagoriques/The Famous Box Trick from Disc 1 of the FA Méliès box will be making my list.

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 10:33 am
by Tommaso
Last night I treated myself to a nice Fritz Lang double bill. Well, sort of.

"Hilde Warren und der Tod" (1917)
This was only scripted by Lang, but directed by the fabulous Joe May, starring his wife Mia in the title role (Hilde Warren, that is). This film, in which an actress is visted by visions of death, is not a horror film, but basically foreshadows Lang's later efforts at effective pulp. Lots of crime and 'mondaine' lifestyle involved here and impeccably filmed by May, but still the film looks somewhat beyond your typical 1910s popular serials. The figure of Death here is not the stately old man as which he is depicted in "Der müde Tod" or later, in Wysbar's knockout "Fährmann Maria", but has a particularly gaunt, almost ghoulish quality. The end of the film is considerably dark and very gripping (and slightly reminds me of the end of May's "Asphalt" in some respects). Perhaps not a great film, but it's pretty cool, and it's almost indispensible for getting a grip at the development of the young Lang.

"Harakiri"(1919)
One of the earliest surviving Langs, made at around the time of the first "Spinnen"-film. This is easily the best of Lang's pre-"Der müde Tod" films I'd say, and also pretty unusual for Lang as it doesn't feature his usual pulpy themes. Instead, we get a very sensitive adaptation of the 'Madame Butterfly'-story with Lil Dagover (ravishingly beautiful) as the main character, here called O-Take-San. Right, this is all set in Japan, though played entirely by German actors and of course filmed in Berlin (I suppose). It doesn't matter, as Lang and his set designers manage to wonderfully re-create Eastern settings. The film really is a feast for the eyes, not just as far as the lavish interiors and costumes are considered, but also with respect to the wonderful outdoor photography of 'Japanese' gardens. Or those beautiful shots of Dagover on the shore, waiting for her lover to return.

I admit I have a liking for such 'exotistic' films, but I find this far better than, for instance, Ophuls' "Yoshiwara" (though nothing tops Lamprecht's "Prinzessin Turandot" (1934) in this respect; but I digress..). Still, I think this is not a simple matter of style over substance, as the story is very believably played and has enough depth to make this worth seeing in any case. It certainly also makes for a good comparison to "The Toll of the Sea", another 'Butterfly'-adaptation, and played by Anna Mae Wong (eligible for the 20s list only, of course).

"Harakiri" has been (and probably still is) floating around in a very bad-looking copy based on a print found in the Netherlands film museum. But this print has now been very beautifully restored, tinted and given a new score by Aljosha Zimmermann, one of his very last works recorded shortly before his death a few months ago. It was shown this way recently on French TV, which is the version I watched, and which now also floats through the backchannels. Try to get that one, of course; but if that isn't possible, I'd even suggest to see the unrestored version; the film worked its wonders for me even in that form. Fingers crossed that someone sees sense and releases that beauty on dvd soon.

Re: Pre 1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 12:11 pm
by lubitsch
I agree on Harakiri, it's a rather nice film, surprisingly sensitive stuff from the master of pulp.

Since there has been actually very little discussion about Herr Arne's Treasure I want to put forward why this will be the film that tops my list. I think it's one of the rare cases where you get a a historic film which doesn't cheat regarding the historic distance between us and the ages long ago with their very different values. So we have something like an old woodcut with long titles and alien characters, the protagonists we are introduced to at first are lost in a foreign land and try their best to escape this frozen hell, but murder and rob their way out. Then we learn to know a tender young girl and a love affair blossoms which leads to certain expectations for the viewer about the redemptive power of love which aren't wrong
Spoiler
but aren't right either because the young girl dies in a most shocking way when her lover uses her as safeguard against the spears of his pursuers. The film doesn't chose either a simple affirmation of love nor does it wholly condemn Sir Archie.
Naturally there's no classic without powerful images and the Swedish landscapes help immeasurably, the wholen barren, frozen area is impressive enough, but the frozen ship (which reminds one very much of South) and the procession at the end are even more impressive. Stiller is also very good at establishing a mood with the slow prowling tracking shot when the guard makes it rounds, the following grim murder and escape, the visions of the old woman and the whole atmosphere of oppressive desperation that hangs over the film like a dark cloud supported by the heavy blue and red tints. It was a good idea to base the story on the escape of the mercenaries and to give it narrative drive this way otherwise the film might become too static. Finally I like even some small things like Elsalill's dress with its form and simple decoration, so this is a perfect film for me.

As for Maurice Tourneur, why will he place with two features in my top five? It's because like his son, I see a calm artistic presence, assured not calling attention too violently at himself, when the visuals get powerful, the story gets subdued and more emblematic and vice versa. With Tourneur I have at almost any shot the feeling that he has calculated them for compositional harmony and quiet beauty, but he isn't always advertising it. The stories best suited to him are gentle idylls like The Wishing Ring and fables like The Blue Bird, I was rather disappointed by Alias Jimmy Valentine and the Pickford films which while fine are not her or his best which might be attributable to the clash of their intents and personalities, she being the lively girl, he the quiet artist though they met on certain terms in aiming at superior picture values.

Obviously Tourneur has a field day when he can stage all kind of elaborate images in The Blue Bird with veils, silhouettes, lighting effects and stage design and these pictures have no rivals in the era before Caligari (compare it to the rather flat and uninspired imagery of Cinderella or the early Oz films from the 10s). But he's equally impressive when he treats the simple but nevertheless grave things in life like the meeting of the children with their grandparents where the camera tracks into the house and observes them being happy together before the young girl asks where all the dead sisters and brothers are which then immediately walk down the stairs and it's half a dozen which gives you an eerie feeling how a high child mortality is reflected here countered however by the famous scene towards the end where the babies are carried away on a ship.
So Tourneur understood well what his strengths were and therefore quit Hollywood when it began to strangle him instead of burying himself in more and more grandiose projects like Griffith whose real strengths shine in Broken Blossoms, the modern episode in Intolerance, True Heart Susie, A Romance of Happy Valley or the pastoral shorts like The Country Doctor and not in all the epic melodramas he made. As for The Wishing Ring Tourneur surpassed Griffith' achievements in this long dead genre, the rural romance in bypassing the melodrama Griffith never could resist even if he had appealing characters. Tourneur needs only a slight narrative pretext about the falke wishing ring and otherwise trusts some lovely shots, some funny moments, his cute characters and the film moves along breezily and airily. The performances are genuinely funny and at the same time completely restrained, he's arguably the most modern actor director of the 10s.
It's not easy to describe a film whose beauty lies in so many small pleasures like seeing the young man sitting atop a beach, smoking a pipe while a boat sails along at the top of the picture. But it seems to me that Tourneur could deal with this incredible difficult task of making this idyllic fantasy alive and airily light without being sentimental or mawkish.